DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum QB Index: Ranking Every QB to Start a game in 2019

The ranking was based off of the 2019 season.

How many playoff apperences has Baker led the Browns to?
Zero. He has more commericals than playoff appearences. That's not a good sign
If the Browns don't make the playoffs This year
What will the excuses for Baker be?
Lamar is on a different level than Baker
Their isn't one thing relative to the QB position
That Baker does better than Lamar
The only thing Baker does better than Lamar
Is getting to the Cheesecake Factory in and out
In under a hour

Lamar Jackson is miles ahead of Baker Mayfield in terms of talent and on field production. No front office in the NFL, if given the choice, would take Mayfield over Jackson.

Well you know how it is. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Got to love an off season QB bashing thread.

I don't think posting stats should be considered "bashing." Then again, I don't think a poster should be permitted to call another deceptive for actually posting facts.

I get what it is. Just making an observation of the replies. Baker sucked last year. I don't even know if he will get better, actually I'm not feeling it is a sure thing. But this is just rehashing the same old argument.

I also don't think I called anybody deceptive.

Facts with a glaring lack of perspective are deceiving.

Is there one person who thinks the Browns are a better organization than the Ravens in any way?

These things here - based on 2019 - are all true. The question is whether the book is written or whether there are future twists in the story line and improvements to come from Baker. Last year at the same time you would of had to say Baker was a significantly better QB. Although Lamar is always going to be a more dangerous runner. I'm hoping and believe we will see a much better Baker in 2020. But we gotta wait and see. . . . . Unless you want to go on record today and call it, which to my mind would be incorrect and lean on the hating side of the argument.

The rest of the post - cheesecake factory and commercial jabs and the like - meh.

No, you didn't. I didn't mean to imply you did. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

This is just a hunch and not an attack, but I think you made your post because you didn't like the criticism of Baker.

However, you did not mention the post that attacked another poster by using words like deceiving, agenda, and facts. One of his facts is that Baker and Mahomes are the only two qbs to beat Lamar. Meanwhile, he ignores that Lamar is 2 and 1 against Baker.

Baker might end up being better than Lamar. I don't know. But, Lamar outperformed Baker last year and it wasn't even close. I can't believe some are debating it.

Wait. Yes, I can believe it.

mac, you are correct that the Rats have a better organization. No doubt about it.

However, I think there is no doubt that Dorsey did everything in his power to help Baker. He gave him the coaches he wanted and he surrounded Baker w/a ton of offensive weapons.

I've seen this inferred by you several times. I want to clarify the statement as I don't want to misunderstand - it appears as if you stating that Doresy hired Freddie as the HC based on Baker's preference and desire? Also you used plural - so which coaches did Dorsey hire because of Baker's directive/desire?

He did hire Freddie based on Baker's desire.

Where Vers is wrong is stating that was good for Baker. Baker has no idea what is good for Baker. Dorsey should have known better. And he paid the price for not doing the right thing by Baker regardless of Baker's wishes.

mac, one other thing. While I think Baker had a lot more in terms of weapons than Lamar did, I will say that Baltimore's OL was superior to the Brown's OL.

Both guys held the ball too long. I'm not going to look it up right now, but I remember reading something like Lamar only faced the 9th most pressures even though he held the ball longer than any other qb. That might not be quite right, but it's something like that.

Did I say that was "good for Baker?" I don't remember saying that. I could be wrong, though.

I thought I said something like Dorsey tried to do all he could to support Baker? If I didn't say that, I want to make it clear that is what I meant.

Are you sure I said "good for Baker" and not really trying to give Baker all he could to be successful?

You said Dorsey did everything in his power to help Baker. I took that to mean you meant he did things that were good for Baker.

In reality Dorsey should have known better. He was the most experienced adult in the room.

It sounded to me you were touting Dorsey honoring Baker's wishes as a good thing. It was anything but.

Ahhhh........okay.

I see why you took it that way. That isn't how I meant it. I always thought Dorsey went out of his way to give Baker what he wanted and to surround him w/weapons and people he trusted/preferred.

Btw------I actually think that was smart. It just didn't work out.

Also, here is a video of the decision to hire Freddie instead of Stefanski.

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/baker-mayfield-pushed-browns-promote-freddie-kitchens

Wow. Okay mac. You sound like those other guys.
When you can't debate fairly, attack the poster. We're done.

U can expand that question to almost Every team and u could make the argument all teams in the league ...

This clowns on his 3rd HC in 3 years and his 3rd gm in 4 years ... whose had more instability than that ...

The amazing part ... there’s plenty of teams like 25 or 26 that would love to have the roster we do ... Freddie made it real easy for these guys to look great ... we had plenty of talent and these guys have added to it ... if bake can play ... the skies the limit even with this moronic owner ...

Lamar had a fantastic season but TBH, I’d rather have Baker over Lamar. Yeah I’m in Bake’s corner, so I am somewhat bias, but LJ is going to get figured out, and he will take a beating and might have a short career, relatively speaking.

