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That's a great way to phrase it.

Any player can get traded, but if I'm Berry, you gotta realize you get ONE good shot at this thing. There is no way I'm giving up a chess piece like OBJ. There is too much talent there. Teams MUST game plan for him. Not to mention you have the politics of how it could affect Landry. You gotta keep both, at least this first year in the Berry regime.

From a source standpoint with Albright denying the rumor. I trust him over anyone else.

They'd better not trade OBJ, SO they probably will.

I think that'd be a poor trade on both sides... can't imagine that trade actually happens...

I hope that this trade does not happen. I cant see many players being happy about this especially Landry. All we need is for him to demand a trade if this happens.

You don't have to worry about this trade happening.

I believe the Browns had feelers out about OBJ. I would think that most players get bounced around like that - talking doesn't mean anything. I also think after Diggs was traded for a 1st round pick, you have to listen to offers because you never know how desperate a team might be. I mean did anyone ever imagine a Hopkins trade?

Just a quick note on the WR pick at #10. I am not supporting the idea or rejecting the it either. I'd like to think that the FO is exploring all the opportunities available to them and then make the right decision. I likewise want to keep an open mind about all options not just we have to have this or that. I do have a couple of concerns about our current setup at WR and I believe that some of those concerns were shared by the original author but I have some others.

Drafting a WR at #10 would be drafting a WR1. Just because the player comes to the team with 2-Pro Bowl receivers already in tow doesn't mean that player isn't planned to be the WR1. Saying we have 3 guys that can play that position is like saying we shouldn't draft Simmons because we already have 3 linebackers we can play. Using Jeudy as an example, on paper is a huge upgrade over the players we currently have for that third WR position. Landry is best used in the slot. Going with 2 WR sets with double tight ends will effect his play IMO because he won't be playing the slot. OBJ received a lot of double teams last year - in a two WR set you can bank on double coverage. Having a real threat at the other WR (not the slot), either reduces the double coverage on OBJ or demands the other WR gets separation and has balls thrown his way.

#10 pick - I don't know but it would appear that the FO is hell bent on putting a potent offense on the field. Trading for Williams certainly bolsters the line. Adding a future WR1 now that would still start might not be a bad choice and would lock in every offensive position for the next 2-4 years. Again, not supporting the move but keeping an open mind.

I agree that we are bent on putting a top O in the field. We have a offensive slanted coach at the helm, and, we are closer on that side of the ball, so it probably makes sense to finish the job.

Still, I like D, but that's just me. I have to admit I have said it is easier to build a solid D, so I go with the plan.

We have some smart people in charge. You don't get in to the schools they attended without ACT scores starting around 31-32.

It will be well thought out.

I know it was a different FO but if you look at the roadmap and the drawbacks of what happened it might make sense that the Browns go after a #1WR. Last year, the Browns let Perriman go (I personally thought it was a mistake) because their plan at the opposite WR was Callaway. The Browns put all their money on the one guy they thought would be a big enough threat that the defense would have to play honest defending OBJ, Landry and Perriman with Njoku at TE with Hunt and Chubb coming out of the backfield. Sounds pretty potent on paper.

Instead, we got an OBJ that played hurt most of the year. Landry played hurt part of the year. Njoku got hurt but even before that injury there were serious questions about him being that quality TE. I would think that thought was solidified with the signing of Hooper to a 42 million deal and with the Njoku option needing to be decided by May 3rd, I wouldn't be a least bit surprised if he isn't on the roster much longer. Njoku playing 4 games and only having 5 receptions for 41 yds is not what the Browns were expecting out of their TE. Callaway gave us a whopping 8 receptions for 89 yards. Hunt and Chubb did what they could with a weak dismantled receiving corp.

So what do the Browns have at the position they counted on Callaway being a fixture at:

Taylor who only played 3 games in 2019 with 0 receptions 0 yds
Hodge who played 16 games with 4 receptions and 76 yds
Ratley who played 13 games with 12 receptions and 200 yds
Natson (FA) who played 12 games for the Rams with 0 receptions and 0 yds.
Higgins (unsigned FA) who played 11 games with 4 receptions for 55 yds.

Four on the roster with a possible 5th (being promoted to be resigned on boards here) that all together accounted for a freaking grand total of 20 receptions for 331 yards in 2019. They accomplished this feat with a starting TE missing 12 games, the #1WR playing at 80% at best and double covered the majority of pass plays and the WR2 playing at 80-90% for part of the year and your WR3 being cut mid season after a suspension.

Drafting a future #1 WR at #10 makes a lot more sense when you look at the above numbers and options if you are indeed building a powerhouse offense. Drafting the WR is a lot cheaper than signing a FA considering what the Browns have invested in WR already. The other thought to consider is that if the Browns are indeed going to trade for Trent Williams and are still in the market for the DE position with Clowney, Ngakoue, or Griffin - then it makes even more sense to address the WR spot in the draft. The question then becomes do the Browns go after one of the top 3 or do they wait until the later rounds?

Again, are the Browns focused on building a powerhouse offense as it appears? What are their plans to free up OBJ or Landry from double teams? Are they completely healed from their injuries. Do you really think that the 4 players we have on the roster now or even adding back in Higgins is the answer considering past performance? How much will it hurt the Browns not addressing the WR3 position?

Hard to get a grasp on things or the direction the Browns might go but with the draft 8 days away, everything should be clearer by next Thursday night.

The Browns were going to keep Perrimen, but he asked to be released after the OBJ trade. The Browns did him a good deed.

You've said this dozens of times. I'm guessing that you want to make sure everyone shares your opinion?

