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It is ironic and should be addressed if he in fact suggested this is a hoax. I just didn't see it in any of the links that were on the original OCD post. This other one is blocked out as inaccurate when I clicked on it.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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You just can't make this crap up! What the hell is wrong with this administration? After Considering $1 Billion Price Tag for Ventilators, White House Has Second ThoughtsA deal with General Motors and Ventec Life Systems to produce tens of thousands of the critical lifesaving devices seemed imminent. Then the announcement was pulled back. WASHINGTON — The White House had been preparing to reveal on Wednesday a joint venture between General Motors and Ventec Life Systems that would allow for the production of as many as 80,000 desperately needed ventilators to respond to an escalating pandemic when word suddenly came down that the announcement was off. The decision to cancel the announcement, government officials say, came after the Federal Emergency Management Agency said it needed more time to assess whether the estimated cost was prohibitive. That price tag was more than $1 billion, with several hundred million dollars to be paid upfront to General Motors to retool a car parts plant in Kokomo, Ind., where the ventilators would be made with Ventec’s technology. Government officials said that the deal might still happen but that they are examining at least a dozen other proposals. And they contend that an initial promise that the joint venture could turn out 20,000 ventilators in short order had shrunk to 7,500, with even that number in doubt. Longtime emergency managers at FEMA are working with military officials to sort through the competing offers and federal procurement rules while under pressure to give President Trump something to announce. But in an interview Thursday night with Sean Hannity, the president played down the need for ventilators. “I don’t believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators,” he said, a reference to New York, where Gov. Andrew Cuomo has appealed for federal help in obtaining them. “You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’” A General Motors spokesman said that “Project V,” as the ventilator program is known, was moving very fast, and a company official said “there’s no issue with retooling.” A Ventec representative agreed. “Ventec and G.M. have been working at breakneck speed to leverage our collective expertise in ventilation and manufacturing to meet the needs of the country as quickly as possible and arm medical professionals with the number of ventilators needed to save lives,” said Chris O. Brooks, Ventec’s chief strategy officer. The only thing missing was clarity from the government about how many ventilators they needed — and who would be paid to build them. The shortage of ventilators has emerged as one of the major criticisms of the Trump administration’s response to the coronavirus. The need to quickly equip hospitals across the country with tens of thousands more of the devices to treat those most seriously ill with the virus was not anticipated despite the Trump administration’s own projection in a simulation last year that millions of people could be hospitalized. And even now, the effort to produce them has been confused and disorganized. At the center of the discussion about how to ramp up the production of ventilators is Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and a senior White House aide, who has told people that he was called in two weeks ago by Vice President Mike Pence to produce more coronavirus test kits and who has now turned his attention to ventilators. He has been directing officials at FEMA in the effort. Two officials said the suggestion to wait on the General Motors offer came from Col. Patrick Work, who is working at FEMA. Some government officials expressed concern about the possibility of ordering too many ventilators, leaving them with an expensive surplus. As the agency has sorted through offers, trying to weigh production ability and costs, hospitals in New York and elsewhere are reporting a desperate need for more ventilators, which are critical in treating respiratory problems in a fast-rising tide of severe coronavirus cases. A spokeswoman for FEMA said Colonel Work presented information on each contract in such meetings but did not make any recommendations. A White House spokesman declined to comment. The involvement of General Motors was first floated this month as the carmaker’s factory floor in Kokomo was grinding to a halt and workers were being sent home — partly because the market was collapsing but also because workers would otherwise risk exposure to the coronavirus. Last week, General Motors, Ventec Life Systems and a coalition of business executives called StopTheSpread.org issued a statement saying that Ventec would “leverage G.M.’s logistics, purchasing and manufacturing expertise to build more of their critically important ventilators,” including some portable units. By Sunday, Mr. Trump appeared to suggest on Twitter that a deal had been completed to mass-produce the ventilators, even though it was unclear who would pay to equip the General Motors plant or how long that process would take. “Ford, General Motors and Tesla are being given the go ahead to make ventilators and other metal products, FAST! @fema,” he wrote. “Go for it auto execs, lets see how good you are?” Not for the first time has Mr. Trump jumped the gun. Tesla officials had in fact met with engineers from the medical device company Medtronic in a separate negotiation, but no partnership has yet been announced. And while the chief executive of General Motors, Mary T. Barra, was enthused about the ventilator idea, Mr. Trump’s own aides had not embraced the G.M.-Ventec partnership — in part because they had not seen the specifics of the proposal. Administration officials said Thursday that they were struggling to understand just how many ventilators the new venture could make. The initial projection, one senior administration official said, was that after three weeks of preparation it could produce an initial run of 20,000 ventilators, or about two-thirds of what Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York recently said his state alone needed to cover the influx of coronavirus patients expected in two weeks, if not sooner. That number then shrank to 7,500 ventilators in the initial run, or maybe 5,000, an apparent recognition that auto transmissions and ventilators had very little in common. Those numbers are in flux and so are the Trump administration’s because the White House cannot decide how many ventilators it wants. Targets have changed by the hour, officials said, as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Department of Health and Human Services, the Food and Drug Administration, which approves the use of medical devices, and the White House try to figure out how many ventilators to request and how much they should cost. Those issues appeared to come to a head on Wednesday afternoon, when FEMA told the White House that it was premature to make a decision. The $1.5 billion price tag comes to around $18,000 a ventilator. And the overall cost, by comparison, is roughly equal to buying 18 F-35s, the Pentagon’s most advanced fighter jet. So on Wednesday, despite the president’s tweet three days earlier, FEMA was still weighing competing offers in order to make a recommendation to Mr. Kushner. And it seemed clear to several officials that the agency would have to select multiple manufacturers, in part to avoid the risk that one production line runs into technical troubles, or that its workers contract the very virus the ventilators are being built to defeat. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/us/politics/coronavirus-ventilators-trump.htmlWe just cut 2 Trillion dollars in payouts! Even if you contracted 10 of these deals it would only be 15 Billion! Just do it.
