In the 70s and 80s? Yep, it was what people did. It's not like you're going to find me dropping acid, eating ludes, snorting sopors or coke today. But back then you would have found me doing it now and then. Hell, I don't even drink alcohol anymore. Just a little weed once in a while and I took a 20 year break from that until the last few years.
j/c It would appear that this thread has taken yet another turn. I kinda liked the first turn better. At least it veered where it did without conflict knee-deep in the mix.
Progressive Youth Activist Groups Send Biden List Of Demands, Previewing Clash Between Two Wings Of Party
Topline: Hours after Bernie Sanders dropped out of the presidential race, handing the Democratic nomination to Joe Biden, the former vice president received a list of demands from seven youth progressive activist groups outlining what he will have to do to earn their vote in November.
The letter, authored by Alliance for Youth Action, Justice Democrats, March for Our Lives Action Fund, NextGen America, Student Action, Sunrise Movement, and United We Dream Action, is an indication of what’s to come for the presumptive Democratic nominee who will face calls to unite the party with a progressive candidate now missing from the race.
"Exclusively anti-Trump messaging won’t be enough to lead any candidate to victory,” the letter reads. “We need you to champion the bold ideas that have galvanized our generation and given us hope in the political process.”
Among the demands from the liberal groups are for Biden to endorse progressive platform linchpins such as Medicare-for-All and the Green New Deal (Biden has refused to back a government-run healthcare program but has warmed to proposals included in the Green New Deal.)
Sanders, for his part, did not endorse Biden in his live stream message to supporters Wednesday. Instead, the Vermont senator said he would remain on the ballot in upcoming primaries so that he can continue to accrue delegates and have sway at the party’s convention.
President Trump spent the afternoon seeking to drive a wedge between the two wings of the Democratic party, tweeting that he “can’t see” progressive icon Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez endorsing Biden for president.
What we don’t know: Who Biden will pick as his running mate and whether he will use the pick to unite the party.
Further reading: Thomas Friedman of the New York Times argues Biden should not simply pick a vice president before the convention, but a “unity cabinet.”
“Biden needs to show that he isn’t running to be president of the 48 percent (or less), as Trump is,” wrote Friedman. “He needs to show he’s running to be a majority president, a unity president — but not just unity for unity’s sake, but unity of purpose based on a set of shared values for rebuilding America.”
Dear Joe Biden, here is how you can earn our support
Anti-Trump messaging won’t be enough to lead any candidate to victory. Young people need someone who will champion bold ideas
Dear Vice-President Joe Biden,
We write to you as leaders from a diverse array of organizations building political power for young people in the United States. We are all deeply committed to ending a presidency that has set the clock back on all of the issues that impact our lives.
While you are now the presumptive Democratic nominee, it is clear that you were unable to win the votes of the vast majority of voters under 45 years old during the primary. With young people poised to play a critical role deciding the next president, you need to have more young people enthusiastically supporting and campaigning with you to defeat Donald Trump. This division must be reconciled so we can unite the party to defeat Trump.
Messaging around a “return to normalcy” does not and has not earned the support and trust of voters from our generation. For so many young people, going back to the way things were “before Trump” isn’t a motivating enough reason to cast a ballot in November. And now, the coronavirus pandemic has exposed not only the failure of Trump, but how decades of policymaking has failed to create a robust social safety net for the vast majority of Americans.
The views of younger Americans are the result of a series of crises that took hold when we came of political age, and flow from bad decisions made by those in power from both major parties. For millions of young people, our path to a safe and secure middle-class life is far more out-of-reach than it was for our parents or grandparents. We grew up in a world where “doing better than the generation before us” was not a foregone conclusion.
Instead, we grew up with endless war, skyrocketing inequality, crushing student loan debt, mass deportations, police murders of black Americans and mass incarceration, schools which have become killing fields, and knowing that the political leaders of today are choking the planet we will live on long after they are gone. We’ve spent our whole lives witnessing our political leaders prioritize the voices of wealthy lobbyists and big corporations over our needs. From this hardship, we’ve powered a resurgence of social movements demanding fundamental change. Why would we want a return to normalcy? We need a vision for the future, not a return to the past.
