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YI learned that I've been better at evaluating HC talent than the FO has been since 1999.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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You just learned that .... u usually catch on much much quicker than that ...
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YI learned that I've been better at evaluating HC talent than the FO has been since 1999. What do you grade Kevin Stefanski?
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I learned that tanking and poor personnel decisions by Sashi, Depo, Berry, etc had a residual effect on a very good GM in John Dorsey.
Of course, I predicted that establishing a losing culture would have long-lasting negative consequences on the Browns.
I consistently maintained that football was a different animal than baseball and basketball due to the number of games played during a season and the time between games. That theory was consistently ridiculed by a certain faction of the board. Of course, they are now ignoring how ex-NFL people are talking about the issues w/establishing a losing culture in football. Instead, they'll post a tweet from a dude in Canada w/34 followers to tell us how bad Dorsey was. LOL
I think this year's team will win quite a few games due to the talent Dorsey acquired. I think they will win a couple less the following year and then things will get ugly again. Players won't be re-signed. Players will be cut. Questionable draft choices will highlight each and every year. The rhetoric will be that the Browns are building for the future and are being "smart." The reality of it is this particular group is as clueless as any one group can be.
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YI learned that I've been better at evaluating HC talent than the FO has been since 1999. What do you grade Kevin Stefanski? I would rather have had Rivera or McCarthy.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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How dare you advocate bringing people here with proven NFL success at their respective positions rather than elevating the flavor of the month!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I don’t believe Andy n Kev were the flavor of the month .... not sure either of them had a sniff elsewhere this off season ... Not saying that as a negative ... IMO its not ... the flavor of the month is 50/50 at best ... Past results don’t guarantee future success .... At lease Kev’s never been fired as a HC .. he’s got that over those two ...
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How dare you advocate bringing people here with proven NFL success at their respective positions rather than elevating the flavor of the month! I agree with experienced coaches, but everyone has to start somewhere. If they selected who they felt was the BEST choice, then I'm good with it. If they selected Stefanski because he'd "fall in line," then it's a horrible decision. How many changes are retreads and fail time and time again?
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Freddie had never been fired as a HC either. Until he was.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Freddie is Ready is right there with ...
DAVID DAVID DAVID
And
BRADY BRADY BRADY
More egg on my face ... thank god i love eggs .. *L* ...
A little math for u ...
Wanna make a bet on who gets fired first ...
I’ll take Kev and u can have Ron and Mike ... u take both cause that will “even” out the thief’s quick trigger finger ... *L* ...
I actually believe this group gets 4 or 5 years .... the thief loves analytics and these are “his” peeps ...
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When it appears as though Haslam uses a dart board to decide who to fire first, no bet is safe. Now I will bet you that none of them get four years. Other than Depo. You know, the guy that always gets paid yet many claim Haslam never listens to. How does that math go again?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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How dare you advocate bringing people here with proven NFL success at their respective positions rather than elevating the flavor of the month! https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...oll#Post1720483In the first poll listed in the above link 45 people voted. Three of them said Stefanski was their first choice.
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I learned that I may have better instincts than Jimmy Haslam LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
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How dare you advocate bringing people here with proven NFL success at their respective positions rather than elevating the flavor of the month! https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...oll#Post1720483In the first poll listed in the above link 45 people voted. Three of them said Stefanski was their first choice. And yet now......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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How dare you advocate bringing people here with proven NFL success at their respective positions rather than elevating the flavor of the month! https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...oll#Post1720483In the first poll listed in the above link 45 people voted. Three of them said Stefanski was their first choice. And yet now...... We have more information?
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We have people convincing themselves that uproven people at both the GM and HC positions are a wonderful idea.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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We have people convincing themselves that uproven people at both the GM and HC positions are a wonderful idea. Probably a little bit of both. Shocking, I know, that fans of a team talked themselves into rooting for the team. It has happened before though! Some people talked themselves into Hue Jackson ( Hue Jackson!) even after he only won one game in two years.
Last edited by cfrs15; 02/06/20 02:31 PM.
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So if you think the hires were bad you don't root for the team?
I don't think anyone actually "talked themselves into Hue Jackson". They did know he had a crappy roster and a crappy QB room to work with though.
The best I actually heard about hue was, "Well let's see if he can do any better with better talent". Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm sure you were. A lot of people try to skew the numbers after the fact.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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j/c...
I learned that after a garbage season, STH prices can still go up.
Mine went up $500 this year!
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Two.
$250/seat.
I sit on a price break. The row directly in front of me went up $500/seat.
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U sit on the bench? ... *L* ... that’s 25 a ticket a game ... guess its not that much ...
What was the previous price?
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No, not horrible, considering they are still overall lower than the league average.
Just funny after a disaster after a year.
Previous cost: $4,000 New cost: $4,500
Let's hope the STH gift is upgraded this year from a pair of socks and 99¢ gloves!
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I learned that I may have better instincts than Jimmy Haslam LOL A comatose frog, about to be pinned to a board, has better instincts than Jimma Haslam.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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What did you learn the most from the last regime failure? jc...
I DO NOT view the last two seasons as a "failure".
I view the last two seasons as "progress"!
Looking at where the Browns have come from over the last 4 seasons, you would have to be blind not to see the progress that has been made.
The Browns have gone from averaging .5 win per season in 2016 & 2017 to an average of 6.5 wins per year in 2018 & 2019.
With "progress" comes high expectation for this newest regime. Another 4 wins per year and the Browns take another step forward...hopefully the playoffs.
Now it is the responsibility of this regime to build upon the progress made over the last 4 years. The Browns roster is loaded with talent, especially on the offensive side...therefore, no need to return to Moneyball.