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You just can't make this crap up! What the hell is wrong with this administration? After Considering $1 Billion Price Tag for Ventilators, White House Has Second ThoughtsA deal with General Motors and Ventec Life Systems to produce tens of thousands of the critical lifesaving devices seemed imminent. Then the announcement was pulled back. WASHINGTON — The White House had been preparing to reveal on Wednesday a joint venture between General Motors and Ventec Life Systems that would allow for the production of as many as 80,000 desperately needed ventilators to respond to an escalating pandemic when word suddenly came down that the announcement was off. The decision to cancel the announcement, government officials say, came after the Federal Emergency Management Agency said it needed more time to assess whether the estimated cost was prohibitive. That price tag was more than $1 billion, with several hundred million dollars to be paid upfront to General Motors to retool a car parts plant in Kokomo, Ind., where the ventilators would be made with Ventec’s technology. Government officials said that the deal might still happen but that they are examining at least a dozen other proposals. And they contend that an initial promise that the joint venture could turn out 20,000 ventilators in short order had shrunk to 7,500, with even that number in doubt. Longtime emergency managers at FEMA are working with military officials to sort through the competing offers and federal procurement rules while under pressure to give President Trump something to announce. But in an interview Thursday night with Sean Hannity, the president played down the need for ventilators. “I don’t believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators,” he said, a reference to New York, where Gov. Andrew Cuomo has appealed for federal help in obtaining them. “You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’” A General Motors spokesman said that “Project V,” as the ventilator program is known, was moving very fast, and a company official said “there’s no issue with retooling.” A Ventec representative agreed. “Ventec and G.M. have been working at breakneck speed to leverage our collective expertise in ventilation and manufacturing to meet the needs of the country as quickly as possible and arm medical professionals with the number of ventilators needed to save lives,” said Chris O. Brooks, Ventec’s chief strategy officer. The only thing missing was clarity from the government about how many ventilators they needed — and who would be paid to build them. The shortage of ventilators has emerged as one of the major criticisms of the Trump administration’s response to the coronavirus. The need to quickly equip hospitals across the country with tens of thousands more of the devices to treat those most seriously ill with the virus was not anticipated despite the Trump administration’s own projection in a simulation last year that millions of people could be hospitalized. And even now, the effort to produce them has been confused and disorganized. At the center of the discussion about how to ramp up the production of ventilators is Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and a senior White House aide, who has told people that he was called in two weeks ago by Vice President Mike Pence to produce more coronavirus test kits and who has now turned his attention to ventilators. He has been directing officials at FEMA in the effort. Two officials said the suggestion to wait on the General Motors offer came from Col. Patrick Work, who is working at FEMA. Some government officials expressed concern about the possibility of ordering too many ventilators, leaving them with an expensive surplus. As the agency has sorted through offers, trying to weigh production ability and costs, hospitals in New York and elsewhere are reporting a desperate need for more ventilators, which are critical in treating respiratory problems in a fast-rising tide of severe coronavirus cases. A spokeswoman for FEMA said Colonel Work presented information on each contract in such meetings but did not make any recommendations. A White House spokesman declined to comment. The involvement of General Motors was first floated this month as the carmaker’s factory floor in Kokomo was grinding to a halt and workers were being sent home — partly because the market was collapsing but also because workers would otherwise risk exposure to the coronavirus. Last week, General Motors, Ventec Life Systems and a coalition of business executives called StopTheSpread.org issued a statement saying that Ventec would “leverage G.M.’s logistics, purchasing and manufacturing expertise to build more of their critically important ventilators,” including some portable units. By Sunday, Mr. Trump appeared to suggest on Twitter that a deal had been completed to mass-produce the ventilators, even though it was unclear who would pay to equip the General Motors plant or how long that process would take. “Ford, General Motors and Tesla are being given the go ahead to make ventilators and other metal products, FAST! @fema,” he wrote. “Go for it auto execs, lets see how good you are?” Not for the first time has Mr. Trump jumped the gun. Tesla officials had in fact met with engineers from the medical device company Medtronic in a separate negotiation, but no partnership has yet been announced. And while the chief executive of General Motors, Mary T. Barra, was enthused about the ventilator idea, Mr. Trump’s own aides had not embraced the G.M.