DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns OC / DC Search

Perhaps you should watch another team then,Sanfran might be the team you envision.

Yeah, but where's the potential for self-loathing in doing that???

I'll stay right here where everything and nothing makes sense.

Perhaps you should be made aware of whose sandbox this is.

If you had it your way you would be posting on a San Fransisco message board right now.

No sir.I saw too many bandwagon fans from this area rising out of the gutter when Debartolo owned the team.
Which in turn caused me to hate everything about them.

My point was the PPE actually owns this board. If he followed the 49'ers this would be a 49'ers board. Do you get it now?

For certain we will need a new OC. I was never happy with the Todd Monken hire to begin with. I think that really hurt Kitchen's chances to succeed. Monken is a air-raid guy and that was completely different from what we ran the year before. Also, completely different from what we will be running next year. He doesn't fit so he has to go.

On the other hand, I am hoping Steve Wilks is kept as our DC. I thought the D played pretty well until we lost our best player. I was really happy with how they dealt with losing starters at corner and safety. Didn't lose a beat. It would be nice to have some continuity on one side of the ball. Add a few more players and that D could be really good.

I think the fact that Freddie didn't let Monken run the offense hurt his chances more. Watch Monken's pressers, he is detached and seemed uninterested, as if he had no say in anything.

Those are Big Questions!

Fans live here on the Anti-Island it seems. Thanks for the board, Purp! Being a fan with this team is a trial and a chore for me. But being a fan without our board and your balance would be worse. It's not TrollHaven like some places.

OBJ has got to go.

He is one of those guys who thinks the rules don't apply to him. That is cancerous to a locker room. We talk about building a team culture and here we have this guy who was traded from his previous team because they couldn't stand him anymore, he does all his flashy cleats/watch/social media nonsense but seemingly can't even find the time to learn the playbook enough to even line up properly. This throws a wrench into the offense which is largely based on timing, rhythm, the QB trusting that the wide receiver will be at a specific place at a specific time, and so on.

Then we have all this other nonsense about throwing cash at LSU kids, and smacking an on-duty police officer's behind and then taunting him afterwards. I know you think this is not a big deal, but heed my words from earlier-- he's a guy who thinks the rules do not apply to him and this is just further evidence of that. You do not want guys like that in your locker room. I don't care how good of a route runner he is or how much separation he can get from a DB.

As I said in one thread a while back. Rule number 1 of team building should be: Thou will not win a Super Bowl with a diva wide receiver on the active roster.

I'll go further and say the Browns will never win a playoff game with OBJ on the roster, let alone the Super Bowl.

I just saw the story on NFL network, and they say he was not a NO Police Officer, that he was a Super Dome Public Safety Officer.

That is another way of saying he is a police officer. He is a police officer employed by the Superdome, not the city of New Orleans. But he's still a police officer in the sense that he has a badge, arrest powers, etc. At least that's what I came up with from clicking around.

we went 6-10 with a 1000 yard rusher and 2 1000 yard receivers. it isn't talent. it is discipline. cut the penalties and we win more, scheme doesn't seem as important. i love the zone blocking for the run game though so hopefully we can get an OC that is use to running it so stefanski doesn't have to call plays.

I very much like OBJ on our team.

People claim he is a diva/distraction/etc.

Yet last season he was a great teammate.

He had minimal drama (I don't care about watches).

Most of the drama was media created for the sake of clickbait.

There is a huge business and money in creating drama and clicks.

It's what the media is paid to do.

So, I have no problem with him. Like I said he was a great teammate who did his job.

Light bulb! Light bulb!!!!

Deleted. moved to the tailgate thread

How many folks u know that have been arrested by security guards .... ya, that’s what i thought ...

PERSPECTIVE ... dudes a weenie looking for attention and/or on a power trip ...

Or another way if saying a rent a cop being way overzealous to start with and now looking for 15 minutes.

The guy was just doing his job, and what OBJ did was a crummy way to treat someone. Call me old fashioned, but that still counts for something in my book.

