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I knew Vernon was higher than anyone would like to admit, but having him over Richardson seems questionable to me. There are several more interesting rankings as you go down the list.

I think that between the you-know-what-show that was our team this year, the nagging injuries (to him and others) and being in a new D, the fact that we're not hurting for cap room should allow him to come back for another year and prove to us and the decision makers that last year wasn't him.

mgh put my feelings on Vernon really well above.

I thought Schobert and Wilson were definitely better than that - I know they graded high in coverage and low at run D.

What about Baker? What was his actual year end grade? I know it was woeful after 6 games and got better at the end of the year. I am shocked that he is "above average" in the chart included earlier since that was allegedly on 2019 play.

Baker Mayfield PFF grade: 73.5

Seems high considering the whole year's performance. I know I saw individual game recaps with him in the mid/high 40's. draggin that average up is hard.

That said I think PFF is utilized by most or every NFL team and is respected within the NFL ...

yeah, Damarious was wayyy better than Joe S. . . .

Baker would also be 3rd rated on this list....

I always had to laugh when a guy who played 2or3snaps was rated 30points higher than Schobert.

Randall is way better than the grade he got.

There was 3-4 TD's that he was yelling at CB's last year for not covering their guy and he was covering someone else or was playing zone shaded to the other side of the field. I'm sure these counted against him.

I'm not sure you understand how PFF grades players. You're comparing two different positions. That's not how this works.

Take it up with them!

PFF may not be the be all end all to evaluate a players performance but it is a legitimate data point.

DePodesta and Stefanski absolutely will be looking at these numbers as we evaluate personnel this offseason.

I'm willing to bet Baker's PFF rating this year is middle of the pack in regards to starting QB's. His QBR I believe was 19th this year.

Don't be surprised if we let Joe walk. I love Joe as a person but he simply isn't big enough or fast enough to justify a big contract.

Ogunjobi was a non factor this year as well. I know he isn't super expensive but we also could look at moving him this offseason.

I personally believe that looking at QBR / PFF rating for a QB is more telling than passer rating and completion percentage.

I personally believe watching the game is more telling, myself. *shrugs*

Well you obviously didn't do that either. . .

Sounds like you are a "football guy" and not an "analytics" guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkdES79PysI&feature=youtu.be

A lot of Baker's struggles this year were because Freddie kept calling plays with a high degree of difficulty.

Couple that with...
1) OBJ and Landry not 100%
2) A poor offensive line with the wrong or risky protections.
3) A fat Baker Mayfield

and you get what you saw on the field this past year.

I thought PFF grades were performance based.

They are. And they are trusted by many/most NFL teams.

Strife seemed to suggest that there were other factors that entered into the PFF grades that I certainly didn't think were applicable.

They are performance based.

And they are more accurate indicators of performance in my opinion. More accurate than passer rating or completion percentage at least.

When it comes to passer rating and completion percentage, Baker looks horrible.

When it comes to QBR and PFF, Baker is average to above average. I'm just saying looking at those stats are a better representation of his performance than passer rating and completion percentage.

There are other factors that can make these numbers go down like always executing high degree of difficulty throws.

The PFF grade certainly isn't the end all be all stat, it just happens to be one of the better ones.

You see this where the issue is.

What, did you watch last year that says or screams Baker was average to above average? He had a pathetic year, which he even admits too.

in 2 more games than his rookie year with OBJ on his team, he only had 102 more yards. He had 5 less TDs, and 7 more INT than the previous year. He also only had 7 more completions even though he threw 48 more passes.

Watching him throw INT at ever single crucial point in a game or on a last drive - doesn't scream above average.

Which is the reason I said, I watch the games instead of watching some data site say he was above average, when literally every single person (including Mayfield) agrees that he was very very very poor last year.

Nothing about Bakers performance last year was above average.

I agree.

That said, I think it was a cluster on O since camps. I don't think that the players knew what they were doing.


Oh....you seem to have fallen back in to a reasonable mode of posting....Kudos

Good to have you back.

There’s no doubt a lot of players didn’t have the reps/mental concept of what was going on... I dont know where the blame falls, but we were in week 16 and Landry is pointing to OBJ where to line up

I think the entire offensive side of the ball was one giant poo show last year and we only know like 2% of what happened.