-Ventec partnership — in part because they had not seen the specifics of the proposal. Administration officials said Thursday that they were struggling to understand just how many ventilators the new venture could make. The initial projection, one senior administration official said, was that after three weeks of preparation it could produce an initial run of 20,000 ventilators, or about two-thirds of what Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York recently said his state alone needed to cover the influx of coronavirus patients expected in two weeks, if not sooner. That number then shrank to 7,500 ventilators in the initial run, or maybe 5,000, an apparent recognition that auto transmissions and ventilators had very little in common. Those numbers are in flux and so are the Trump administration’s because the White House cannot decide how many ventilators it wants. Targets have changed by the hour, officials said, as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Department of Health and Human Services, the Food and Drug Administration, which approves the use of medical devices, and the White House try to figure out how many ventilators to request and how much they should cost. Those issues appeared to come to a head on Wednesday afternoon, when FEMA told the White House that it was premature to make a decision. The $1.5 billion price tag comes to around $18,000 a ventilator. And the overall cost, by comparison, is roughly equal to buying 18 F-35s, the Pentagon’s most advanced fighter jet. So on Wednesday, despite the president’s tweet three days earlier, FEMA was still weighing competing offers in order to make a recommendation to Mr. Kushner. And it seemed clear to several officials that the agency would have to select multiple manufacturers, in part to avoid the risk that one production line runs into technical troubles, or that its workers contract the very virus the ventilators are being built to defeat. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/us/politics/coronavirus-ventilators-trump.htmlWe just cut 2 Trillion dollars in payouts! Even if you contracted 10 of these deals it would only be 15 Billion! Just do it. I am disappointed in all our leadership, left and right. We paid more than this to arts, humanities, kennedy center and the IRS in that bill. The money is there - things like this should have been written in and mandated. Why wasnt it?
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So did trump. He wasted nearly two weeks enacting this.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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I guess it depends who you believe;
Supposedly GM wanted the 1 billion for 80,000 ventilators-on average that is about 12,500 for each. From what I read, the normal going price for these was about 5-6K each. But GM wanted the tooling cost thrown in up front-which would jack up the price.
Trump said GM was dragging their feet, wouldn't commit to 80,000 by the end of this year, weren't sure they were going to make enough money-wanted to get their ducks in a row on tooling cost, overtime cost, etc.
It seems like on GM's side they gave their number to do this work in this time frame and the administration was trying to beat the price down and was trying to get competing offers.
Thought something was up this morning when trump tweeted about why GM isn't using Lordstown plant for ventilators. Guess he forgot that GM doesn't even own the plant anymore. I mean, he was the one who announced the deal where GM sold the plant
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It is ironic and should be addressed if he in fact suggested this is a hoax. I just didn't see it in any of the links that were on the original OCD post. This other one is blocked out as inaccurate when I clicked on it. I have cut and paste Trump's exact words. It is there.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Unreal. I feel for everyone on the front lines.
Some of you who have been around for a while know that I am a doctor. More specifically I am an Infectious Disease specialist. So when it comes to the front lines I am it. I work at a mid sized hospital in the suburbs of Charlotte NC. I am telling right here and right now, this [censored] is real. 1, in my area we are still on the slow slope of an exponential curve. We are nothing even close to NYC, or Seattle or New Orleans. And even being so far away in the infection process from those places were are so busy that my partners and I have not taken a day off in weeks. I visit here on my lunch hour to try to keep some sense of normalcy in my life. 2, This is not just a disease of the elderly. 20% of the Covid patients in the ICU in this country are between the ages of 20 and 40. There is a 40 something otherwise healthy Covid patient in our ICU who has a 90% probability of dying in the next 24-48 hours. And people who do recover are showing significant decrease in lung capacity which means that they get short of breath just walking briskly. It is unknown if that is going to be permanent. 3, Despite what Trump says Chlorquine/hydroxychloroquine is not a game changer. It appears to mitigate the disease a little bit. The take away point is a little bit. When a patient gets started on these drugs they do not all of a sudden get miraculously better. 4, The PPE/mask shortage is a real thing. These masks are designed for single use. We get 1 mask per week and if it get soiled or wet we have to turn it in in exchange to get a new one. We have looked at various methods of sterilizing these masks but that is not easy to do without degrading the mask and compromising it's efficacy. We explored UV light sterilization but that degrades the mask. It looks like we can have the mask sit in 150 degree temperatures for 30 minutes will decontaminate without compromising it, but at this point we don't know for sure, or how many times we can do this. Again these are single use masks that we are using for a full week. And when I say single use, I don't mean for a full day. Typically you put the mask on for entering the patient room, discard it when we leave and if we need to go back in use a new mask. And that is at my hospital. I can't imagine how much worse it is at a hospital in one of the hotspots. Have you thought about what happens if the healthcare workers start getting sick? Who will be there to take care of the sick? 5, We don't need more ventilators? Hospitals are trying to figure out what to rig the ventilators in a way that they can splice the tubing to ventilate multiple patients with a single ventilator. How is that even reasonable? How is any of what we are doing reasonable? But we do what we have to. The federal government needs