Because people have to eat and have electric for TODAY. Like I have said time after time, after time. I have no problem with the world switching power sources once everything is in place for a smooth transaction and the market is ready for it. What I have the problem with is the government forcing people to do what they want. Plus fracking isn't safe either.
If you would prefer to send our youth into the mines and die, if that's a part of what you promote with coal, then I'll never join you. We have a lot of other sources for energy "today" without sending kids into the mines to die and get black lung.
That's the whole picture with climate change and the actual question that surrounds it.
Are we willing to risk the deaths in the future for the greed of today? For many that answer is yes.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Fracking has been linked to preterm births, high-risk pregnancies, asthma, migraine headaches, fatigue, nasal and sinus symptoms, and skin disorders over the last 10 years, according to a new study.
The researchers noted in the study that it's still too early to study some health impacts, like cancer and neurodegenerative diseases, because they take a long time to develop.
As a fossil fuel, natural gas extraction and use is contributing to climate change, of course," Gorski said, "but before conducting this study, I didn't realize the amount of of evidence we have that it may be even worse than coal."
She pointed to several studies suggesting that if fugitive emissions of methane from the equipment used to transport and store natural gas exceed more than 3 percent, natural gas use would have a greater climate change impact than coal. She also said there's evidence to suggest that the industry's methane emissions well exceed that 3 percent.
All from the link I provided above. Your safe gas isn't so safe.
Linked to? Yet coal mining has been proven to cause black lung. And I never said natural gas was safe. I said it's cheaper. And was cheaper before Obama was ever elected.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Linked to? Yet coal mining has been proven to cause black lung. And I never said natural gas was safe. I said it's cheaper. And was cheaper before Obama was ever elected.
Go back to the link I posted on Page five Bro. It includes a chart showing the cost of a Million BTU's for the Power companies. It was not even close. Coal was way cheaper than gas still in 2008 and 2009. and Just what year was Obama elected again?
Linked to? Yet coal mining has been proven to cause black lung. And I never said natural gas was safe. I said it's cheaper. And was cheaper before Obama was ever elected.
Go back to the link I posted on Page five Bro. It includes a chart showing the cost of a Million BTU's for the Power companies. It was not even close. Coal was way cheaper than gas still in 2008 and 2009. and Just what year was Obama elected again?
Coal is dead. Gladly. Mountain top removal is going the way of the boomer. Couldn’t happen to a more disgusting industry. Couldn’t happen fast enough. Now if we can kill fracking we could get on with moving into the future of clean energy sources. Just have to scrape the rest of the boomers off our shoes to make it happen.
Between 2007 and 2015, shale gas prices dropped almost in half, positioning natural gas to outprice coal mined in four of the five U.S. coal regions…the benchmark gas prices ("Henry Hub" prices) in the past four years [have been] cheaper than the coal of the two regions in Appalachian for over 88% of the months. Further, gas has been cheaper than the coal of Appalachia, Illinois, and the Rockies for over 57% of the months. Even the cheapest coal, in Wyoming's Powder River Basin, competes poorly in the great population centers east of the Mississippi once rail transport of $0.03 per ton-mile is considered. That prompted investment in pipelines and gas storage infrastructure that have made gas even more competitive.
Consumption of coal continued to grow under those 1990-era EPA rules until 2008, and then went into steady decline, dropping by 23 percent from 2008 thru 2015.
The data show the drop in those years to be correlated with the shale revolution, as natural gas production increased by a factor of more than 10 and its price dropped in half, the researchers say. And, due to the continuing—and in some cases accelerating—technological and economic advantages of gas over coal, the decline in coal is expected to continue at least decades into the future.
"Some people attribute the decline in coal-generated electricity to the EPA's air-quality rules, even calling it 'Obama's war on coal,'" said Mingguo Hong, associate professor of electrical engineering and computer science at Case Western Reserve and co-author of the study. "While we can't say that the EPA rules have no impact—as, for example, discouraging the building of new coal power plants because of the expectation that tougher air-quality rules will clear the courts—the data say the EPA rules have not been the driving force."
Hong, co-director of the Electricity Systems Research Lab at Case Western Reserve, and Walter Culver, a founding member of the Great Lakes Energy Institute Advisory Board at the university, say the data show that shale-gas competition is what's been hurting coal as of today. They expect that, as wind and solar sources of electricity continue to improve, they will be tough competitors to coal in the not-distant future. …
"If you're a power plant operator and you see gas supply is continuing to increase and natural gas can do the job cheaper—by a lot—the decision to switch from coal is pretty easy," Culver said. "As we look toward the future, we see no natural mechanisms that will permit coal to recover," Culver said.
Largely thanks to the shale gas revolution, the U.S. does appear to be treading Ausubel's light path toward energy decarbonization. Coal got mugged by natural gas, not regulators.
