DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Could Drew Forbes be the answer at RG?

I don’t know, I’m just fishing for opinions.

He could be but we know almost nothing about him other than that he impressed a terrible coaching staff late in preseason last year. My money is on Wyatt Teller.

There has to be a reason Chris Hubbard is still a Brown. IMO he makes too much to only be kept as "OL depth". I think maybe he gets a shot at RG in training camp.

Cutting Mitchell would be a big mistake

Its not the topic, but it bugs me that they might consider cutting Mitchell. I think he's our 2nd best CB after Ward.

I haven’t seen any credible report that states we are thinking of cutting him, trading him, or anything else.

Me either.

I dont know enough about him or OL play to gauge it ... but my educated guess is he probably is not

I do not know the answer either, but if not him then who?

--Teller was okay after a rocky start, but we did not ask him to pull and use any athletic traits in that regard.

--Hubbard was our worst graded blocker in the running game.

He can not hold up to a bull rush from an edge player ... wherefore is he going to hold up against a bull rush from a bigger DT?

To me Forbes is our only real option, till (if and when) we add another.

I was replying to cfrs15's post of Jake Trotter's tweet above. Its not like I made it up.

It was only an illustration based on the facts of their cap savings.

Well then it was a really dumb illustration, because I think Mitchell is a good CB. Why would his name be included with some fairly obvious potential cuts like Hubbard and Vernon if it was totally unfounded?

Probably because Berry and Depo were part of a FO that made many such dumb....errr........analytical decisions.

And yet Jake Trotter - who I consider "credible" - retweeted it.

Trotter had some great tape breakdowns. They were awesome and he understands the Xs and Os. His opinions on the team and its personnel have been horrendous, in my opinion. That saddens me because I really liked his breakdowns of actual football plays.

And yet Jake Trotter - who I consider "credible" - retweeted it. [/quote]

Credibility is relevant to the issue.

Is Tretter privy to the teams plans on possible trades ... ect?

If so, then someone should tell the poor man that loose lips sink ships.

Wondering if you're thinking of Jake Burns, at least in terms of tape breakdowns? Maybe not ...

j/c

Mitchell is good...but not McCourty good.

I hope they keep Mitchell and don't do something stupid like King John did with McCourty and trade him away for a 7th Rd pick to a perennial playoff contender...making the pick a late 7th rounder at that. It will be difficult to Trump that mistake.

I think 'they' like Forbes...whether that is as an interior guy (like C even) or OT is TBD.

Whoops. I was. No wonder I was so surprised he now sounds like an idiot? LMAO

Sorry about that.

Man, I feel really dumb about that. I kept wondering how could a guy who was so astute about the game of football now be making such dumb takes over and over again?

Of course, I got the names confused. Very embarrassing. I'm sorry.

Mitchell’s better than Court ...

No biggie, we all do it.

Agreed. I think McCourtey is a below average corner. He was one of the reasons Williams went w/that the deep, deep safety. Not the only reason, but ONE of the reasons.

We did not have a man to man corner on the team. Peppers took terrible angles to the ball and Kinnard was worse. That was such a sucky secondary. Thank God, Dorsey was smart enough to upgrade that group.

Anyway ... to bring it back to a RG discussion, I wonder if we might be interested in the RG from Auburn (who's name escapes me at the moment) in the 2nd round, because I'm not sure the answer is on our roster right now.

Dave, I think this thing w/the OL is way overblown. Once again, our pass blocking was 17th in the entire NFL. That isn't great. But, it's not the worst in the league like some claim. It's about average.

We already spent a lot of money on a RT. I approve of that move.

We almost assuredly will draft a LT or bring in Williams or Peters.

Does our "franchise" qb really need an all-pro at every position to be successful?

I think the Browns better address the linebacker and safety group. We could use a run-stuffing DT. I would also draft an Edge rusher to develop.

This infatuation w/the OL is overblown because some folks are blaming them for Baker's issues. Others...like you...read their garbage and kind of believe it. I have maintained that evaluating how an OL plays is the hardest thing to do for casual fans. Our line was not good, but it was nowhere near as bad as almost everyone says it was.

Vers, by the same token, do you think the FO is overemphasizing the line in general or overemphasizing it in relation to our other needs?

Maybe you're right, but I saw enough of the middle of the line getting caved last year to think we need interior help on the OL, not just on the edges.

I was probably unclear. I wasn't getting on the FO. I loved the move they made to get Conklin. Great move!!!! We needed a RT and we needed to upgrade our run blocking. Conklin fits the bill for both.

We obviously need a new LT. Robinson is gone. Acquiring one is a given.