to get their heads out of their asses and commission businesses with the capabilities to start making this protective equipment and ventilators. But instead, they are holding things up unless the Governors bend down and kiss his butt. Their actions are going to be directly responsible for innumerable deaths. Anyone who says this president is providing quality leadership either doesn't care enough to actually look at it, is a complete sucker for the propaganda, or just trying to get Swish fired up. I think this should be quoted as the first post in a new thread to continue this discussion. I'd like to see and hear people try to defend how this whole crisis has been mismanaged after this and Clem's post .... and again, to emphasize the point that this administration had the alarm bells going off back in JANUARY but Trump didn't want to pay attention and deliberately ignored the experts and re-wrote the agenda/narrative. I'd do it myself but don't know if that is considered improper board etiquette.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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It is ironic and should be addressed if he in fact suggested this is a hoax. I just didn't see it in any of the links that were on the original OCD post. This other one is blocked out as inaccurate when I clicked on it. I have cut and paste Trump's exact words. It is there. Not Trump, the pastor.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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It's obvious she's a journalist and not in supply chain management. I happen to be and what he's saying (not so eloquently) is not to order more PPE(or anything) than needed. We've had to really put the clamps on our wards and departments or they would take it all. They're NOT understanding that there are not seas of supplies at our disposal to give them to hoard. We are only allocated so much supply and when it's gone we wait until the next month if it doesn't go to a back order status. I'm seeing things from deep in the trenches and let me tell you...supplies are gold right now! Magnify that by all the hospitals scrambling to overstock across the world and that a huge amount of that got bogged down coming from China when they were at their worse. It's an issue! The president is not wrong in asking people to be frugal and respectful about their needs and usage. He may just want to let someone else Express it..Hang in there folks. Not to mention that the shortage of ventilators and PPE isn't just the US... it is a chronic GLOBAL shortage of all types of equipment. There pretty much isn't a nation on Earth that isn't struggling with this right now, and we are all stuck with the same supply chains.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Correct. Still doesn't stop some people from blaming Trump..........yet they ignore what, say, Cuomo DIDN'T do.
This IS the political forum, right?
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Correct. Still doesn't stop some people from blaming Trump..........yet they ignore what, say, Cuomo DIDN'T do.
This IS the political forum, right? I'm not following Cuomo or NYC .... I read something you posted (I think) saying he made a decision 2 years ago about something or other? Is that correct? Verified independently? .... Was Cuomo warned at the time (as Trump was) an impending pandemic was likely? Did Cuomo make a different decision than experts and make public statements contrary to, or override decisions that experts advised? Did he yell at any experts bearing bad news and tell them to get out of his office because the news wasn't rosy? .... Another angle/bottom line, did Cuomo make any decisions differently than other Governors ?? I don't know the answers but I doubt the decisions and situations are really comparable and more likely Trump/Breigbart/Fox fake news and deflection.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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No. Or yes. Too many questions. Verified, yes. In 2015 despite a need for ventilators, he spent money elsewhere. You can read about it by searching "cuomo didn't buy ventilators". You'll find many credible sources. And this just in: https://www.yahoo.com/news/the-mistakes-...-090040375.htmlFrom the article: The threat of the coronavirus was looming over New York City, but Mayor Bill de Blasio was not especially worried. “I’m encouraging New Yorkers to go on with your lives + get out on the town despite Coronavirus,” he tweeted on March 2. There was an Italian film playing at Lincoln Center. He urged people to see it.
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If most Americans have only $400 in savings, we have country of Dumb ass people. I believe her in once sense, but don't believe her that people couldn't do better. They just have to try. The "give it to me" crowd is getting far larger than this country needs. Face it, it you are a 30 something and stuck in a minimum wage job for the long haul, you drag down this country. If you started as a pimple faced kid and stay at pretty much the same wage, you are a lazy loser. I mean come on. Nobody owes you anything. In real life, you have to earn your way. 150 years ago you would have starved or been shot as a thief looking for food.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Why are they releasing all the inmates? They dont have jobs or necessarily places to live. They are just gonna do crime.
No Craps Given
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If most Americans have only $400 in savings, we have country of Dumb ass people. I believe her in once sense, but don't believe her that people couldn't do better. They just have to try. The "give it to me" crowd is getting far larger than this country needs. Face it, it you are a 30 something and stuck in a minimum wage job for the long haul, you drag down this country. If you started as a pimple faced kid and stay at pretty much the same wage, you are a lazy loser. I mean come on. Nobody owes you anything. In real life, you have to earn your way. 150 years ago you would have starved or been shot as a thief looking for food. 
