DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... 28 Days Later: COVID-19

We aren't going to stop social distancing any time soon. In fact, measures like masks, no handshaking, no large groups, etc.. will likely be with us for more than the next year. Conventions, concerts, sporting events, and those sorts of things that involve large crowds are NOT going to be part of life until likely 2021. At least not in Ohio.

As we begin to reopen businesses, it will NOT be the same as it was. Things will reopen under the conditions of keeping people separated.

Maybe this means that restaurants don't have or allow tables/groups larger than six. Maybe they have to cut their seating in half in order to provide adequate spacing. Theaters may have to close off two-thirds of their seats.


Yes, wider testing could help identify asymptomatic cases, but the catch is that you'd need to test literally EVERYBODY. Constantly. There is absolutely zero realistic chance of that happening. So, what you're left with is the knowledge that you have two options: choose to stay at home, or be able to go back out, but know that you're going to potentially be exposed. As always, if you feel ill, stay home.

There's only one problem I see with your scenario. How can restaurants turn a profit by having only half capacity? How can a casino make a profit with having people six feet a apart at the craps and blackjack table and people at half the slot machines? I can certainly bring up other examples but I think this entire things is going to prove to be much less practical than some are thinking while maintaining social distancing.

Many businesses profits are projected on having crowd during peak hours. They would never make it running at half capacity at all times.

Nope. They won't. They absolutely won't be able to turn the profits they did beforehand, but they might be able to operate well enough to avoid going under so that when things are fully opened up they're still afloat.

They're just ideas, but ideas that seem preferable to the status quo. Obviously, you can still choose to do take out.

There are no easy answers, and there absolutely are not any perfect answers. All of this is literally attempting to figure it out on the fly because there is no playbook for this.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm basing my questions on what I have discussed with someone I know quite well and an interview with another. My step daughter works at a casino in Northern California. She is currently on layoff. She was told by the owners that there's no way they could turn a profit opening under social distancing guidelines. There's just not enough customers to offset the cost of operational expenses.

I also saw in interview with a local restaurant owner who pretty much said the same thing. That they depended on their rush during peak times and week ends for their profit. That social distancing would have them operating at a loss.

I'm all for finding practical solutions to help relax guidelines and open business back up. The health of our economy is second only to the health and life of our citizenry to me. I'm just not finding practical solutions for even the most basic of things thus far.

j/c...

Two weeks ago they were talking mid June. Now it's May 1. Did I miss the vaccine coming out? NOPE. I think this is as much to avoid more working class stimulus checks as anything else. I work from home and my wife has since this began. No word on if they will want her back in the office in May, so this hasn't impacted us much.

I'm hoping for the best for everyone but my gut says this is too soon. I don't think I'd run back to punch the clock May first without serious hazard pay. But I'm high risk so my view is different than the immortals out protesting the shut down.

Bottom line. They (either side) had/have no clue.

Then those businesses go under, or find a way to be profitable in the new model. They can't be shut down forever, and they can't be propped up forever. Rock and a hard place.

OCD - it's all about the loads in the hospitals. Ohio is significantly under the threshold and basically it looks like our peak will be low enough that we can begin to relax things before we even peak.


I doubt that this will be a carte blanche opening. Some businesses will likely (guaranteed?) still be closed.

Retail shops will likely reopen.
Beauty/barber shops will likely reopen.
Hospitals will likely start doing elective procedures again.
Schools might resume classes (which will allow some parents to go back to work).
Gyms are a maybe..... but, probably not.

Restaurants and entertainment... likely still going to be closed.
Basically, things that were shut down in the first wave of closures are most likely the things that will stay closed. The last closed items will likely be the best candidates for reopening.

Absolutely.
Nobody has ever done this before. They are literally making it up and figuring it out as they go.

Churches, opened or closed?

After thinking for a minute, I can't see them opening schools back up. We know kids get sick with it now and school was already a petri dish.

I'm sure they will be pressured to open them, but unless they can hold services while preserving distancing, I just don't see it.