New leadership in November is an imperative for everything our movements are fighting for. But in order to win up and down the ballot in November, the Democratic party needs the energy and enthusiasm of our generation. The victorious “Obama coalition” included millions of energized young people fighting for change. But the Democratic party’s last presidential nominee failed to mobilize our enthusiasm where it mattered. We can’t afford to see those mistakes repeated.
Young people are issues-first voters. Fewer identify with a political party than any other generation. Exclusively anti-Trump messaging won’t be enough to lead any candidate to victory. We need you to champion the bold ideas that have galvanized our generation and given us hope in the political process. As the party’s nominee, the following commitments are needed to earn the support of our generation and unite the party for a general election against Donald Trump:
Policy:
Climate change: Adopt the frameworks of the Green New Deal and make specific commitments around achieving a just transition to 100% clean energy by 2030 for electricity, buildings and transportation; restart the economy by committing to mobilizing $10tn in green stimulus and infrastructure investments over 10 years that will create tens of millions of good jobs of the future; and commit to take on and prosecute the fossil fuel executives and lobbyists who have criminally jeopardized our generation.
Gun violence prevention: Take an intersectional, comprehensive approach to preventing gun violence with the goal of reducing gun deaths by 50% in 10 years. In addition to the policies laid out in your plan, you should also include the following from the Peace Plan for a Safer America: call for a federal licensing program; hold the gun industry accountable by directing the IRS to probe the NRA’s not-for-profit status. Expand federal funding and resources for community-based violence intervention programs. Adopt Julián Castro’s People First Policing Plan and acknowledge that police brutality is gun violence.
Immigration: Commit to immediate executive actions to expand Daca and other policies to protect people from deportation and hold Ice and CBP accountable. Executive actions must also close the vast and cruel web of detention camps and not replace it with a practice of tagging people with electronic monitors or surveillance sold by big-money corporations. Commit to ending the collaboration between local police and Ice and the use of racial profiling by deportation agents and local police that pulls people into the deportation pipeline. Commit to providing guaranteed access to counsel for all while making immigration courts independent and free of political manipulation. Commit to repealing the 1996 immigration reform laws and creating citizenship pathways for all undocumented people without harmful provisions. Amid the current Covid-19 pandemic, it is clear that all people, including undocumented immigrants, must be included in any healthcare reform as viruses do not discriminate on the basis of immigration status.
Healthcare: Champion comprehensive reform of our criminal legal system. Incentivize states to cut their incarcerated population by 50% while supporting massive investment in housing, drug treatment, diversion, education and health programs. End the war on drugs and support the equitable legalization of marijuana based on proposals laid out by Senator Booker, Senator Warren, Senator Sanders, Secretary Castro and others.
Education: Support free undergraduate tuition for public colleges, universities and vocational schools for all students, regardless of income, citizenship status or criminal record. Provide economic relief to 45 million Americans and stimulate the economy by addressing the student debt crisis and canceling the entire $1.7tn in student loan debt.
Wealth tax: Support an annual tax on the extreme wealth of the wealthiest 180,000 households in America who are in the top 0.1% based on proposals laid out by Senator Sanders, Senator Warren and Tom Steyer.
Foreign policy: Commit to seek congressional approval on any authorization of war and support repeal of 2001 and 2002 Authorization for Use of Military Force.
Democracy: Support the elimination of the filibuster and the expanding of the supreme court. Call for the adoption of strong anti-corruption reforms laid out by Senator Warren and Senator Sanders. Champion a voting system that works for all Americans. Every citizen should be automatically registered to vote, get to cast their ballot in a secure, accessible way that fits their needs, and never have their right to vote taken away for any reason. Get big money out of politics and make the passage of HR 1 a top priority.
Personnel and future administration: Commit to appointing progressive elected officials who endorsed Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren as transition co-chairs, such as representatives Ro Khanna, Pramila Jayapal, Ayanna Pressley or Katie Porter.
Pledge to appoint zero current or former Wall Street executives or corporate lobbyists, or people affiliated with the fossil fuel, health insurance or private prison corporations, to your transition team, adviser roles or cabinet.
Appoint a trusted progressive to lead the White House presidential personnel office to ensure that the entire administration is free of corruption and staffed with public servants committed to advancing a progressive agenda.