I'm just saying that you can't fix all issues in a year or two. People rag on Dorsey about some things, but look what he inherited. No qb. Nor WRs. RBs were weak. Corners were bad. Safeties were horrendous. It takes some time.

You don't need all great players along the OL. I think Conklin is a huge signing, bring in a LT and roll w/one of the RG's on the roster.

Gotta get help at LBer and FS. That's mandatory.

But again, I wasn't bashing the FO. I was pointing out that some posters paint an inaccurate picture of things and others believe it because it is very hard for the casual fan to evaluate OL play. They see a qb get sacked or bail the pocket and immediately blame the OL. The line might be the problem on that play, but the qb might have held the ball too long or left a clean pocket. Most fans can't distinguish the differences.

No offense, Dave. But, I don't agree w/that statement at all.

Dave, I could post articles and actual NextGen stats that show that Baker bailed clean pockets and held the ball too long.

In fact, I have already posted a lot of them. They typically get ignored and the personal attacks begin. I'll show them to you.........if you like? And if you promise to not just blow them off.

I think we had issues with inconsistency and a combination of good pass protection where Baker had a lot of time mixed in with some horrendous pass protection that resulted in very quick pressure. How that grades out might be 'average' but when you watch games and rushers are getting through virtually untouched on a plays it sticks in the mind. Those plays happened both up the middle as well as on the edge. Hell I remember plays when Baker was sacked when only 3 or 4 were rushing.

Decent article here: https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-mav...d-they-get-here

Of course - depending on what agenda someone wants to promote, having Sports Illustrated talk about some of Baker's struggles being as a result of the OL might mean they aren't objective.

I think Forbes should be given a honest chance to compete for a starting spot.

j/c:

I am wondering if people actually believe that if other teams provide max protection for the qb at all times?

Did our OL give up pressures? Of course they did.

Could our OL have been better. No doubt about it.

Did Baker contribute to the problems. I say...and the numbers say.......he did.

Do other teams provide a clean pocket all the time. LMAO....No.

Do good OLs give up pressures? Yes, there is no doubt about it.

Can a good qb elevate those around him? Yes....look at Mahomes who had Cam "Freaking" Erving as his LT for part of the season.

We love Myles. Why? Because he pressures the QB. So do guys like Von Miller, Lawson, Donald, Mack, Bosa, Bosa, Atkins, etc, etc. They freaking get paid to do so.

Get this through your heads. ALL QBS GET PRESSURED!!!!

If your OL is ranked in the middle of the pass blocking efficiency rates and was towards the top of the list in providing a winning individual blocking rate of 2.5 seconds.............this should not be a huge issue.

I think it is a huge issue because certain folks want to excuse Baker's poor play by blaming the OL.

To be clear, Baker was at times compromised by poor OL play. Then again, all QBs are.

I say the team was more compromised by Baker's poor play than any other position.

And every Browns fan and poster agrees with you.

LMAO. I guess I'll get called more names because I replied to one of your posts on a discussion forum?

Looks like every thread is going to be about Baker and how "certain folks" still think he's a viable option at QB1 tonight.

BTW, anybody know his QBR from last year? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

To expound.......let's get real here.

Baker was drafted first overall. That should mean that he is a difference maker. A guy who elevates others. A guy who can carry--or at least--uplift the team.

Yet, all I read on here is how bad his OL was. How bad his coaching was.

The numbers say his OL was about average in pass pro.

The coaching thing is weird because Baker was quoted as saying something about how much of a difference coaching can make after Freddie was his OC in 2018. Yet, we all blame that same coach for 2019. Hmmmm.........I don't know. I don't think Freddie did a good job. I actually think he was pretty bad. On the other hand, how is it that the guy who elevated Baker's play in 2018 was the cause for Baker being bad in 2019?

The math does not add up.

I think a good qb can make his teammates look better than they are. I think a bad qb can make his teammates look worse than they are.

I think there are two things at play moving forward.

1. Baker has the arm talent to be a very good qb. He needs to freaking mature. He needs to work on his fundamentals. He does need to learn how to properly execute his drops. He needs to learn to recognize where the blitz is coming from pre-snap. He hopefully will learn to read coverages better, but I doubt it. Perhaps our coaches can compensate for that and let him be a one-read qb?

2. Baker continues to be Baker and the team moves on from him after this year.

I hope number one is true. He has talent. He was the first pick of the draft. I do not like the guy at all, but I am hoping he succeeds.

I have read some things that say the Brown's FO is supporting him, but are holding him accountable. I like that attitude.

Dorsey gave everything to Baker. His choice of coaches. Bringing in stud personnel. I get the strategy of providing your franchise qb the best opportunity, but it was almost like entitlement.

Time to live up to your draft status, Baker.