I'm inclined to agree, but I think they may still try.
It would be nearly impossible to enforce distancing measures in a school. In class is one thing, but between classes is entirely another. You just wouldn't be able to do it.

Elementary schools, where kids don't change classrooms between periods, might be able to... which just leaves older kids to stay home, but that lets parents of young kids go back to work, at least. Parents of high schoolers already can go back to work. So, really, it's just middle school/jr high that might be a sticking point.



I expect them to start small and see how it goes. Open a few things, wait a few weeks and watch the numbers. If there isn't too much creep, then try opening some more things.

The goal, as always, is to simply manage the loads on the hospitals. We're not trying to stop the spread, just keep it at a rate that is manageable.

Two things from today...Friend from PA runs two (large) senior homes in a very large city with zero cases in either.

Doctors at work still taking it all seriously but talking about horribly incorrect models at this point. Obviously I'm not privy to most of their shop talk but I catch a bit here and there.

Everyone can draw their own conclusions on this. I'm beginning to think its losing steam as a story and in urgency and I'm in the trenches daily. We're still prepared and being VERY diligent in protection and PPE conservation but people starting to scratch their heads.

Today's numbers: Zero patients, 200+ tested with no positives but about 5 confirmed (we're not told too much) workers with it diagnosed by their physicians.

Ya gotta remember that there is a significant lag time between infection and a hospital case. It can take up to two weeks from the time you are infected to the time you show symptoms, and then it is likely to be at least another week after that before your illness progresses to the point where you need the E.R., so any measures taken will need to be given a good amount of time before you can feel confident that we didn't overshoot our goal.

I don't think anyone has yet to take their foot off the throttle but people are starting to wear mentally. IF something should come I have concerns about folks holding up. Still hoping it fizzles. It'd be just fine by me...

I agree. I don't think there is a chance you can send kids back. That's a disaster waiting to happen, unless of course, you're Dr. Oz.

I would not be comfortable sending my kids back. Anecdotal, but quite a few of my friends in my neighborhood are absolutely against sending their kids back this year.

Hell, universities have already pushed allowing students back into late summer.

Are you talking about the May 1st date?

If so, I have talked to some of the educators I used to work with in SC and they are almost positive school is done for this particular year.

Yes. Purp was talking about potential places, stores, and events they might try to authorize reopening in the first phase. He thought maybe schools so those parents could return to work.

So this happened to me today and had me a nervous wreck.

Backstory: In 2006 I had a DVT blood clot in my left leg that started in my upper groin and ran clear to my foot. It was crazy lethal and I was lucky it didn't kill me. Well it caused some permanent blood flow damage in that leg and due to that my left lower leg swells frequently. In 2015 that swelling led to an infection they called cellulitis, which is basically a red ball of flame just below the skin in the swelled area caused by Staphylococcus and Streptococcus bacteria. You need antibiotics to clear it up.

Well in the last week or so I've had a flare up. So yesterday I called my doctors office for an appointment. I found out they had closed their offices during the shut down and are doing tele-appointments. So I scheduled one for this morning. Long story short, even though I was 99.99% sure I just needed a round of antibiotics, my doctor being diligent and for my safety strongly urged (borderline insisted) that I go to the ER for an ultrasound on my leg to rule out another DVT.

I argued the case that I was high risk and didn't want to take a chance on being exposed to COVID-19. But he persisted because the risk of the DVT is just as bad and I actually had possible symptoms for that now.

So I had to go to the ER and fully expected to be surrounded by chaos and die.

When I got there, it was surprisingly empty. Within a couple of feet of the entryway, two triage nurses were stopping everyone to take a temp and determine if you had any COVID-19 symptoms. Those who did not show signs were ushered into the ER area and those who did were being taken to another wing of the hospital to be seen.

Everyone was in full PPE and safety was at the highest priority. The next nurse I saw got to listen as I explained my frustration for having to be there when I knew all I needed was antibiotics, but she explained how safe they were being and told me that I was actually much safer there than at a grocery store, which made me feel a little better.