Commit to put trusted voices on issues of importance to our generation on your campaign and transition team’s policy working groups, such as Governor Inslee’s policy team on climate; Senator Warren’s policy team on financial regulation; Aramis Ayala, Bryan Stevenson and Larry Krasner on criminal justice; Bonnie Castillo of National Nurses United and Dr Abdul El-Sayed on healthcare; and Mary-Kay Henry, Sara Nelson and Senator Sanders’ policy team on jobs and the economy.
Commit to appointing advisers, such as Joseph Stiglitz, to your national economic council and office of management and budget who believe in the principles of the Green New Deal and a rapid transition to a 100% clean and renewable energy economy.
Appoint a national director of gun violence prevention in the White House who will oversee the policy platform, coordinate across agencies and incorporate a survivor-centered approach. Commit to appointing an attorney general who will re-examine the Heller decision.
Appoint a DHS secretary committed to holding Ice and CBP agents accountable and dismantling Ice and CBP as we know them.
Create a White House commission to represent the voices and needs of immigrants who can work together to ensure that executive actions and legislative solutions address the needs of immigrant communities.
Create a taskforce on young Americans at the White House focused on the many issues unique to the next generation’s health, wellbeing and economic stability. The leadership of the office should directly report to the president and work regularly with the domestic policy council, national economic council and office of public engagement. Taskforce representatives from each agency should be appointed by and report to respective secretaries and taskforce leadership and focus on policy and administrative action that directly affects every aspect of young people’s lives. This office should engage directly with young people across the country and ensure representation from youth movement leaders in its ranks.
In addition to these policy and personnel commitments, you and your campaign must demonstrate a real passion and enthusiasm for engaging with our generation and its leaders. It’s not just about the policies and issues, but also about how you prioritize them, how you talk about them and how you demonstrate real passion for addressing them. You must demonstrate, authentically, that you empathize with our generation’s struggles.
Calling for solutions that match the scale, scope and urgency of the problems we are facing is not radical. If nothing else, this moment of crisis should show that it is the pragmatic thing to do. We want results and we’re leading some of the movements that will help deliver them.
The organizations below will spend more than $100m communicating with more than 10 million young members, supporters and potential voters this election cycle. We are uniquely suited to help mobilize our communities, but we need help ensuring our efforts will be backed up by a campaign that speaks to our generation. Our generation is the future of this country. If you aim to motivate, mobilize and welcome us in, we will work tirelessly to align this nation with its highest ideals.
That isn't me talking, that's all those radical socialist extremist commies the centrists dems pointed out... If Biden wants to beat Trump, this is now his only path to victory. The centrist can rig primaries but progressives can rig (determine) the victories...
Biden took notice but this is his response so far:
Joe Biden called for letting more people get Medicare right after Bernie Sanders dropped out of the Democratic primary
In a shift left, Joe Biden has unveiled a proposal to make people eligible for Medicare when they turn 60.
Biden has mainly advocated in favor of expanding Obamacare by providing people with higher subsidies and giving people the option to enroll in a government plan.
The idea doesn't go as far as the "Medicare for all" plan from Bernie Sanders, which would enroll everyone in the US into a government plan.
Former Vice President Joe Biden unveiled a proposal Thursday to let people enroll in Medicare starting at age 60.
The move marks a shift left for the presumptive Democratic nominee, whose healthcare plan has focused on building on Obamacare and giving all adults the option to buy into a new government plan that would be similar to Medicare.
Biden released his idea just a day after his "Medicare for All" rival Bernie Sanders suspended his campaign. Sanders wanted to mostly outlaw private health insurance in favor of enrolling everyone living in the US into a single government plan that would offer more benefits than Medicare does currently.
The battle over how far to extend the government's role in paying for healthcare became one of the leading feuds in the Democratic primary, and "Medicare for all" gained the support of former presidential hopefuls Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren, and Kirsten Gillibrand.
Biden said in a post on Medium that he was calling for lowering the age that people can sign up for Medicare as a direct response to the coronavirus pandemic. Expanding eligibility, he said, would "help people find more secure footing in the long term once we have emerged from this crisis."
"It reflects the reality that, even after the current crisis ends, older Americans are likely to find it difficult to secure jobs," Biden said in his announcement.
The highest proportion of people who are uninsured in the US are between the ages of 19 and 34, but older Americans who don't qualify for Medicare yet have had the hardest time finding affordable health insurance because they can be charged three times more than younger beneficiaries. At the same time, the inclusion of older beneficiaries in the markets also make costs rise for younger beneficiaries, who tend to have fewer healthcare needs.
