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Why did he just get fired? ...

How many stops did he register? How many yards rushing did we give up to his side of the ball in the 10 games he played.

I don't think you want to argue this one, bud. He was garbage.

Don't know really... Scapegoat?

*L* ... not gonna argue with U ... don’t have the time to go down all the rabbit holes it requires to have a convo with u ... ...

He wasn’t close to garbage ... not even close ... he was VERY GOOD against the run IMO ... shocker, we disagree ... *L* ...

He’s still an above average DE in this league ... guys like him don’t grow on trees ...

IF we truly want to win next year he will still be here ... we could do a heck of a lot worse ...i agree he wasn’t worth 15 mill ..... but we have way BIGGER HOLES to fill and have more than enough cap space to keep him and not CREATE ANOTHER HOLE ...

1. Chad Thomas is nowhere near the player Olivier Vernon is. PFF had Chad Thomas ranked as the worst edge player in the league last year.

2. How many players available in the draft or free agency can replace Vernon's production?

From an article in The Ringer....

The end of Phillips’s tenure in L.A. is not a surprise. Multiple reports in December suggested Phillips and the team were going to split this offseason, though Phillips dismissed them as rumors. Robinson speculated that the split may be occurring in part because of differing defensive philosophies. Phillips believes in his one-gap scheme that emphasizes players being good at their fundamental responsibilities. McVay may want flexible defensive approaches tailored to specific opponents. To fill the defensive coordinator job, McVay could promote assistant head coach and linebackers coach Joe Barry, who came with McVay to Los Angeles from Washington in 2017.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2020/1/6/2...ive-coordinator

So we are going to hire a 99 year old DC?

Why not dig up his dad and make him head coach?

We elect presidents in their 70's. Wade is 72.

Ty sir ...

The bolded part could be a MAJOR MAJOR DRAWBACK for the analytic crew ...

j/c:

Interesting enough Joe Woods ran a variant of Wade Phillip's Defense when he was promoted into Wade's job in Denver.

I wonder if Wade might be in the running for a similar job as Kubiak had in Minn and be Assistant HC/Defensive advisor?

Well I'd love to hear what was up with Wilkes D last year - because it sure stunk up the joint in many many games. It was impressive when we had a bunch of injuries and we came out and did well against the Ravens and Rams ... then we got our "stars" back and healthy and we took a giant dump against bad teams with rookie or 3rd string QB's.... I would have placed a lot of money that Wilkes had no shot to stay so color me surprised.

Wilks couldn't keep the defensive locker room in check.

It kinda seemed like he was just "there" at the end of the year.

I get that Freddie may have lost the team but Wilks didn't seem to do anything to keep people interested.

What does everyone know about Woods? I wonder if he would bring bring what Salah has to the table. That would be pretty cool and a really savvy move by Stefanski.

He knows that we almost hired Salah for his D schemes so bring in the next best guy from that same system.

I think he should go, but I will say that Wilks handled the banged up secondaries really well, but when his Dline fell apart that was it. The defense was built around our talent on the line. When Vernon went down and Garrett went nuts, the D was barely a speed bump. Plus, at that point our LBs that were starting were mostly rookies (and Scho). We were hurting at places that were meant to carry the D.

If Wilks stays it will reek of Haslam .. I will throw in the towel early !

Again, please be fake news. Why would they pass on Wade Phillips? Unbelievable.

How so?

Maybe cause he's ready to retire at any second?

Give me this Woods dude from Frisco. Been with Steph and under this same Phillips.

What production? the 20 tackles and 3.5 sacks in 10 games? Where or where are we going to find THAT production

I would also say and add, if Freddie gets blame for the way player acted, then Wilks should hold some of that blame too. A lot of the distractions and issues this year came from Defensive players.

I was not impressed with Wilks, AT ALL.

If I had a top three in an order...I would say:

Phillips
Woods
Wilkes

I don't see any other DC's possibilities that would jump them. Woods is the most intriguing to me. He has an age advantage over Wade...and we may get a similar Defense...he also is doing a good job with San Fran's DB's. So the gap between Woods and Philips is not large for me.

With all the issues Wilkes went through concerning personnel, I feel his year is a mixed bag. What he was able to do with a lot of backups was impressive at times. But some of the let downs like the Denver Game, the 2nd Pitt game, and such leave me wanting.

Probably just wise to move on from last year. I wouldn't want to be anchored to anyone outside of ST coordinator who apparently is staying. Don't let the FO pidgeon hole you KS!!

Agreed. Start fresh. I'd like to see us move on from Wilks also.

j/c

I think Wade Phillips might be at a point where he's better off in an Al Saunders sort of role. Have him focus on the DL (where he was a position coach with the Oilers way back in the late '70s) and help out Stefanski as a sounding board (and Joe Woods, too.)