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Wow is right!
Reminds me of Pits panicked posts!
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To bad that scumbag como was worried more about the scumbag illegals and bail for convicted felons while the covid was growing in their schools, hes the culprit of the spread of the virus in NY screw him and his minions.
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We just cut 2 Trillion dollars in payouts! Even if you contracted 10 of these deals it would only be 15 Billion! Just do it.
I am disappointed in all our leadership, left and right. We paid more than this to arts, humanities, kennedy center and the IRS in that bill. The money is there - things like this should have been written in and mandated. Why wasnt it? [/quote] Administration officials said Thursday that they were struggling to understand just how many ventilators the new venture could make.
The initial projection, one senior administration official said, was that after three weeks of preparation it could produce an initial run of 20,000 ventilators, or about two-thirds of what Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York recently said his state alone needed to cover the influx of coronavirus patients expected in two weeks, if not sooner.
That number then shrank to 7,500 ventilators in the initial run, or maybe 5,000, an apparent recognition that auto transmissions and ventilators had very little in common. Those numbers are in flux and so are the Trump administration’s because the White House cannot decide how many ventilators it wants.This is why the deal fell through... upon digging in to the details it looked more and more like GM wasn't able to provide a firm commitment as to what it actually could produce... claiming 20k then saying,, well maybe 7,500.. well, maybe more like 5,000.... If GM couldn't give a reasonable, confident estimate, then Trump was right to pull the deal. If you believe the hype which clearly most of you do, but you at least believe insensible solutions then there is no reason we should be wasting time or resources on people or companies who can't deliver on what we need.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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Actually the ploy by the crazy PELOSI was to give money to the Kennedy center was to able the Lying Jarret (Barrys girl) to funnel money to Barry and PELOSI. Thank god Trump appointed his guys to that board to watch them IMO
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My post was to devil.
Last edited by Riley01; 03/27/20 10:23 PM.
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I think the board will start taking you a bit more seriously when you finally learn how to press the correct buttons. After that, you can graduate to advanced concepts like words and sentences. In the meantime, stay indoors. Wash your hands. And consider this: your keyboard just might already harbor the coronavirus. Probably best for your health (and Dawgtalkers reputation) to simply stop typing. If nothing else, your self isolation from this board will make it it healthier for the rest of us.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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We're not going to make any real progress getting past this until they start cutting away the hype, and the panic and we stop giving legitimacy to those trying to exploit the situation.
About 70% of all this is legit, the other 30% is hype and attempts to induce panic. I understand there are times that people needed to be spurred to action quick, fast and in a hurry. But the problem is we've implemented some very serious measures based more on panic than on factual information, the consequences of which aren't being given consideration.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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We're not going to make any real progress getting past this until they start cutting away the hype, and the panic and we stop giving legitimacy to those trying to exploit the situation.
About 70% of all this is legit, the other 30% is hype and attempts to induce panic. I understand there are times that people needed to be spurred to action quick, fast and in a hurry. But the problem is we've implemented some very serious measures based more on panic than on factual information, the consequences of which aren't being given consideration.
Under normal circumstances, I would say yes. But with Trump as the President there is no chance of that as he has to flame anyone who does not kiss his butt.. He would rather spend his time lying and denying, in order to make us forget his bull crap statements that have illustrate that he is anything but a stable genius...
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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my biggest sticking point with Trump in all of this is that the governors have to make nice to him to get aid. That's BS.
I expected the lies, exaggerations, lack of knowledge, and pitiful leadership because he's Trump. But making them suck up for funds to help their states is too much, way too much.
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You have not seen Pence, then.
All he does is kiss butt.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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To bad that scumbag como was worried more about the scumbag illegals and bail for convicted felons while the covid was growing in their schools, hes the culprit of the spread of the virus in NY screw him and his minions. 
Joe Thomas #73
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my biggest sticking point with Trump in all of this is that the governors have to make nice to him to get aid. That's BS.