Biden provided few specifics Thursday other than to say he was directing his team to develop a plan to lower the age of Medicare eligibility. Currently, people are allowed to enroll in the program once they turn 65. Some people with severe health needs, including people on dialysis or people with Lou Gehrig's disease, can also qualify.
The latest idea adds to Biden's former proposal, which he frequently billed as a "build on" Obamacare, formally known as the Affordable Care Act. As he fought for his party's nomination, he frequently accused Democratic rivals of wanting to "get rid of Obamacare" by pushing "Medicare for all."
The government plan he pushed for instead, often called a "public option" would be available to people as an alternative to private health insurance, rather than having the government become the sole payer for healthcare services.
Biden's plan would let people stay on private insurance they get through work if they choose, or be on Obamacare or the public option.
The portion that would pay for people to enroll in Medicare at age 60 would be financed out of general government revenues rather than the Medicare Trust Fund. That specification is presumably to address criticisms about Medicare's solvency. According to the Social Security and Medicare Trustees report, the part of Medicare that pays for inpatient hospital and hospice care will run out of full funding in 2026. Unless Congress fixes the financing, the program would pay a diminishing amount of reimbursement for medical costs.
Of course Biden's little give was nowhere near enough:
'Why the Unnecessary 6?': Medicare for All Advocates Warn Biden That Lowering Age to 60 Solves Nothing
"These policies are what I would expect from Republicans. This is not a 'big overture' by any stretch of the imagination."
Progressives on Thursday were quick to call foul after it was reported that Joe Biden, now the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, put forth a pair of policy proposals—one lowering the Medicare age to 60 and the other a student debt relief program—purportedly designed to win over supporters of Sen. Bernie Sanders who instead saw the plans as woefully insufficient.
"We have to do more to ease the economic burden on working people," Biden said in a tweet announcing the plan. "So today, I'm adopting two new policies to help deliver relief."
"That he's willing to shift on these issues after telling us they were 'pie-in-the-sky' indicates that we can go further," tweeted Briahna Joy Gray, Sanders' campaign press secretary.
Gray's optimism, however, was not shared by everyone on the left. In a lengthy Facebook essay reacting to the proposals, CUNY professor Corey Robin questioned how Biden could hope to pass anything approximating his plans through Congress.
"The rule of politics is you never get 100% of what you want," said Robin, adding, "Our sense of political time is not keeping up with actual time, and I find the euphoria of complacency and incrementalism totally mystifying."
Greg Sargent and Paul Waldman of the Washington Post broke the story Thursday, reporting that Biden was announcing the shift in policy as a way to show Sanders supporters that what he now supports is "significantly more liberal than what he supported when he was vice president."
As Sargent and Waldman explained, the policy proposals show that Biden and his campaign are acknowledging the political reality that Sanders and his movement have changed the national conversation around domestic politics:
There will, of course, be many Sanders supporters who will see these proposals as insufficient, and there's a reasonable case to be made for that position. But you could also see them as a validation of Sanders' entire strategy.
Sanders ran for president not just to win, but also to get his ideas in wide circulation and pull the Democratic Party to the left. And that’s precisely what's happening. The party is going to nominate a candidate with establishment roots and centrist instincts, but that candidate is adapting his policy agenda to move in Sanders' direction.
In an email to the Post, Economic Policy Institute director of research Josh Bivens said the overtures were further proof that the Sanders effect on the party was real and making a difference.
"Both of these ideas represent really welcome U-turns from what was damaging conventional wisdom even in big swaths of the Democratic Party for years," wrote Bivens.
But other progressives were skeptical, at best, of the content of Biden's proposals, calling the Medicare age rollback in particular a transparent attempt to placate concerns over the former vice president's commitment to single-payer healthcare that would benefit the private insurance industry more than taxpayers.
"These policies are what I would expect from Republicans," tweeted anthropolgist and political activist Michael Oman-Reagan. "This is not a 'big overture' by any stretch of the imagination."
In a tweet, healthcare advocacy group Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP) wondered sarcastically if Biden had added an unnecessary "6" to the eligibility age—a reference to Medicare for All's immediate eligibility at birth.