Admission : Anytime I get a chance to use Haslams name or Blame him for all the troubles in the World , I do ! ..lol

I would guess if He can salvage some of these contracts he has been eating , he would .. He must be tired of paying for all his Coach fails .. I think he ( along with some on the board ) are in excuse mode with Wilks. ( hurt players ) . I think his scheme 4/2 zone is his down fall . Ward and Greedy in zone , not man .. The middle of the field being exposed game after game .. Most teams ran on us no matter who was on the field. In my eyes he is a classic example of a round peg , square hole .. Don't forget , I have Old eyes !

j/c:

Random thoughts in my head regarding our D and San Frans, e.g Wilks vs Woods, etc.. -

Both D's are predicated and built on having a monstrous front 4. Ours wasn't in their league when everyone was healthy; it certainly wasn't going to achieve similar results with Vernon injured and Garrett suspended.... so, what would have anyone think that Woods or anyone from San Fran would do better with what is here given that the system will be similar?

Taking that into account, keeping Wilks and beefing up the talent and depth on that line can make plenty of sense ... IF we're (those in the know inside Berea, that is) are certain that the single largest point of failure was lack of personnel.

I do agree with waterdawg, though, on the use of Greedy and Ward. Having them play so much zone and coaching them to NOT play the ball is just asinine. Both were ballhawking cover corners in college, accustomed to being left on an island; it's what got them drafted so highly..... whatever we employ should regularly take advantage of those abilities. Period.

I generally don't like to see people fired, but I don't see what Wilks did that would make a case for his being retained. His defense gave up 30+ points 6 times last year, 3 times before Myles' suspension. His defense gave up 102 points in the last 3 games (34 ppg). We lost games to 2 teams playing inexperienced UDFA QBs, and another to rookie QB Kyler Murray. Twice, his defense gave up not one, but two scores to the opposing team as the 1st half came to a close. A big part of that has to be put on Kitchens, but the fact remains that rarely did our defense stiffen up and make a play they really needed to.

As much as it seems to pain some people to think about it, there are times when the answer may be a simple one. Sometimes it isn't about who you want to fill a coaching position. It's about who wants to fill that coaching position for you.

All good and factual points. Wilks resume for this past season doesn't look too good does it? I think a change is warranted.

Whatever is (or isnt) happening the organization has been pretty good at keeping things quiet.(still) That alone is a huge difference from everything else they've done under this ownership.

You lack understanding in what you are talking about.

Maybe he didn't get sacks, but neither did Garret when OV WASN'T in the game.
Is it possible that he provided support rather than production?

Myles had 13 sacks the year prior, he got plenty of sacks with out Vernon.

He also was getting blown up in the run game, failed to provide really any pressure on the Qb, and was paid 15 million to do so.

Vernon made more this in salary then Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Calais Campbell, and tied Khalil Mack.

I think we can get better someone with better production value. I certainly believe Depo thinks so as well

I don't argue that he wasn't worth the $$, but I also don't think he was a bum either.

He's absolutely not a bum and anyone that asserts otherwise has not been paying the least bit of attention to this team. No, he did not light up the almighty stat sheet, but he had impact.

I'm late to this party but I'd say Vernon was one of the top 3 defenders on this team last year.

Does anyone have stats or a link to a site like PFF to see what they thought? I'd be curious.

he produced at a million dollar rate for a 15 million salary. That to me is garbage.

I very much so think that guys like Vernon were on stefanskis mind when he said production is required.

Myles Denzal Schobert , Sheldon Richardson, were all better.

Someone posted early about "player grades" chart, they had baker as having an "above average" year. Ill take the eye test over those any day of the week.

Vernon - when healthy - was not spectacular but was disciplined and did his job. He may not have had many sacks - but I bet he had a pretty good pressure ratio... And while he absolutely did not deliver a performance equal to his salary, replacing him isn't as easy as snapping our fingers.... I'd bring him and his huge salary back unless we actually sign someone better. Downgrading just for the sake of saving $$$$ doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

Myles Garret PFF Grade: 86.5

Olivier Vernon PFF grade: 80.4

Sheldon Richardson PFF garde: 73.9

Denzel Ward PFF grade: 69.9

Justin Burris PFF grade: 69.5

Damarious Randall PFF grade: 69.3

Morgan Burnett PFF grade: 67.8

Sheldrick Redline PFF grade: 66.4

Joe Schoebert PFF grade 59.1

Larry Ogunjobi PFF grade: 56.0

Greedy Williams PFF grade: 54.6

Chad Thomas PFF grade: 47.8

Mack Wilson PFF garde 42.9

Pro Football Focus Grading Scale:

Elite: 95-85
High Quality: 84-75
Above Average: 74-65
Average: 64-55
Below Average: 54-45
Poor: Below 45