DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cont...Football guys did half the job, now it's up to numbers boys to finish the job...

Literally no one thought osweiler was here to play, if you did I am sorry. He was here to simply to buy a draft pick. They played him in the PreSeason hoping to get a team interested to trade for him and get a higher value.

Hue had Cody, Kizer, and Hogan for 17. Hindsight is 20/20, but Kizer at the time was actually and sadly still the best decision to start.

They were in charge. Specifically, Sashi was in charge. He had final say on the roster and final say in the draft (picking or trading), Yet, he weighed several opinions from DePo (analytics), Berry (player evaluation), and Hue (the QB "Guru"). People keep trying to paint this picture (not you) that Sashi locked himself in a room and did his best Mr. Burns "excellent" pose in everything related to the Browns. If anything, that would closely align better with Dorsey than Sashi, IMO. And it's probably a major reason why Dorsey is gone.



One of the fails of Sashi's time here was relying on Hue's "expertise" regarding the QB position. Do people recall when Hue said "the ground shook beneath my feet" for RG3? How about Mike "The Mouthpiece" Silver sharing:

"I talked to Hue about Wentz many, many times pre-draft. Jackson never disparaged his ability. Thought 2 was too high to take him."
9/6/2016

https://twitter.com/chadp71/status/1058143265462067200

Yet, we blame Depo for his comments when I think all of the pronouns used were "we" referring to the organization, instead of "I" referring to his own personal decision or soemthing?

Do we forget the "trust me" comment about Kessler that again, Mike "the Mouthpiece" Silver saying that Hue was pumped, or maybe it was "amped" just after that selection? (Yes, analytics according to the article has a piece of this too)

How about Hue trying to give up a 2nd and a 3rd for McCarron only to have Sashi intentionally nix the trade at the last minute?

It was said from the moment Hue was hired (by both Jimmy and Sashi) that he would have a huge influence on the QB selection and maturation. It was said again in 2017, after people were questioning the plan/process, that Hue would still continue to have a voice about the QB. It was the wrong decision.

The article referenced so many times from Pete Smith has a clear negative tone towards Hue Jackson. If anyone follow him on Twitter, he bashes Hue. He also bashes Dorsey. The tone is certainly skewed in a negative way towards Hue and the disdain for him shines through. I have the same disdain. He was terrible. He might go down as the worst HC in the history of sports and the only thing to match is sucktitude was the constant throwing under the bus and trying to change the narrative to save face...and using media buddies to do so.

Sashi's reliance/acceptance to listen to Hue about the QB was, in the end, a bad decision by him. Along with other choices. However, if Jimmy would have just listened to everyone at the time Hue would have never worn orange and brown. McDermott would have.

Someone else pointed this out about one of the the article's points showing Hue's impact on the QB. I agree with that.

I'd rephrase this to exhibit my own opinion to say that the main reason for the trade was NOT Brock Osweiler or addressing the QB position.

It was for the 2nd rounder.
Period.
Part of asset accumulation mode.

Whether Osweiler was on the roster or not, the Browns were paying his salary for one year.

There was no long-term plan for BO, IMO. Whether or not the plan was to cut him regardless at the end of training camp, I don't know. Frankly, I don't think the FO cared at the time of the trade. They got what they wanted first and foremost....the pick.

If BO would warrant a spot on the roster or not, I'm guessing they were to let the chips fall where they may because they were going to have to pay him anyways for 2017.

In the end, not surprised he was cut.

This is precisely how I feel on the subject.

It's not having it both ways. It's just how it was.

Also true.

Osweiler may have been our best chance to win in 2017. Hue opted for Kizer.

Personally, I thought Kizer was the one who gave us the least chance to win. I hated the pick, but when we made it I was on board. He was a Brown. And he should have never played.

It seems like that was the case to start at QB. Certainly.

But Sashi cut BO. That was his call, which is fine....unless someone threw a temper tantrum if he stayed on the roster, but I'm not sure that was the case.

that what I said, he was here for the draft pick. . . .

But that still doesn't change the fact that AT THE TIME - Kizer was the best option to start.

