DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns sign DE Adrian Clayborn

I understand conceptually what you are saying. If I was a GM and I had all of my prospects graded by tiers and within tiers, I'd probably do as you suggest. At the same time, we can see that some level of targeting is already occurring. The team has left itself with one glaring, inescapable hole to fill at LT. The position value is commonly understood to be among the highest of all positions. Contrary to your notion that letting the draft come to you primarily in the late rounds. Everything points to the team selecting a LT with the first pick. To my simple mind that is targeting.

I want the team to be disciplined enough to follow their board. I'm presuming that Davidson would be graded among the top ten DL and I also presume his positional value to be equal to or greater than any of the safeties available in round 2. As discussed elsewhere on the board, linebackers and safeties might not be valued as highly by this FO as they may be by other teams. Similar to how I see the 49'er.

So that's how I arrived at my post. With all that said I do understand your point. For the sake of the team let's be glad I'm not turning in the cards for these draft picks, LOL.

Earlier in the thread, I said something about how the Browns could go w/Vernon and Clayborn on the edges and Myles and Ogunjobi inside on certain passing situations. Those are four good rushers.

One thing that is being overlooked and should be addressed is that while Clayborn's pass rushing is very good, he is terrible as a run defender. I posted his PFF run grade earlier. I think it was around 57.2.

Thus, I don't think he is a guy who will just assume a starting role if one of our two starters go down. I see him being used only in passing situations. Unlike Vernon, Clayborn does a terrible job of setting the edge and shedding blockers.

That's a great point and something I forgot about. Good memory.

I just hope that this isn't a precursor to letting Vernon go.

J/c

As some of you know, I have a close friend who’s been on the Falcons for a handful of years now. I haven’t talked to him much about football recently, but decided to ask him because of our signings of Hooper and Clayborn. Here’s a brief synopsis of what he said:

Clayborn
- Very good guy; good leader; never negative
- Really good in passing situations (3rd and long)
- Can only play on one side of the D
- Tampa Bay couldnt block him
- It’s ideal if he can just focus on big passing downs and not be on the field as much
- He also thought he’d move outside with Garrett inside on the same side FWIW

Hooper
- Don’t know him as well as a person, but he’s as genuine and consistent as anyone
- Extremely smart with nuances in the defense. He can get open with any coverage.
- One of their hardest workers after practice
- He’ll be Baker’s 3rd down specialist .. maybe even lead the AFC in 3rd down conversions
- What will be difficult to defend: lining him up in the slot and running fades in the red zone with OBJ or Landry working from the outside to underneath him
- He thinks it’s paramount that Baker and he develop chemistry ... when he and Ryan had time under their belts, that’s what took his game to the next level because of his intricate type of game


Not sure if that’s anything we don’t already know, just passing it along

Thanks for making a football post.

It will nice to have some vets to lead some of young guys

How ironic.

Maybe our board has 3-4 LT's in the top ten? One is bound to be there..


I actually feel a top defender is more important than a LT, but, that would be me selecting for need, so I won't.

I might disagree with that, but who am I.

Our true needs are really just LB and OL and S at this point.

We could use more depth at CB and WR but that's about it.

We need much better play from our QB. He was terrible last year. We also need sound coaching. And team chemistry.

All of that is also true.

I do agree w/you about LBer and safety. We have some serious issues there. Especially LBer.

Btw............I was looking at your sig. Is that Baker's face? If so, I bet it was from his rookie year or college. His face looked much fuller last year.

Yes this is pre-fat baker.

At this point, minus the 4-5 guy who might be starters available, you are signing for positional needs.


.

I don't understand what your point is. Please explain.

Look.........if you think I was bad-mouthing the FO. I wasn't.

If you are simply defending the FO and don't want to talk logically. Go talk to guys like WSU.

I'm done playing that stupid game.

If I misunderstood you......I will apologize in advance. I just can't figure out what your point is other than the two things I mentioned.