I view the Browns as a team that has "progressed" from the lowest of lows to a point where 50%-60% of the rebuild is complete...finish the job!
Last edited by mac; 02/06/20 07:03 PM.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I learned that "football" guys make fatal mistakes., such as Freddie
I didn't learn this just now....I know that you have to be able to get along and not storm troop over other people who are trying to help.
Team building doesn't stop with the football players.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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That John Dorsey, Eliot Wolf, and Alonzo Highsmith were a damn good front office. Best in decades. In TWO years' time they got us more talent than every other front office staff did since the return. Combined. Now, we have a complete turn-over of the front-office leadership yet again. Youngest and least experienced GM in history. Part of the 1-15 0-16 crew... Woo hoo! We just let a TON of front office experience walk out the door. But of course, that is best for the team because they were football guys and you sure as hell don't want football guys running a football team. That job is best suited for mathematicians. Did John Dorsey make mistakes? Damn right he did. Name ONE GM that hasn't missed on players or hired the wrong coach at some point... Just ONE. EVERYONE makes mistakes. Yet we still have more FOOTBALL talent on this team that we have had since the return and that is a direct result of John Dorsey, Eliot Wolf, and Alonzo Highsmith as well as the rest of the staff they put together and worked with. A team that John Dorsey had a BIG hand in building just won the Super Bowl. Sure glad we don't have him around anymore. *snicker* It is unfortunate you can't fire the real problem with this team. Haslam. Worst owner in the league. He is starting to make Modell look better... Never thought that could happen.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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I learned that "football" guys make fatal mistakes., such as Freddie
I didn't learn this just now....I know that you have to be able to get along and not storm troop over other people who are trying to help.
Team building doesn't stop with the football players. Well then, thank god they got rid of the football guys. Wouldn't want them around. Of course, John Dorsey had a big hand in building the team that just won the Super Bowl. So yeah, I can see why running him out of town for a GM that is the youngest and least experienced in the league is a huge step up for the team. *snicker* We won't miss him or Wolf or Highsmith one little bit. lmao
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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What did you learn the most from the last regime failure? jc...
I DO NOT view the last two seasons as a "failure".
I view the last two seasons as "progress"!
Looking at where the Browns have come from over the last 4 seasons, you would have to be blind not to see the progress that has been made.
The Browns have gone from averaging .5 win per season in 2016 & 2017 to an average of 6.5 wins per year in 2018 & 2019.
With "progress" comes high expectation for this newest regime. Another 4 wins per year and the Browns take another step forward...hopefully the playoffs.
Now it is the responsibility of this regime to build upon the progress made over the last 4 years. The Browns roster is loaded with talent, especially on the offensive side...therefore, no need to return to Moneyball.
I view the Browns as a team that has "progressed" from the lowest of lows to a point where 50%-60% of the rebuild is complete...finish the job! Nope. Acquiring all of this talent in the last two years was a huge failure. We need to purge any and all talent while collecting draft picks and cap room. Pass on all quarterbacks because they might miss and talk a good game about how winning is still important even though bringing in any talent or spending any money is strictly verboten. Having talent on the roster is a horrible feeling to some of these guys. From the sound of it, a lot of these people prefer returning to having the least talented roster in the NFL again.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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For the record I am not glad John is gone. I had hoped he would stay. He decided he couldn't do that.
My second comment was more on point. He didn't do much for team building beyond selecting football players. It's the same reason he was bounced out of KC.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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We have people convincing themselves that uproven people at both the GM and HC positions are a wonderful idea. John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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We have people convincing themselves that uproven people at both the GM and HC positions are a wonderful idea. John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan The Niners started out 6-10 and 4-12 under Shanahan and Lynch in their 1st 2 years. Does anyone think that the same records would result in a 3rd year under Haslam? (no matter injuries, or any other factors)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So, you're upset that we didn't magically choose to go with a Guaranteed Home Run set of choices at both positions.... man, if only we'd thought of trying THAT at any point in the last twenty years.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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So, you're upset that we didn't magically choose to go with a Guaranteed Home Run set of choices at both positions.... man, if only we'd thought of trying THAT at any point in the last twenty years.
I'm saying that if Shanahan and Lynch had been in Cleveland, and produced the results they did in SF in years 1 and 2 ..... they would have been fired before year 3.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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well, I reckon we'll just have to hope that Haslam has some patience this time around. Not much else to do, regardless of who was hired.
That being what it is, I strongly suspect that as long as there aren't signs of the internal dysfunction that has marked every single regime of the last 10+ years, he will have that patience. The fans and Cleveland beat writers, though, not so much.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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We have people convincing themselves that uproven people at both the GM and HC positions are a wonderful idea. John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan The Niners started out 6-10 and 4-12 under Shanahan and Lynch in their 1st 2 years. Does anyone think that the same records would result in a 3rd year under Haslam? (no matter injuries, or any other factors) Maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe if Baker got hurt like Garoppolo did. Maybe.
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well, I reckon we'll just have to hope that Haslam has some patience this time around. Not much else to do, regardless of who was hired.
That being what it is, I strongly suspect that as long as there aren't signs of the internal dysfunction that has marked every single regime of the last 10+ years, he will have that patience. The fans and Cleveland beat writers, though, not so much. Why has there been internal dysfunction, though? I believe, and have read, that a lot of it starts and ends with Haslam. Why should I believe he will change now? I listen to the pressers for the new HC/GM/etc .... and it is almost always the same garbage. Will it be different this time? Who knows? I won't believe it until I see it. I wonder what Haslam will do if we wind up winning only 4 games this coming season?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What did you learn the most from
the last regime failure?
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