The last link has a graph showing that natural gas became much cheaper starting in 2009.
It seems as though we aren't the only one's that debate the merits of both sides. It also appears far more sources indicate is was the market rather than some "Obama war on coal" that caused this.
All one really needs to do is look at how many companies switched, or were in the process of switching over to natural gas before Obama regulation ever came to be in order st see the clear picture here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
"The researchers then created a model that accounted for an array of variables, such as daily power demand, and ran it to see how power use would have changed in 2008 if gas had been available at 2013 prices and wind power had been available at 2013 levels.
"This work uses the observed data -- capacity factors, fuel prices, power demand and so on -- to make predictions about how capacity factors are affected by different variables," Fell says. "In short, we can get a good idea of what influences the extent to which we use coal power generation."
And what the researchers found was that, if in 2008 natural gas had been available at 2013 prices and wind power had been available at 2013 levels, coal power use would have dropped significantly compared to what was observed in 2008. In fact, these predicted "counterfactual" 2008 capacity usages were similar to observed 2013 capacity usages. This suggests the so-called "war on coal" regulations were not the driver of the coal generation decline over this period.
So they made up their own Model, then started making predictions. To me that translates into we hired a fortune teller and they told us their predictions.
What I would like to see is an actual plain simple cost of coal vs gas. Your articles say gas is cheaper yet don't ever give any kind of prices. The link I posted shows that from 1998 to 2009 that Coal was cheaper than gas. It's on Page 5
Yet we have economic predictions and indicators in every section of our economy. Like I said, we can post conflicting data until hell freezes over. You'll believe the people saying what you want to hear and I'll believe those saying what I want to hear.
Coal went from 50% of our energy in 2005 down to 39% in 20013. All before Obama regulations began. It wasn't because coal was cheaper. I look at the choice industry made to determine what the market dictated. Business doesn't use a more expensive source. Their goal is to make profits.
But as I pointed out before Bush started the restrictions on coal plants and that's when the down turn started for building and operating coal fired plants.
I will give you a prime example from a coal powered plant that I grew up a few miles away from, and where my brother-in-law still works.
Due to Bushes regulations the plant had to add scrubbers at a cost of 1.5 BILLION dollars. They knew they had to do this several years before they did in 2011. 4 years later Obama changes the rules and that 1.5 BILLION that they invested is now out the window as they can't meet the new emission standards Obama put into place.
Quote:
Business doesn't use a more expensive source. Their goal is to make profits.
Which is what I have been saying. Regulations put in place by the government drove up the cost of burning coal. Pricing it out of the market. Just like was posted earlier in this thread when Obama said..... sure they can still build coal powered plants but it's going to bankrupt them if they do. I have several friends who work there besides my brother-in-law and they all talk about the regulations making it impossible for them to plan on working there much longer as it's only a matter of time before they shut down do to regulations, not due to the price of coal.
An area the size of Kentucky burned, and Yes Koalas are slower, too slow to escape the flames, and they eat Eucalyptus which is more flammable because it's oily.
Some of the facts from the first article I could find on the subject.
20 people died, half a billion animals died, 25? towns completely destroyed.
Last time on this thread, before I start the new one.
Remember when rump fired the heads of EPA, pandemic response teams? He never replaced them, could have used them right about now. Consider this the final nail in the coffin of Donald Trump presidency.
“The global struggle to slow the spread of the coronavirus has brought with it canceled flights, closed businesses and a quickly escalating economic slowdown that could be devastating to millions. It is also certain to shrink greenhouse gas emissions this year, according to climate scientists.
But does that mean we are turning a corner in cutting planet-warming pollution?
If history is any indication, no. The slide in emissions will be temporary, experts say. What’s more, scientists and environmentalists worry the pandemic will at the same time undermine government and industry’s resolve to cut emissions in the long term.
Experts are predicting the health crisis will cause global emissions to drop for the first time since 2009, during the Great Recession. But a look back over the decades shows a steady rise in greenhouse gases punctuated by temporary dips caused by economic downturns, including the 2008 global financial crisis and the oil shocks of the 1970s. Pollution bounces back predictably once the economy starts improving again, with the resurgence in industrial activity, travel and consumption more than offsetting any short-lived benefits to the climate.‘
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives. – Jackie Robinson
It's an odd thing. People fully understand that if you started putting all your garbage in your back yard, soon it would be a dump. Yet some of those same people think you can keep dumping your garbage in the air and nothing happens.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I never understood the disconnect with people who think if they throw flowers in the air while their upwind neighbor is pumping garbage into that same air, they can't smell those flowers at all.
Stop trying to fix us (America) when it is your neighbor (China) that really needs the fixing.
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