Let's talk football - and how OBJ still hadn't figured out the playbook by the end of the regular season, still couldn't get lined up without being pointed where to go. If that's the kind of player you want on your offense, then you deserve the season you just got.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-odell-beckham-jr-has-been-part-of-the-problem-in-cleveland-browns

Odell Beckham Jr. has been part of the problem for the Cleveland Browns

BY SAM MONSON
DEC 18, 2019

Heading into the season, we thought that Odell Beckham Jr. was primed for a huge season based purely on the potential upgrade at quarterback from Eli Manning to Baker Mayfield. That hasn’t manifested itself, but don’t be lulled into thinking that OBJ is once again the victim of circumstance in a new venue — he is a significant part of the problem.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not placing all of the blame at Beckham’s doorstep. The debacle in Cleveland this year has provided plenty of blame to be shared around, but he needs to own his fair share and be a part of the solution rather than just jumping ship on a quest to find the perfect situation.

Let’s start with the elephant in the room — Baker Mayfield. There is no way of looking at his 2019 season as anything other than a significant disappointment, which is a particular letdown given how high PFF was on him both before the draft and heading into the season. Given all of the data points we had, there was very little reason to expect any kind of regression and, in fact, many of the numbers suggested he was primed for a truly excellent year.

A top-10 QB heading into the season, Mayfield currently sits at 20th in PFF passing grade, behind the likes of Jared Goff and Ryan Fitzpatrick. His accuracy has fallen off, his big-time throw rate has dropped from 7.7% a season ago to just 3.9% this year and he is at the helm of a Browns offense that just can’t seem to get out of its own way.

Mayfield is undoubtedly struggling this season, significantly more than he did a season ago, but he may be receiving a disproportionate amount of the blame. Though his interceptions have spiked this season (he already has three more than his rookie year with two games to play), his turnover-worthy play rate has barely moved (3.1% to 3.3%). That disparity effectively comes down to bad luck and plays outside of Mayfield’s control. Passes that should not be picked off are being hauled in by the defense at a much higher rate than a season ago.

PFF's Mike Renner detailed precisely what has gone wrong for Mayfield this year in this article, but the point of touching on it in this piece is to articulate that, for all his struggles, Mayfield’s numbers are being made look worse by the receiving corps, of which Beckham is the star member.

The most obvious way that Beckham has been a part of letting Mayfield down is in dropped passes. The way we chart drops, by definition, is that every one of these is a pass that should be caught. That doesn’t mean the ball location is perfect, but it means OBJ should have been able to bring it in and improve both the overall production of the offense and his quarterback’s numbers. Every receiver drops the ball sometimes, but not every receiver can say that he made arguably the greatest catch in NFL history the way Beckham can. This is a person whose one-handed warmups and practice catches have become a thing of legend. OBJ finds catching a football as easy as you or I find breathing in and out, so he should have one of the lowest drop rates we have ever seen.

Larry Fitzgerald has six drops over the last three seasons. OBJ has seven and counting this year alone. It’s already the second-highest total of his career and it gives him a drop rate of 9.5% of catchable targets, which is among the worst 10 wideouts in the NFL.

Drops aren’t the only way a receiver can cause passes to fall incomplete, though. Beckham has had multiple targets, even within the same game, that can’t technically be called drops but were incomplete because of his failure to complete the catch. Take the above, which is a perfect sideline pass by Mayfield that drops into Beckham’s hands along the sideline for a huge gain. This is a legitimate big-time throw from the quarterback, and it looks like a clean catch, but replays showed that it took him a couple of attempts to secure; he couldn’t complete possession of the football until after he had stepped out of bounds. These are fine yet critical margins, and they're the difference between Beckham at his best and Beckham in 2019.

When you start adding this type of receiver error into the equation, Beckham’s numbers look even worse. This season, only Michael Gallup has more incompletions due to receiver error.

The final aspect that becomes trickier to untangle is simply getting on the same page with Mayfield in terms of timing and route running. There have been five interceptions thrown by Mayfield when targeting Beckham this season and six when throwing in Jarvis Landry’s direction. Those represent two of the highest seven totals among wideouts. Mayfield’s two biggest stars just can’t seem to get on the same page when it comes to being in the right place at the right time. Obviously, this is something that is impossible to navigate in terms of blame, and it may resolve itself over time. Still, it seems incumbent on all three players to work on a fix, rather than to wallow in the results and look for a way out, as some reports suggest Beckham and Landry are doing.

Beckham is also doing less than ever before with the ball in his hands. In every full season of his career before this one, he has broken at least double-digit tackles and has been regarded as one of the best receivers in football after the catch. This season he sits at just six forced missed tackles, and he is averaging the second-fewest yards after the catch per reception of his career. His PFF grade on shorter throws — even ones on which he was charted as ‘open’ in terms of separation — is the lowest of his career. Again, this is not solely his fault; the scheme is far from helping him break open underneath and Mayfield’s inaccuracy this season is not helping him gain yards after the catch, but his baseline is coming from Eli Manning, another quarterback who rarely blessed him with ideal ball location.