There was multiple different games when even the announcers were waving about Mack Wilson and his tape...ditto with Scho...I think (more so Scho) played better than the given grade...Mack shadowed and "rover" spots often, not sure how they grade that. Years ago when PFF was coming relevelant, Vers and I had a good convo on how skewed some grades are...Sheldon Brown was abused on the field and boards (old forum back then) and somehow he was according to PFF the 16th best CB in the game and had a stud rating...the grades they give, can be useful...But I never rely on them that much.

I always liked S Kenny Vaccaro...Back when he was a Saint, he had the highest coverage grade of any CB or S in the slot...The grade would make you assume he was the best coverage CB in the league...while he was merely just successful when sliding down the cover or provide top protection on the slot in the limited amount they sent him over. Just a skewed rating imho...But a good-very good safety nonetheless.

I think this would be foolish.
In a down year, he was still a solid starter. At the very least, he is a Plus rotational guy. He is precisely the kind of player you keep and then get better talent that moves him into a rotational position.

Agree 100%. And his cap number is $1,243,185 in 2020. There is no reason to move on from Ogunjobi at all.

I agree. I expect some roster purge, but not massive, but who knows?

If these guys are as smart and as focused on information and results as they purport to be, we might *finally* see guys that aren't going to dump talent just because someone else brought it in.

No need for a purge ... finish the job KJ didn’t get a chance too ... build off the foundation he left ... no need for a purge just the normal moves and a few lets call them “coaches choices” moves ...

Fix the OL, get a FB .... re-sign Joe, find a FS to take Randall’s place and we’ll be good to go as long as Kev doesn’t turn out to be Freddie’s twin ...

The problem wasn’t talent last year ...

Only time the roster truly needed a purge was when Mangini had 43 special teammates on his roster. Rest have been resets because they wanted their guys.

Nature if the beast, I would guess we will see about half the roster churned once again.

You would think,that as many times as we've seen it,that everyone should be expecting a roster purge.
The new people always want their "guys"

Before this is over, people may very well wish Dorsey was given a second chance to pick a HC.

Not me.

Only menZas.

Let's wait until we see all of the evidence before reaching a verdict.

It's moot. Dorsey was given the option of staying in a reduced role and he chose to move on.

Dorsey wasn't choosing a new head coach, he wanted to keep Kitchens. Even *I* think that was a bad idea and I have continually been vehemently in the corner of us needing to FINALLY establish some sort of continuity.

Dorsey is a control freak that couldn't do his job without owning full control.... so, he's out. That's no knock on him, he brought lots of quality talent to us. He also made some colossal blunders in that same regard, though, so it's not all sunshine and rainbows.

I wish he was still part of the scouting department, but I'm GLAD he isn't in charge of contracts for players nor is he involved in picking the coaching staff.

well said. This is where I've landed as well.

I tend to agree with you for the most part. The only part I'm not so sure of, and I'm not sure how anyone else is frankly, is that he demanded sticking with Freddie.

Thus my point about after all is said and done people may wish we had given him a second shot at naming a new HC.

I don't know that he demanded it, I just know that it came out when Freddie was let go that he was in favor of giving Freddie another year.

My guess is that after Haslam fired Freddie against Dorsey's wishes (make no mistake, it is clear that had Haslam not forced the issue, Freddie would still be coach), Haslam then let Dorsey know that he would not be part of the new coach hiring process if he couldn't abide by what the likes of Depo and the rest of the committee recommend. He was, at most, to be PART of the decision, not the sole decision maker.
That is MY guess... the only thing somewhat concrete is that we were told he was offered a "reduced" role.

Dorsey could not accept that, so he chose to leave.
The rest doesn't matter. It's all moot.

Well you know how people are about hind sight around here. And if things go from where they are now to worse, there will be a lot of that.

Let's just hope the direction Haslam has decided to go, which is similar to what he has done in the past, works out better this time.

I agree with you and Purp. We are going to see some, mostly middle down roster guys, but I could see OBJ being traded. That is top of the roster.

But no, I don't want to see good players let go because they "aren't my guys".

I think John released some players he shouldn't have.

I sincerely hope we do not dump OBJ.
I want to see what a REAL offensive mind can do with him and Landry and Chubb and Hunt...... all the things we THOUGHT we were getting last year, and I want to see it all with a repaired offensive line and a defense that plays to truly suffocate the opponent instead of just pretending to choke it while using safe words.

And people wonder why we can't have nice things.