Instead of going to the normal area with beds separated by curtains, I was taken to a one bed private room in the back of the ER where I was shut inside a closed door while those who seen me came in and out as needed. The ER doc examined me and ordered an ultrasound even though he agreed that I was right and it was most likely cellulitis.

Unlike the past, I was not taken to a room dedicated to ultrasounds, but had a portable machine and tech come to me. Although she told me she didn't see anything, I waited for about a half hour for the doctors official version of all clear. Then some $1400.00 + later (precoverage) I was given the prescription of antibiotics that was filled at Meijer Pharmacy for free.

I know it was better to be safe than sorry, but the risk of exposure or perceived risk compounded by the aggravation that I was 99.99% sure the antibiotics were all I needed made for a very rough afternoon. Just thought I'd share.

Wow, that sounds nerve wracking. Glad to hear you are ok and it's something simple to treat. And glad the Doctors took the highest precautions with you.

Thanks, me too Eve. Me too.

A little local tragedy. This is a facility I’ve worked in over the past 15 years. Providing hospice services. They’re good people serving a very underserved part of our community. Many mental health residents. Those that would otherwise be on the street.
There’s good nurses and good caregivers there. Big hearts. Poor budgets.
It’s heartbreaking to me what they’re going through.

https://www.kgw.com/mobile/article/news/...bc-fd45d1857319

——-an excerpt from the article—————-

“ PORTLAND, Ore. — The Oregon Department of Human Services filed a scathing review of the conditions at a Southeast Portland nursing home where at least nine residents, and possibly more than 14, have died from COVID-19 during the pandemic.

State officials say there have been 50 confirmed cases of COVID-19 at Healthcare at Foster Creek, located at 6003 SE 136th Avenue. As of Tuesday, nine residents had died from complications related to COVID-19, according to data from the Oregon Health Authority. On Wednesday, the home reported to the Oregon Department of Human Services that at least 14 resident deaths could be attributed to the coronavirus....”

Hopefully gyms will reopen.

I really need the stretching tools for my shoulder, as well as the arm bike. My arm is really starting to hurt.

Also .... barber shops. I'm starting to look like a cross between an aged rock star and a barbarian.

Tragic. Hats off to you for providing support in a disadvantaged community.

Poor access to quality healthcare is an issue for many.

Anecdotal: I recall being in medical device sales, specifically, spinal hardware. There were a number of patients that would have been recommended surgery had they had commercial health insurance, but instead were Medicaid patients. These folks were typically referred on to pain management specialists because there was no money in completely treating them.

Medicaid patients were passed on to physical therapists and pain management physicians.

Surgery was often discussed as a "last resort" for these patients. Tell them there's a chance of "irreparable harm" or "possible paralysis" as a scare tactic to divert them from an elective surgery in which there is little profit margin.

Potentially some very good news about Remdesivir, the anti-Ebola drug which was thought to potentially prevent Coronavirus replication.

The drug often has relatively serious side effects, so it is more a "for people than in serious trouble" drug, rather than anything preventative -- but it looks like it may substantially lower the death rate:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/16/health/coronavirus-remdesivir-trial/index.html

Haha I know ... a haircut is very needed

So your saying you look just like you always did.

Things are a bit different now. The Medicaid plans now have better coverage than many employer sponsored commercial plans. We laugh at how much better the Medicaid patients are covered than we (hospsital employees) are.

Well, it's great to hear the entire ER episode was a well-oiled machine. I've been trying to pass a kidney stone and have been like "nah" on the ER visit.

I got cellulitis after a bug bite while on a cruise ship in 2012... and again in 14. The first round of antibiotics didn't work and my leg blew up even bigger in 12. It was scary. Same thing with my doctor sending me for an emergency ultrasound. Not fun.

My doctor and the ER acted like they didn't know much about it, said it wasn't very common. The first antibiotic helped for a day or so and then was over-powered by the bacteria. They tried to prescribe the same weak anti again two years later til I insisted on the more powerful one.