I expected the lies, exaggerations, lack of knowledge, and pitiful leadership because he's Trump. But making them suck up for funds to help their states is too much, way too much. LOL you guys wouldn't know leadership if it bit you in the ass He hasn't made anyone suck up for funds. What is required is an effective partnership between the two levels of gov't. That can't occur if Newsom or Cuomo were acting like, say someone like you or any of the others around here then turning around and demanding things be done. It's abundantly clear that most of you guys have little to no experience with the responsibility of having to resolve an emergency. Sure, emergencies and crises pop up in our lives, but those are typically contained to a close friend or family member, and much of the solution is farmed out to others. But you guys don't know anything about identifying multiple victims or causes, identifying and taking control of environmental factors to help contain a situation, identifying resources and coordinating the logistics. You guys have no real understanding of the importance of helping people find a psychological equilibrium if you will, a measure of calm where they can think and act rationally and be directed. Or the importance of putting small goals in front of people to help them endure. All of that stuff is irrelevant for you guys. If it were relevant, your criticism would be different i.e. constructive. But it isn't because saving lives isn't as important to most of you as you pompously claim it is. Its' like, 3rd on your list of priorities. 1st: is the satisfaction of your own ego. 2nd: is exploiting the situation for political benefit (1st and 2nd have this incestual relationship that feeds in on itself. 3rd... then maybe lives. We get it. You guys don't think highly of Trump. That's fine. It's not required. But you guys put that dislike so far first and foremost that you can't even be objectively critical. Is it you can't, or you choose not to? Will you guys at least be honest about your bias and hypocrisy? Bash Trump for not doing things sooner. Ok... you do know that the only way to have gotten these "lock downs" in effect on such a scale right out of the gate would to have done it as a Federal order. You guys would have called him a fascist Nazi for implementing it without just cause. And look at it this way: I think we can all agree that generally speaking the US wasn't as prepared as it could have been to tackle a global pandemic. If we look back there's plenty of blame to go around politically. But even if you don't want to mess with that and just start with we weren't prepared... how much sense does it make to call for and implement measures you aren't able to put in effect at that time? WE HAD A NATIONAL RUN ON FRIGGIN TOILET PAPER and NO ONE knows why.. all in response to the prospect of going on a 2 week lock down. If the Trump admin has been as incompetent as you claim and the virus is as deadly as it is binge reported to be then the death count should be much higher than it is. Much higher. We've been dealing with it long enough. And when you look at how far apart and unrelated the higher profile people who tested positive have been, it would suggest the transmission rates are much higher than being given credit for. Unless you really think that the Brazilian prime minister, several high ranking Iranians, an NBA player, and Tom Hanks were all hanging out at the same food truck around the same time...
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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We're not going to make any real progress getting past this until they start cutting away the hype, and the panic and we stop giving legitimacy to those trying to exploit the situation.
About 70% of all this is legit, the other 30% is hype and attempts to induce panic. I understand there are times that people needed to be spurred to action quick, fast and in a hurry. But the problem is we've implemented some very serious measures based more on panic than on factual information, the consequences of which aren't being given consideration.
Under normal circumstances, I would say yes. But with Trump as the President there is no chance of that as he has to flame anyone who does not kiss his butt.. He would rather spend his time lying and denying, in order to make us forget his bull crap statements that have illustrate that he is anything but a stable genius... I don't know what you'd consider normal circumstances.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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Posts: 30,396 Likes: 440
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Amen.
While this is a pandemic, apparently, some are making this so anti trump it's pathetic.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Amen.
While this is a pandemic, apparently, some are making this so anti trump it's pathetic. Get a clue. Nobody is making this anti trump. trump opens his mouth and stupid crap flys out. And you all defend his stupid crap like a flock of sheep. Keep shining that turd bro. Pffft trump. You call it hate. We hate trump the man right? We’ll you’re all wrong we hate what he says. We hate how he projects his flaws onto others. And most of all we hate how he tries to lead from his bully pulpit. He’s failed miserably with his trump virus in the USA
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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Joined: Dec 2006
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jc... Ford Hospital's letter outlining coronavirus protocols was to plan for 'extreme emergency' Kristen Jordan Shamus and Phoebe Wall Howard, Detroit Free Press Published 6:00 a.m. ET March 28, 2020 L A document that drew an outcry on social media this week outlining the guidelines Henry Ford Health System would use to decide who gets life-saving treatment and who does not in the surging coronavirus pandemic was drafted for planning purposes only, hospital officials said Friday. It was part of a 50-page plan, a protocol for what to do in the event that the hospital system is overwhelmed with critically ill patients in an "extreme emergency" in the absolute worst-case scenario, said Dr. Adnan Munkarah, Henry Ford's executive president and chief clinical officer. "Given the pandemic of the nature that we are seeing at the present time, we must all be prepared. We'd be foolish if we are not prepared," Munkara said Friday. The instructions outlined in the guidelines have "not been activated at Henry Ford Health System. We've not initiated that protocol. We have no immediate plan and hopefully we'll never have to activate such a document or such processes," he said. The document was initially posted to Twitter on Thursday by Nicholas Bagley, a University of Michigan law professor, and the outcry on social media was swift. Some were shocked, others saddened, and still others challenged the authenticity of the document, which appeared to be on Henry Ford Health System letterhead. The letter "To our patients, families and community: Please know that we care deeply about you and your family's health and are doing our best to protect and serve you and our community. We currently have a public health emergency that is making our supply of some medical resources hard to find. Because of shortages, we will need to be careful with resources. Patients who have the best chance of getting better are our first priority. Patients will be evaluated for the best plan of care and dying patients will be provided comfort care. What this means for you and your family: 1. Alert staff during triage of any current medical conditions or if you have a Do Not Resuscitate (DNR)/Do Not Attempt Resuscitation (DNAR) or other important medical information. 