Scribbles about Cleveland Browns making some quiet moves that could pay off
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04...ld-pay-off.html


CLEVELAND, Ohio – Scribbles in my Cleveland Browns notebook as they signed free agent defensive linemen Adrian Clayborn and Andrew Billings:

1. Writing about a defense needing to stop the run is sort of boring. It’s obvious. Good teams don’t allow the opposition to run all over them. Good teams find huge guys to plug up the middle of the line, and some big, quick guys to play defensive end.

2. It’s more fun to write about quarterbacks, running backs, receivers and outside rushers who sack the QB. But if you’re a Browns fan, you know how your team has been an embarrassment against the run most seasons.

3. Last year, the Browns gave up 145 yards per game on the ground. That ranked 30th. Here are the bottom five teams vs. the run and the records: 28th Jacksonville Jaguars (6-10), 29th Carolina Panthers (5-11), 30th Cleveland (6-10), 31st Washington Redskins (3-13), 32nd Cincinnati Bengals (2-14).

4. You don’t need an Ivy League analytics degree to figure out there is a strong connection between losing and a lousy defense vs. the run. Being superb against the run doesn’t guarantee winning big. The two best run defenses in 2019 were the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the New York Jets. Both had 7-9 records.

5. Cleveland.com’s Ellis Williams did a film study of Andrew Billings, the former Cincinnati Bengal defensive tackle signed by the Browns to a one-year, $3.5-million deal. In his story, Williams reported the Browns gave up 121 yards per game on the ground when Myles Garrett played. It rose to 174 yards in the six games that the defensive end was suspended.

6. But even with Garrett on the field, the Browns run defense still ranked 24th in the NFL. That’s why new GM Andrew Berry made two signings that could help the run defense, even if Adrian Clayborn and Billings are not big names.

7. Billings is 25 years old, the age range (middle-20s) where the new Browns front office likes to add free agents. The Browns starting defensive tackles are projected to be Larry Ogunjobi and Sheldon Richardson.

8. In his story, Williams does a nice job going deep on defensive line play and why the 330-pound Billings is better vs. the run than the 305-pound Ogunjobi. Size is part of it, and so is strength. The theme is the Browns need depth in the middle of the line beyond Richardson and Ogunjobi. They both played 73 percent of the snaps, probably too many. Fatigue became an issue.

9. Young defensive tackles Daniel Ekuale and Devaroe Lawrence had some buzz during training camp and the preseason, but neither did much when the games counted. Veteran Chris Smith was supposed to help, but his girlfriend was killed in a traffic accident two weeks after the birth of their daughter. It was a lost season for him.

10. Profootballfocus (PFF) isn’t the ultimate judge, but it’s interesting to look at how they rank players. Among defensive tackles who played at least 50 percent of their team’s snaps in 2019, the Browns’ Richardson ranked a strong No. 17 out of 72. But Ogunjobi was 66th.

11. Billings ranked No. 40 by PFF. It’s respectable and an upgrade over Ogunjobi, who is more of a pass rusher.

12. The Browns signed 31-year-old defensive end Adrian Clayborn to a two-year, $6.5-million deal. He is more of a pass rusher than run stopper. He should not be viewed as a replacement for veteran defensive end Olivier Vernon. Rather, he can give some relief to Garrett (who played 87 percent of snaps last season) and Vernon (missed six games to injuries).

13. Clayborn had some major injuries early in his career. But he’s missed only five games in the last five years. He played 42 percent of the defensive snaps last year in Atlanta, where he had four sacks. An NFL executive (not from Browns) told me Clayborn is a “good locker room guy,” the kind of veteran the Browns have been adding on short contracts.

This article sounds logical, but it's pretty easy to tell when a guy really doesn't know the game.



Clayborn is a liability against the run. His outside containment woes have long been a concern. Billings brute strength allows him to make quick penetration at times. However, once engaged, he has a very poor history of shedding blocks and making tackles.

It is the off-season, though. Every new guy is going to make a significant difference and put the Browns over the top.

Yeah, Terry Pluto is a hack....

That isn't what I said.

I implied that he isn't really a football guy. He is a basketball guy. I like his articles, but neither of those two guys are known to be good run defenders. Especially Clayborn.