I hope he doesn’t prove me wrong.

Screw Baltimore.

That might happen, but it did not last year.

On the other hand, do you think it's plausible to think that teams "figured" Baker out? Do you think teams might have watched what Gregg Williams did? Do you think he might be a system qb who isn't good at reading coverages? Do you think he holds the ball too long? Or bails out of the pocket too early? Can teams figure those things out?

Yes, all of those are very possible. I know he under-performed in 2019, I also think some was not his own doing. Stupid coaching, an OL that wasn’t that good, bad scheming, some tipped passes that turned into INTs. There were a LOT of those.

I think OBJ was the last thing we needed, and I think he is a great player and want to keep him.

But did BM get too trigger-happy, trying to find him down the field? Maybe.

Well I watched the video link where 2 talking heads said that this was so. It was obviously a terrible decision - but I always remember the Dorsey quote where he is on record as he flexed his muscles to get Freddie. And maybe he went and did that because Baker said Freddie needed to be the HC? .... but that hadn't been the way I thought it had gone down. I'm shocked an experienced football guy would make such a crucial decision based on a rookie QB.

I agree w/some of what you said.

I think the coaching was bad.

I don't blame OBJ for Baker's problems. LOL..........that's absurd. Baker could have had Kenny Britt, Corey Coleman, and Ricardo Louis. You are buying into the Dark Sides commentary too much, bro.

The OL was about average in pass blocking according to PFF. They aren't an end-all, but Next Gen stats gave the Brown's pass blocking favorable reviews, as well.

Tipped passes did turn into picks. On the other hand, many of those passes were high, hard fastballs.

I also think he had a lot of would-be picks "dropped."

Look bro............I'm not saying that he can't be a good qb, but he was really, really bad last year while Lamar was the freaking MVP.

Come on.............why are we having this debate?

I’ll add: Baker has very good arm talent, has guts.

I don’t think it’s smart for a QB with his bone structure/size to bulk up. He needs long muscles, needs to be sleeker and nimble on his feet. I think that was BQ’s downfall: he fell in love with the mirror in the weight room.

I wasn’t blaming OBJ, I was trying to say that by having an elite WR like him - and lets face it, elite WRs need/want their targets lol - it was tempting.

I also saw a lot of outright whiffs from our OL last year man, we had some poor blocking at times. I don’t care what the #s say - I know what I saw, much too often.

I do agree that Baker has excellent arm talent and a lot of moxie.

I haven't given up on him. In fact, when some guys say to move on from him, I argue that it's too early to do that and we need to make him the starter next year.

I just get sick of all the excuses and attacks on anyone who tries to look at his performance objectively. Look, I don't like the guy as a person. I think he is a piece of crap. But, that doesn't mean I don't want him to succeed. I'm getting older........and my main thing is I want to see the Browns win. I hope Baker can help them accomplish that. Tired of listening to the constant accusations that I am lying and when I provide a link to prove I was telling the truth, they move onto something else. It's a freaking joke!

Lamp.............does Michael Thomas get targeted a lot? Hopkins? Julio Jones? Mike Evans? Did Antonio Brown? Jerry Rice? Randy Moss?

The argument that we threw to OBJ too much blows my mind. I don't think we threw to him enough and I listened to guys who played in the NFL say the very same thing. Get your best player the ball, especially during crunch time.

And yes, you saw whiffs. Guess what, if you cared enough, you would have saw the same damn thing w/every freaking team in the league.

I know the game, bro. And I know what the hell I saw. Baker held the ball too long on too many occasions and he also left the pocket too early too many times.

I'm not saying he didn't get pressured. Of course he did. But, all QBs face pressure.

Look man, I'm trying to educate you. You're a friend. I won't even talk to those other guys anymore. However........I am not asking you to agree......just trying to shed some real insight.

Yeah vers, I know your thoughts on Baker, as a person and a potentially good QB. I know you’re mostly objective and not dug in on one side or the other.

Sorry for ranting, bro.

Lol! Don’t be sorry.... no need to be. I didn’t even know you were ranting lol.

It wasn't that they were attacking Baker. Trust me, by the end of the season I was thinking he was done as a starter. So, any criticism he gets, is deserved. The thing with the thread is it is just one of the usual "dead time" posts. It's only purpose was to show how bad baker was. To me it is just redundant to just keep stirring up the bickering. The facts are that he sucked. I saw nothing the proved to me he was a franchise guy, but I'm trying to enter the year with a clear mind and just see what happens.

This team has battered me to the point that I can never REALLY believe they are going to be good. It sucks.

Who is debating that? Goodness gracious, talk about making stuff up. You're arguing against yourself here. No one said that. Why do you keep making things up?

It's the standard operating procedure at the moment. It's the same pattern on multiple threads

While this MAY be true don't forget RG III was talked about just like Lamar is now.

We're gonna play that game?