PNHP president-elect Dr. Susan Rogers, in exclusive comment to Common Dreams, said that Biden's so-called "big" gesture is simply not sufficient to address the healthcare crisis in the country, especially now that the coronavirus outbreak has paralyzed the economy and thrown millions out of work—and off of employer-provided insurance.
"One of the main benefits of Medicare for All is that it uncouples health coverage from employment, which is even more urgent now as our system of job-based private insurance is crumbling beneath our feet," said Rogers. "Reducing Medicare eligibility to age 60 does not resolve the underlying problem for the vast majority of working Americans and their families."
Only Medicare for All, added Rogers, packs the cost-saving punch to solve both the healthcare and fiscal crises now facing the country.
"By cutting out the waste of private insurance, Medicare for All could save nearly $600 billion a year while covering everybody for all medically necessary care," said Rogers.
Jean Ross, a registered nurse and president of National Nurses United, the nation's largest nurses, union welcomed Biden's proposal as an improvement over his previous opposition to expanding Medicare and credited labor organizers and others for pushing Medicare for All to the forefront of the national conversation.
"Lowering the Medicare eligibility age to 60 is a beginning step, and nurses and other activists will continue to press toward the essential goal of guaranteeing health care for everyone, regardless of age, ability to pay, race, gender, national origin, or immigration status," Ross told Common Dreams in an email, adding that Biden's proposal "also goes in the direction of the two current Medicare for All bills in the House and Senate sponsored by Rep. Pramilla Jayapal and Sen. Bernie Sanders that both begin by lowering the Medicare age to 55."
The growing movement and popular support for Medicare for All, said Ross, "is a tribute to years of hard work by nurses and other activists evidenced by the exit polls in every primary state that showed up to two thirds support of Democratic primary voters for replacing the present profit based system with a Medicare for all type alternative."
With the current COVID-19 pandemic acting as a "reminder of the failure of our present system"—including the millions who have lost their health care in the present crisis—Ross said that it's important more than ever "to press for the fundamental achievement of a more humane, patient centered recognition of health care as a human right for all."
Others pointed out that simply lowering the age by five years will not be enough to substantially solve the outrageous costs and wastes found in the for-profit system.
"The net effect of Biden's Medicare expansion would be to slough the most expensive patients off private insurance rolls and instead put them into government-subsidized, extremely profitable privatized Medicare Advantage plans," said healthcare activist and author Timothy Faust. "Some overture."
Sanders aide David Sirota was among those pointing out that the Biden proposal is less ambitious than one defeated in the Senate by former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) in 2010.
"For reference, lowering Medicare to age 60 is actually a retreat from Senate Dems' own push 10 years ago to lower it to age 55," Sirota tweeted.
Meanwhile, as Gray noted, the student debt relief aspect of the plan has very narrow, means-tested prerequisites.
The cost of offering all students relief, Gray added, is the equivalent of tax cuts for the rich pushed through Congress by President Donald Trump and his Republican allies in 2018.
"Cancelling ALL student debt only costs $1.6 trillion—that's about the same as Trump's tax cut, which helped no one but the rich," said Gray.
Ultimately, the question is who should be taken care of, Gray tweeted.
"If we can bail out Wall Street," Gray said, "we can bail out students."
Peogressives are planning to cast every progressive vote they can muster in the remaining primaries for Bernie while centrists Biden supporters stay home thinking Joe has the nomination in the bag. Bernie suspended his campaign, he didn't end it, thereby allowing him to continue gaining delegates until the delayed convention. At that time, if the convention is contested or Bernie catches up or passes Bidens delegate count, Bernie would still be in the running. However the most important reason and far more likely is that every delegate gives Bernie and the progressives more internal say over the rules of the democratic party and the foundations of it's platform.
It might all be pie in the sky dreaming, but at least they have a plan. That's probably more than can be said for team Biden as they wake up to the reality that they need the progressive vote to win.
Common bro ...Not picking a fight here but we need to get on board, it’s going to take every vote to beat trump. We’re going to need 5 million more votes then the GOP’ers since they have the electoral rigged. I get it, Sanders supporters and all. But trashing Biden in the process is what I expect from a trumpian GOPer.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Common bro ...Not picking a fight here but we need to get on board, it’s going to take every vote to beat trump. We’re going to need 5 million more votes then the GOP’ers since they have the electoral rigged. I get it, Sanders supporters and all. But trashing Biden in the process is what I expect from a trumpian GOPer.