And scheme/game planning, and run-stopping, and attitude. We're always being out schemed, run over, and beat up. IMHO

Good signings and good article. Also JoJo signing is encouraging. I don't know his game, but sounds like he can help flipping the field some.

I like Pluto because he seems to know our players and team. He also groks the group. I appreciate the post. Thanks.

in fairness, versatile, the writer says in point 12 that clayborn is a pass rusher not a run stopper, so he seems to be aware of that. and I think his point about Billings is that he could be an upgrade over obi in stopping the run, if for no other reason than bulk. more than one person has commented on here about obi being “light in the pants”.

and it goes without saying that we fans are going to see these two as the next Jerry sherk and the next bill glass or Lenny ford.

Every single Cleveland based article, video or otherwise is just plain hot garbage. Once I see the source I normally just skip over them honestly.

j/c...

He's a lefty.

I thought I read somewhere that he had a condition since birth on one side of his body

I wasn't trying to bash Pluto. Not being a football guy isn't my idea of an insult. Football isn't all that important.

I just wanted to clarify that neither are considered big-time run stuffers. Although, I expect Billings to make some nice plays against the run, because he does beat blocks quickly at time due to his strength.

I actually like both signings. Just trying to talk some football.

I agree. I actually think Billings will end up being a good pickup given the cost. He’ll give us a good option on run downs and short yardage

For the most part, I agree with you... however I was surprised that article was from Pluto. I consider him an outlier in a pretty poor Cleveland Sports media.

One of my questions going into last year was depth, the starters on paper looks great, but we all know that ALL teams almost never make it through the year with their starters. We were throwing out first time players......dudes I had never even heard of in my life (which is typical for the Browns weeks 13-17).

We need guys who have high awareness even if they aren't what they used to be. Guys who can play and not get roasted for 3-5 weeks. Just average, not game changers, just hold down the fort type guys. I don't know what Clayborn has left, but if he can just be a rotational and solid to average backup, it's money well spent.


I said the same thing about the Fullback....if he can play special teams and be productive whatsoever it was worth a 7th round pick....if he is a solid FB then it's a huge win.

Same thing applies here, if he can be a decent backup, perfect, if he is anything more it's a big win.

I like this signing a lot - and agree, in order to be successful you need to have players playing back up or sharing snaps that don't create a precipitous drop off in talent from your starters. I've always maintained Vernon played very well when he was healthy - I think Clayborn is most definitely a rotation player, but when he comes in on passing downs he gives the Browns a lot of options on the DL.

I think the only position we had adequate depth at last year was CB ... and even then it seemed like the group took a small step back as Ward and Greedy were not quite the tandem we hoped for.

This is why it made no sense to some posters why cheap, productive, experienced guys still on rookie deals like Ogbah and Nassib were cut just because they weren't Dorsey guys. Then we see their production on other teams in 2019. What was even more frustrating was knowing players like Vernon had a recent injury history.

I'd like to see a little more stoutness vs the run in our backup/rotational guys. Billings seems like he might be part of the solution there, but I'd like to see more depth guys that can help stop the run. I think stopping the run should be a priority with Baltimore and Cinci being in our division (and Pitt's run game is usually no joke, either).

I was never that worried about Nassib - but I was an Ogbah fan and thought he was decent. I have not followed either since they left the team.

I think Billings will easily beat out Ogunjobi for the starting job. JMO

Ian Rapoport reports that the Raiders have signed DE Carl Nassib to a three-year, $25 million deal that includes $17 million fully guaranteed at signing.

Adam Schefter of ESPN is reporting that the Miami Dolphins have agreed to a two-year contract with former Cleveland Browns defensive end Emmanuel Ogbah. Ogbah was traded by John Dorsey last year in a trade with the Kansas City Chiefs for Eric Murray, both of which were on the last year of their deals. Ogbah was good for the Chiefs, leading the team in sacks, before he suffered a season-ending injury. The deal is reportedly worth up to $15 million with $7.5 million guaranteed.

While I agree with you that the loss of Garrett helped contribute to those losses, Baker's play was also a contributing factor.