Quick question... Both times that crap started with a fever and some unforgettable hallucinations - like, lasting the larger part of the entire night. Strange stuff. Did you experience that?

No nothing like that at all bro. Just stiffness, swelling and painful tender area that builds over time.

Doctor explains how coronavirus researchers teamed up with MLB for 10,000-person antibody study
Dr. Jay Bhattacharya discussed the importance of the study
By R.J. Anderson & Dayn Perry
Apr 14, 2020 at 8:18 pm ET

Major League Baseball will have about 10,000 employees partake in a vast and unique study on the viability of COVID-19 antibody testing, multiple league sources confirmed to CBS Sports. The study, which will not affect any timeline for a potential start of the 2020 MLB regular season, will include participants from 27 of the league's 30 teams and help determine whether test subjects have been infected with COVID-19 even if they never presented symptoms.

The tests, which were distributed at each participating team's ballpark, were available on a voluntary basis. The team's medical personnel had to know an individual was coming, and those who participated had to fill out a questionnaire, according to those familiar with the process.

The goal of the study is to determine the extent of the coronavirus pandemic in large metropolitan areas. It's a joint effort on the part of Stanford University, the University of Southern California, and the Sports Medicine Research and Testing Laboratory.

Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, of Stanford, discussed the tests with CBS Sports on Tuesday evening. He explained that the test results are typically available within 15 minutes after a blood sample is given through a pin [censored]. This test, which is similar in appearance to a pregnancy test, differs from the standard coronavirus test, as it doesn't indicate whether the virus is active -- just the presence of antibodies formed against COVID-19.

The antibody test, should it prove successful and viable, could be administered at home and yield results in a matter of minutes, unlike the current COVID-19 test that must be performed by healthcare professionals. The data from the study should help policymakers decide when it will be prudent to lift the various stay-at-home and shelter-in-place orders that are in effect across the vast majority of the U.S. It will do that, at least theoretically, by allowing for more accurate estimates on how prevalent the coronavirus is over and above the limited tests that have been performed thus far.

"You need to know how many people have been infected up to now," said Dr. Bhattacharya. "The only way to get that is through the antibody testing. That's why this is so important, this will help us forecast where the outbreak is headed and how we can head toward opening the economy back up. Without this, you're in the dark."

Dr. Bhattacharya was careful to note that this isn't an example of MLB leveraging its wealth and power to cut in line. Rather, he was connected to MLB through a third party. The 10,000 participants will include some players, but also front office personnel, concession stand workers and more.

"I just want to emphasize, I don't think MLB is doing this for their self-interest," said Dr. Bhattacharya. "They offered it up to everybody, and I made that clear. This is not just for athletes, the wealthy, or the one percent. They wanted to use this opportunity to contribute to public health. The city officials and the public health officials are the ones making the decisions. That's as best as I can tell as the main motivation behind this."

MLB is of course just one of many sports presently on hold because of the global pandemic. Dr. Bhattacharya said the pool of MLB employees will work well because it gives researchers an idea of COVID-19's prevalence throughout different metropolitan areas.

"I think this kind of testing, the MLB study that we're doing, is the start and not the end point. I would like this kind of testing to be done everywhere," said Dr. Bhattacharya. "Every community needs to know what the right next steps need to take from a local approach, and to open the economy, this is the right step."

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I saw an interview with the doctor last night and he thinks (not knows), that the virus is more widespread than we may think. Meaning, there are a lot more asymptomatic carriers, which would lower the mortality rate. So, this antibody test could show us a more accurate picture of the state of the pandemic.

I won't post the interview because it was on Fox news and that will anger 50% of the people watching it.

Nah ... worse than ever.

Florida opening beaches tonight? I’d probably hold off on that

Cowabunga, dude? I guess it's all about priorities.

j/c...

Back in the day i was a surfer ... if i was still one I’d be out everyday ... as it is .. if i lived within 30 minutes of one I’d go body surfing everyday ...

Not sunbathing and hanging out in the crowds ... but u bet your sweet butt I’d be enjoying me some waves and that pretty much requires social distancing ...