Bro, you're officially going off the deep end.

I don't know about all that. lol

can you explain "strip down?"

Specific example of what you think is going to happen?

fixed it for you

Correct. Depo didn't have them fired.

He means tear it down and start all over. He thinks Moneyballers have some strange depravity with sweeping everything away and starting over to build something cheaper. He refers to "DePodesta's Moneyball Scheme" as if it's some endless, cycling attempt to convince Jimmy that Moneyball will work if we just trade out some of the people in Berea and start Moneyballing all over again.

In other words, DePo has no interest in building a winning organization, just endless "Moneyballing".

[quote]Depodesta didn't have them fired to win more football games, did he? [/color]

DID HE?

You remember that slump during Depos first two seasons in charge of the franchise...that 1 win AND 32 LOSSES.

What I find interesting...Depodesta is not know for bringing any individual player to the Browns based on his analytics...

...tell me what Depo has done to help the Browns franchise win during the time he running the front office...ANYONE?

Depo is best known as the Moneyball guy from the Browns who declared Wentz wouldn't be a top tier QB. Depo is best known for his poor assessment of football talent.

Ill ask you again, since you decided not to answer.

Depo has never had a season where he was in charge of the franchise, so which two years are you imagining?

He tried to prevent us from hiring Hue. He wasn't listened to; instead, the owner got his choice.

He tried to prevent us from hiring Freddie. He wasn't listened to; instead, the football guy got his choice.

He tried to get us to hire the guy we finally hired this year; a football guy made sure that didn't happen the first time he recommended it.

He developed the plan that gave the coveted football guys more Draft capital and Cap Space to re-launch a franchise than we'd seen since the Expansion Draft.




Tell me... who has ever done more QUALITY work to help this team than him??

can you explain "strip down?"

Specific example of what you think is going to happen?


Who are they going to trade/cut?
Who do you think they are going to draft or trade down with?
Who do you think they will not sign?

Specifics please. I cant have a conversation with you if I don't know where you actually stand and think.

Its one thing to raise you fist and yell at the clouds, its another to present your case with actual information and scenarios we can discuss.

For sure... but if your HC isn't going to use the 17 million dollar man, why not cut him and recoup some of the cost? I'm sure if Hue said Osweiler is my guy this year we would not have cut him. Joe Thomas was convinced this was the case, or maybe he was just hoping that was the case.

1. Yes, but much of that is side-effect of DESIGN for that phase. It isn't the global "every year" plan. Only an utter fool would believe that it is the blueprint for every single year under them, ever.

2. No, pretty much only Hue wanted Kizer. The other talents were judged to be good talents, but we were not a team ready to add a high-level QB, yet.

3. I gave you a list of what he's TRIED to do; but you keep asking an irrational question because the answer is DEPO DOESN'T ADD PLAYERS AT ALL. HE DEVELOPS STRATEGIES AND MAKES RECOMMENDATIONS. HE DOES NOT TURN IN DRAFT CARDS.

He's been off the deep end for awhile now.

Wasn't that McDaniels?

Robert Stalnaker (I have no idea who he is) accepts your challenge...

This is just trolling.

Strip down = not signing Kareem Hunt long term

I agree. Kind of cool, right?

This looks more like CrystalBall than Moneyball. What is this based on, Mac. Just trying to connect the dots here. What outcomes do you expect overall? Not saying you are wrong anymore than I am able to declare you right. Just puzzling this out in the spirit of fairness here.

I haven’t been paying close attention to what has been happening. Can you tell me if I got the basics right?

McDaniels was interviewed and wanted to start from scratch. A report came out that Browns management didn’t think we needed a complete rebuild. Depo’s role hasn’t changed since the day he started. Our new coach does not have to report to the analytics team.

We have a coach and GM who are both football and analytics guys that are both liked by Depo.

Nailed it.

Yup. It's a complete disaster.

None. That isn't and wasn't his job. Depo lives in you head. He is the one causing your convulsions and drooling.

Some fans. The ones that do think it is pretty exciting.


Go to bed before you have a stroke.