2. If you (or a family member) becomes ill and your medical doctor believes that you need extra care in an Intensive Care Unit (ICU) or Mechanical Ventilation (breathing machine) you will be assessed for eligibility based only on your specific condition. 3. Some patients will be extremely sick and very unlikely to survive their illness even with critical treatment. Treating these patients would take away resources for patients who might survive. 4. Patients who are not eligible for ICU or ventilator care will receive treatment for pain control and comfort measures. Some conditions that are likely (to) make you not eligible include: Severe heart, lung, kidney or liver failure Terminal cancers Severe trauma or burns 5. Patients who have ventilator or ICU care withdrawn will receive pain control and comfort measures: 6. Patients who are treated with a ventilator or ICU care may have these treatments stopped if they do not improve over time. If they do not improve this means that the patient has a poor chance of surviving the illness — even if the care was continued. This decision will be based on medical condition and likelihood of getting better. It will not be based on other reasons such as race, gender, health insurance status, ability to pay for care, sexual orientation, employment status or immigration status. All patients are evaluated for survival using the same measures. 7. If the treatment team has determined that you or your family members does not meet criteria to receive critical care or that ICU treatments will be stopped, talk to your doctor. Your doctor can ask for a review by a team of medical experts (a Clinical Review Committee evaluation.)" The health system responded to Bagley's Twitter post at 11:22 p.m. Thursday, writing in a Twitter post: "With a pandemic, we must be prepared for worst case. With collective wisdom from our industry, we crafted a policy to provide guidance for making difficult patient care decisions. We hope never to have to apply them. We will always utilize every resource to care for our patients." The health system hosted a virtual press conference Friday to further explain it. Munkara told journalists that the document was developed by Henry Ford Health System's ethics committee, "and has been reviewed by our specialists and experts in critical care medicine, pulmonary care, our hospitalist group, our chief medical officers, nursing leaders ... over 50 people have looked at that." He said health systems around the country have similar plans at the ready for pandemic response. "These sorts of guidelines are not new to large health care institutions," he said. "And in fact, there's been ongoing conversations among us across the nation, looking at numerous different guidelines. They've been shared widely amongst us professionally, and our teams and work together to develop which ones we thought would work best for our system." Tyler Joshua @tylerjoshua80 · Mar 26, 2020 Replying to @HenryFordNews Are you abandoning your patients? What does @HFHS_WLassiter3 think about this? View image on Twitter Henry Ford News ✔ @HenryFordNews With a pandemic, we must be prepared for worst case. With collective wisdom from our industry, we crafted a policy to provide guidance for making difficult patient care decisions. We hope never to have to apply them. We will always utilize every resource to care for our patients. 77 12:30 AM - Mar 27, 2020 Twitter Ads info and privacy 57 people are talking about this By Friday afternoon, Michigan had 3,657 confirmed cases of the novel coronavirus and 92 deaths, according to the state Department of Health and Human Services. In recent days, the CEO of Beaumont Health described the current crisis as "our worst nightmare" and the novel coronavirus health crisis as a "biological tsunami." He warned the public of limited supplies and the need to stay at home to limit the spread. Gov. Gretchen Whitmer issued an executive order on March 23 requiring residents to stay in place until April 13. On Thursday, President Trump discussed providing medical aid with military assistance in New York. Munkara said like other health systems in the region, Henry Ford also is seeing a surge in hospitalizations of about 100 new COVID-19 patients a day, and for now, he said, the health system is managing. "There has been some concern regarding our capacities in our hospitals," he said. "Yes, we are busy in our hospitals. We are busy for regular times, but these are not regular times. And this is why we develop emergency plans." The hospital system already has converted part of its Fairlane Medical Center in Dearborn into a 16-bed inpatient unit for non-coronavirus patients. DIG DEEPER Coronavirus crisis More than 20 patients may have coronavirus at nursing home in Roseville Trump attacks GM and Ford on Twitter, demands they make ventilators now Coronavirus pollution: Gloves, masks, wipes carelessly discarded amid pandemic Henry Ford Health officials confirm letter outlining life and death protocols for COVID-19 President Trump slams Gov. Whitmer as he weighs disaster request for Michigan Henry Ford Macomb Hospital converted eight operating rooms into intensive care beds, and Henry Ford Wyandotte Hospital is converting its surgical units to a dedicated COVID-19 unit. All non-time sensitive procedures, surgeries and clinic appointments are postponed. Complex neurosurgery, advanced ophthalmology and cancer procedures are being performed temporarily at Henry Ford West Bloomfield Hospital instead of Henry Ford Hospital. It is also looking at ways to maximize the supplies it has, Munkara said. Henry Ford plans to convert some anesthesia machines into ventilators. In same cases, he said, it will be able to share a single ventilator among two patients "We have all the equipment that we need to be able to share and continue at double or triple the capacity that we have at the present time," he said. More: Michigan seeking field hospital locations to treat coronavirus, TCF might be among them And if there comes a time when the coronavirus surge overwhelms Henry Ford, and its hospitals cannot handle the load, patients will be transferred to other hospitals in the state with more open beds before the protocols described in the letter would take effect. "Our over-arching goals throughout our hospitals is to make sure that in case of extreme emergency and extreme crisis, we are providing the highest rate of survival during that pandemic," he said, "and at the same time, being transparent to our patients and to their families, about our health care in how we are making decisions. Our clinical decisions are always governed by objective medical evidence. This is how we have built these ... guidelines."