Not me bro, I already said I'll vote for Joe. I'm just posting facts on the ground so don't kill the messenger. I'm sure Pit will do that when he gets here.
My question is, why would Biden listen to them? I suppose getting that list of demands out there is better than not, but did they really expect any real movement on his part? The only way they were going to push through any part(s) of their agenda was through voting, and that has failed. I do think Bernie has been screwed (again) by the DNC, but he also just didn't get the votes. I don't even want to get into who's right and wrong (other than the DNC being crooked), but all of the opposition just conceded to Joe freakin' Biden. I mean, if that doesn't tell them that their opinion doesn't matter, they're just never going to get it.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
Common bro ...Not picking a fight here but we need to get on board, it’s going to take every vote to beat trump. We’re going to need 5 million more votes then the GOP’ers since they have the electoral rigged. I get it, Sanders supporters and all. But trashing Biden in the process is what I expect from a trumpian GOPer.
He just can't help himself. To lose with any sense of grace seems to be an attribute he does not possess.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
People can read. You say you will support Biden on one hand and then keep posting your BS on the other hand. Speaking of typical....
I think he's just showing that a bunch of others who typically support the party - won't. They feel like their voices are constantly silenced (I'm not saying that's true or false). They're fed up with a corrupt process and leaders that pay them lip service without changing anything.
Someone really should let him know he was never actually in it.
I mean, they let him play, but his party was absolutely NEVER going to let him go anywhere with it.
ANY PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATE is never going to be elected as POTUS by corporatists.
We went to a Pink Floyd concert in Pittsburgh and one of the dudes w/us put a tab of 4-way windowpane in his eye so he could start tripping earlier. That did not end well.
My senior year in HS, 4 of us skipped school for a day. Someones parents went on vacation so.... Someones older brother bought us 2 bottles of 151. We all smoked cigarettes back then. We were throwing back shots at will. The 151 coupled with.....
.....ended when someone smoking happened to light some spilled 151 on his moms new wooden top coffee table. We were able to extinguish it but, as fate would have it, the coffee table didn't look new anymore.
If he says he plans to support Biden it's time he steps up to the plate. Bernie did.
Bernie did .... i haven’t heard an endorsement yet ... did i miss it? ... i may have ... but at his “I’m a quitter that’s gonna hold u hostage” presser the nicest thing he could say about him was he was a good man ...
I heard way more ... me me me than i did go joe go ....
But hey ... u got your shot in at ocd so good job ...
If you lived next door, I'd show you how wrong you are. I have no problem saying anything to anybody ever. And apparently you can heap it on but can't carry it yourself.
Let me refresh your memory: radicals, extremist, socialist, commies, Bernie Bros, lefties, not normal or regular people...
So now I'm full of crap. I just think you are too thin skinned to be in opposition to somebody you consider a friend. It's ok, we can have different views. If you were a carbon copy of me we wouldn't get along.
And when you start dropping labels like radical extremist, you can expect me to question your testicular fortitude...
I expect you to say and question a lot of things on the internet.
See, there is a difference between a Republican and an extremist right winger. A republican, while I disagree with them on certain policy issues, stand on their principals. Then you have what I call right wingers who feed on things like Jade Helm, Pizza Gate and the birther movement.
Now I don't consider extremists on the other end of the spectrum quite the same. They simply have poor math skills in believing you can give everything away for free.
Even Bernie admitted he had no idea what all of his programs would cost.
Now if you don't believe that the right would have attacked Bernie for being a socialist and several other of his flubs, you have at that.
As I said, I expect you to question a lot of things on the internet. But as of now all you are doing is undermining the only choice you have to defeat Trump in a public forum.
That's not testicular fortitude.
And you are also guilty of the very same thing you seem to hate that the right does. And Bernie did as well.
"The 1% is evil!"
Some of them may be described that way if that is your choice of words. But that is the exact same stereotyping that the right uses which you seem to hate so much. If you want to get right down to it, with Bernie owning three houses, he is one of the very 1# you claim to oppose.
But that's the type of idiocy one falls into when they stereotype.
There are people like Warren Buffet who are great people who use their wealth for good. He agree they should be paying more in taxes. But you have fallen into the very same trap you hate when others do it.