The bottom line is that the Cleveland offense this season has been a laundry list of problems that range from the quarterback to the pass protection to the play-calling to the scheme and to the receivers. It’s not hard to imagine why somebody involved in it would just want to get out of the eye of the storm and head to calm waters, but Beckham (and Landry) need to accept their part of the responsibility for what’s happening instead of acting like they are simply the victims of what is happening to them. Odell Beckham Jr. has been reportedly battling a sports hernia all season, so his lack of standout play may simply be injury-driven, but there is little doubt that right now, he is a significant part of the problem for the Browns and not just a casualty of the situation.

Don't disagree, at all. Completely overblow - doesn't change the fact Odell shouldn't have put himself in that position though.

And the handing out money thing does cause a little issues.

Its another case of Odell being a ME guy. He had to get ODELL on camera, he had to get ODELL in the headlines, instead of letting these kids and his former school take all the glory and accolades of the day - hes tarnished their victory over something that had nothing to do with the game.

Instead of talking about a great win for the school, the only headlines are cigars, money, and a butt slap.

Don't think the NCAA is going not be upset about this. And I absolutely believe the Browns and NFL are going to be upset as well.

Well, they are commissioned officers who are eligible to make arrest from what I heard.

You can downplay the guy all you want, or try to demean him - but the guy had a job that he was trying to do. Maybe Odell can take a page out his book, if he was as dedicated to his craft as much as the "rent a cop" is, maybe he would know where to line up

Great article.

That's not how any of this works.

Did he not know the playbook or were they just running plays on Sundays that weren't in the gameplan for some insane reason? Indications point towards the second option, which is crazy, but also the way it looked during games.

I agree ... it’s how I feel mostly

U have any clue what PERSPECTIVE is ... based off this exchange not even a little bit ... *L* ...

A security guard gets slapped in the butt and u think that’s an arrest-able offense .... Then add to the fact u think i deserve the season we just had cause I’m not OK with him being arrested for slapping a weenie on the butt ... *L ...

And dude ... I haven’t said a word about OBJ and my feelings towards him being on our team but u go ahead and ASSume i wanted him here or still do based off the fact I don’t think ANYONE should be arrested for that ....

PERSPECTIVE ... and i shouldn’t forget CONTEXT ... feel free to to gain some of both ...

edit/deleted: already said what I wanted to say. Moving on.

I will go on record that Diam wanted nothing to do with OBJ when we traded for him.

Slapping someone on the behind to me is very minor action. However, it is an adolescent action and should not be done by a grown adult. JMO

Where’s the apology for putting words in my mouth ... *L* ...

Its a joke ... feel free to *L* ...

But it also isn't an entirely unexpected action when a guy has been drinking and is trying to celebrate a championship.

Your team winning a championship isn't an everyday thing. He'd just spent a season with the Browns. The juxtaposition of the two teams would probably make me want to drink. Heck, just a loose association with the Browns is enough on its own.

Losing affects the players at least as much as it affects us.

Um... it IS an arrestable offense. Agree or disagree with the guys decision to file charges, but don't pollute it with outright false statements.

No apology from me, but I still think you're a pretty alright guy. Hopefully that will suffice.

Maybe we can derail this OBJ thread and talk about the offensive and defensive coordinators, or something.

Actually I do think it would be a good idea to have an offensive coordinator who calls plays. I think it's just usually too much for a first-time head coach to also call plays on top of everything else the head coach is responsible for.

If you're on the team or "one of the guys" celebrating, I agree its not unexpected. But we wouldn't be saying the same thing if he had slapped the butt of a female trainer, or if Erin Andrews was pressing charges would we?

To be fair, regardless of what we think about the guy or the situation, he put his hands on someone that didn't want touched. Doesn't matter the intent, its still technically assault.

I come down more on the side that he didn't know the playbook, or at least he didn't have a good grasp of it. No one else came even close to showing the level of disorganization and not lining up properly than he did. Especially when you compare it to guys like HOdge and Ratley and the random TEs we trotted on the field.

actually, it would be battery, not assault.

Ask Haus where he got his PERSPECTIVE and CONTEXT info from and then follow the links ...

Sorry I forgot to have my lawyer proof read my post ... ..

So OBJ would be OC and the security guard DC ?