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Legend
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LOL you guys wouldn't know leadership if it bit you in the ass  Says the guys who voted for trump. Real leaders don’t bite or even show their teeth.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,645 Likes: 672
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,645 Likes: 672 |
my biggest sticking point with Trump in all of this is that the governors have to make nice to him to get aid. That's BS.
I expected the lies, exaggerations, lack of knowledge, and pitiful leadership because he's Trump. But making them suck up for funds to help their states is too much, way too much. LOL you guys wouldn't know leadership if it bit you in the ass He hasn't made anyone suck up for funds. What is required is an effective partnership between the two levels of gov't. That can't occur if Newsom or Cuomo were acting like, say someone like you or any of the others around here then turning around and demanding things be done. It's abundantly clear that most of you guys have little to no experience with the responsibility of having to resolve an emergency. Sure, emergencies and crises pop up in our lives, but those are typically contained to a close friend or family member, and much of the solution is farmed out to others. But you guys don't know anything about identifying multiple victims or causes, identifying and taking control of environmental factors to help contain a situation, identifying resources and coordinating the logistics. You guys have no real understanding of the importance of helping people find a psychological equilibrium if you will, a measure of calm where they can think and act rationally and be directed. Or the importance of putting small goals in front of people to help them endure. All of that stuff is irrelevant for you guys. If it were relevant, your criticism would be different i.e. constructive. But it isn't because saving lives isn't as important to most of you as you pompously claim it is. Its' like, 3rd on your list of priorities. 1st: is the satisfaction of your own ego. 2nd: is exploiting the situation for political benefit (1st and 2nd have this incestual relationship that feeds in on itself. 3rd... then maybe lives. We get it. You guys don't think highly of Trump. That's fine. It's not required. But you guys put that dislike so far first and foremost that you can't even be objectively critical. Is it you can't, or you choose not to? Will you guys at least be honest about your bias and hypocrisy? Bash Trump for not doing things sooner. Ok... you do know that the only way to have gotten these "lock downs" in effect on such a scale right out of the gate would to have done it as a Federal order. You guys would have called him a fascist Nazi for implementing it without just cause. And look at it this way: I think we can all agree that generally speaking the US wasn't as prepared as it could have been to tackle a global pandemic. If we look back there's plenty of blame to go around politically. But even if you don't want to mess with that and just start with we weren't prepared... how much sense does it make to call for and implement measures you aren't able to put in effect at that time? WE HAD A NATIONAL RUN ON FRIGGIN TOILET PAPER and NO ONE knows why.. all in response to the prospect of going on a 2 week lock down. If the Trump admin has been as incompetent as you claim and the virus is as deadly as it is binge reported to be then the death count should be much higher than it is. Much higher. We've been dealing with it long enough. And when you look at how far apart and unrelated the higher profile people who tested positive have been, it would suggest the transmission rates are much higher than being given credit for. Unless you really think that the Brazilian prime minister, several high ranking Iranians, an NBA player, and Tom Hanks were all hanging out at the same food truck around the same time... All that blah blah and not one bit of defense of him making governors kiss up to him. Do you think any of the dem governors respect him in the slightest? GMAFB He holds the power of the office and they want him to use that to help them, as for the man, they all know he's a jackass and a fool. You have grown ass people around him every day just trying to put out the fires he starts by running his mouth on crap that he has no clue about! That's leadership? lmao If Obama had acted this way y'all would have revolted. Your whole rant was BS, you are just triggered because everyone can see he's a blithering idiot. The whole world knows it, but 30% of America refuses to believe it just like they deny science. Show me anybody complementing Trump's leadership and I will show you a clueless fool or an ass kisser, sometimes both. And the death rate is still climbing exponentially, so be careful about following what your leader tells you... Packed churches on Easter would be a huge mistake. I can't believe you are making light of the seriousness of this virus. I don't think it's on the scale of the meteor that took out the dinosaurs but it's damn sure on the scale of 'if not handled properly' we could suffer losses in the 100s of thousands, maybe more maybe less but all we have to go on is predictions made from incomplete data. Either way, we are better off erring on the side of caution even if that means drastically overreacting.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 03/28/20 06:56 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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I’m afraid just telling people to self quarantine isn’t working at all. Cases are doubling every two days now. trump wasted so much time getting mobilized for the trump virus war. Martial law is coming folks. All elections will be called off. Mark it down. Long live the king.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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Posts: 9,148 Likes: 208
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Thanks for the love guys. Stay healthy my friends.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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God Bless & Good Luck ... 
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This post would make a lot of sense.......
If it weren’t for the fact that the US is now #1 in corona virus cases.
Also, I know what good leadership is.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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