You claim to be against the 1# but supported a candidate who is the 1#.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
"Now I don't consider extremists on the other end of the spectrum quite the same. They simply have poor math skills in believing you can give everything away for free."
See it's your ridiculousness that starts these arguments! How do you measure the cost of investing in the people with a strong safety net, good education, good healthcare, and a guaranteed basic existence? Do some not deserve a roof? or food? or education? And how do you measure the return on those things? We can spend trillions on wars, how we paying for that? We can spend trillions on bailouts for billionaires and big businesses, how did we afford that? This is where you and I differ, I believe the party of the people should do for the people and not be GOPer light.
Nobody is looking for handouts, they just want a more equal system where people are all treated with decency and everyone has the opportunity to succeed. How many great inventions have we missed out on because education is a privilege? How many people suffer needlessly because healthcare is for the rich? GMAB
There is a reason why the Bern didn't get the votes. He was too far left. Mainstream majority America is Center right.
Keep dreaming,,, being center right gets you pulled farther and farther, and you wind up in a tea party hat railing against social security, even though you get a check.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
"Now I don't consider extremists on the other end of the spectrum quite the same. They simply have poor math skills in believing you can give everything away for free."
See it's your ridiculousness that starts these arguments! How do you measure the cost of investing in the people with a strong safety net, good education, good healthcare, and a guaranteed basic existence? Do some not deserve a roof? or food? or education? And how do you measure the return on those things? We can spend trillions on wars, how we paying for that? We can spend trillions on bailouts for billionaires and big businesses, how did we afford that? This is where you and I differ, I believe the party of the people should do for the people and not be GOPer light.
Nobody is looking for handouts, they just want a more equal system where people are all treated with decency and everyone has the opportunity to succeed. How many great inventions have we missed out on because education is a privilege? How many people suffer needlessly because healthcare is for the rich? GMAB
It's the way you go about this "equal system" that is the problem. I notice you skipped my point about Bernie even saying he had no idea what all of his programs would cost? Do you honestly expect people to vote for a blank check?
You can cut college costs by a huge margin without making it "free". If you actually wish to debate how to do that I'll be glad to post it but I already have several times.
Medicare for all is a great concept. One most agree with as long as it isn't forced on them. Forcing people into a government program will not get you elected. We both agree that a profit free system will be more cost effective for everyone. So build the program and as time goes on, everyone will move to it due to it being the best system. And don't say that won't work because "it will take everyone on it to work". Nations much smaller than ours, with far less people than our population make it work all the time.
I could go on. But it's not that our end goal is so much different. The main difference is that I understand you can't mandate and force feed things to the American people. I guess what you should have done is convince voters who preferred Joe over Bernie. Because the people spoke loudly and it isn't just me who disagreed with you.
Change by force simply won't work in this country.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So apparently I need to make something clear about me and most progressives I know. We are done with the democratic party. I no longer consider myself a dem. The party has proven itself to be dismissive of my views and values. The establishment treats progressives like second class citizens, then expects our vote to be automatic for the candidate they shove on us. That's no longer going to happen. Our votes have to be earned.
We can't change the two party system overnight, but we can change the power dynamics within it.
As for 2020, I will 100% be voting for Joe Biden even though I don't like him. But this is because I hate Trump not because of some BS dem loyalty or because Biden deserves it in any way. This is not a vote in support of dems, this is a vote against Trump.
So if you see me bashing Biden or bashing Trump, it's because neither represent me or my views and nothing to do with what you might believe. And that's all I wanted to say, and said that much for a friend.
As for 2020, I will 100% be voting for Joe Biden even though I don't like him. But this is because I hate Trump not because of some BS dem loyalty or because Biden deserves it in any way. This is not a vote in support of dems, this is a vote against Trump.
How ironic.
In 2016, I voted for Trump over hillary, for the same reason. Be prepared. If Biden wins, you'll catch hell and be labeled a Biden boy, and you'll get blamed for anything and everything bad, or even close to bad, that happens.
Nah man, the 'have an attorney draw up your will" was in reference to his post in a different (EE) thread.
If Biden wants to beat Trump, this is now his only path to victory. The centrist can rig primaries but progressives can rig (determine) the victories...
Someones older brother bought us 2 bottles of 151. We all smoked cigarettes back then. We were throwing back shots at will. The 151 coupled with.....