They might be book smart, but they were in charge before and their draft decisions were not smart at all. They also went 1 and 31.

I'm not predicting they will suck again. But man, you keep saying that in thread after thread. Let it go...

He had agreed to terms, but had not signed, so he did them a courtesy by asking out, when they really had no way to keep him.

just like people keep saying 1-31 in thread after thread like it means anything at all. People just cannot get the concept into their heads that during those years while winning was 'A' Goal, it was not 'The' Goal. THE Goal was to deconstruct the roster in a manner that acquired draft capital and freed money so they could build back up. They achieved THE Goal quite successfully as Dorsey had fun walking into the absolute best GM situation, ever.

::sigh::


The OBJ trade rumors, especially at the compensations listed, are a joke. If anything, any discussions at all were purely exploratory and not real in any way. Actually, considering some of these "sources", I'd bet that it was some exceptionally bored individual sitting in his pajamas working from home trying to see what he could stir up.


There are zero valid scenarios where we take a WR with the #10 pick.
We are not trading OBJ for chump change.
There is a 95% likelihood that we are not trading OBJ, period.

All of this ridiculousness is simply the typical week-before-the-draft period where the truly wacky gets presented because everyone has beaten every other horse to death since January. Add in everyone on lockdown and it's just more ridiculous this year.

He has worn out his welcome with me. When he started running his own routes, dropping ball, and tipping balls for ints he lost me. His off the field antics are also a drag. He tells other teams to come get me. Go away OBJ. You suck.

Both Landry and OBJ were hurt all season, yet toughed it out and had 1000 receiving yards. Yet people still whine about it.

Almost like a media conspiracy theory to me. Belittling the Browns, berating them, convinced by the convenience of their own hindsight, they totally cheap shot the Browns. We are ignoring real 'here and now' stories for cliched cheap shots that talk about all kinds of negativity.

Win, babe! Force them to talk about something else. Unleash our Elf!

So why haven't the Browns officially denied this "rumor"?
Their silence is awfully loud.

Mike Lombardi: Broncos trying to trade up with Browns.

I'm sure that Denver is talking to all of the teams to find out what they would want in a given scenario. I'm sure that we're doing the same thing. It doesn't mean it has legs.

One week to go... nothing is to be believed until it happens and paperwork is filed in New York.

obj being hurt has nothing to do with him failing to learn the playbook. I stopped counting at 30 times that baker had to reposition him as they were setting up to run a play.

interestingly, nfl network has been running old games. I saw two from our 2018 season. receivers were Perryman, Calloway, Landry and Higgins. not once during those two games did baker have to reposition a receiver. I look forward to obj and Jarvis being out there but it is obj’s responsibility to know the playbook.

If there are any legs to this, I'm guessing it will be considered if the Browns main LT targets have already been taken. And there is a decent chance that could be the case.

so you have expressed your disdain for baker hundreds of times. I am guessing that you want to make sure everyone shares your opinion??

Agreed. It's our due diligence to work through these scenarios "just in case".... it doesn't remotely mean it is happening; unless we find ourselves in a boat where our targets are gone.

I think people need to decide if it was Freddie not calling plays that had been practiced that week or if it was OBJ. But I'm sure there will be disagreements on that. IMO, one only needs to look at the career of OBJ rather than take last season as some indictment.

It's much like Baker. One could point to last year and say he regressed. That he's not cut out to be a franchise QB. I look at both of his seasons and say we really don't know. I'm not going to discount Baker based only on last years performance.

If you're going to question Freddie on Baker's bad season, then you must fairly look at it from that same perspective in regards to other players.

Pretty much about sums it up.

We've seen much higher levels of competency from both; the one thing in common is they both happened to have the worst year of their career under Freddie and an offense that was, by all accounts, a complete mess.

I *really* wanted Freddie to work out. Because it was a good story and also because it meant we'd finally solved another piece of the puzzle.... but, it was not to be.

I think that simply putting them all into a competent offense that is competently coached and ran will do absolute wonders for both. I will stop shy of saying that this offense will live up to last year's expectations, but there is little to no reason we can't look every bit as good as Minnesota's did last year.


Now, we just need to look at how teams beat the Minny offense and learn from it, and adapt ourselves to counter those approaches.

So if that was the case .... and Baker is the QB and lining up OBJ in the right place on the plays that were not practiced : you premise would mean Baker learnt the entire playbook of plays practiced/designed for that week and every person's assignment .... AND he knew the plays that weren't practiced in the week AND he knew each person's assignment on those unpracticed plays....

I don't know how complex or varied "Freddy's" playbook was - but I don't like that a premier player at their position doesn't know their own, singular assignment whether it was on plays practiced or unpracticed. That was disappointing. Baker was bashed and the suggestion has been he was lazy/unprepared. And while his physical appearance and accuracy issues lend cred to that ... he clearly was well versed in the playbook. I don't think I would use Freddy as a reason to excuse OBJ.

To be honest I don't know what the issue was with OBJ last year - he had drops I wouldn't have expected and he had the assignment/playbook issues ... both uncharacteristic based on his past. . . . I believe he will bounce back and be on the same page as BM and trust that he is going to be an elite player in the NFL. Hoping/believe BM returns to Rookie form also.

j/c...

I think I share not only yours, but every Browns fans wishes that each and every HC and FO we've seen hired to date works out and brings us fans a winner. This current group is no different for me.

I have learned through experience not to just have unbridled optimism. I see this group no different than some others who have come and gone to one extent. A lack of experience at their current positions. But that really doesn't mean anything other than we have no evidence what they can or can't accomplish in their current roles.

We've seen inexperienced as well as experienced people come in here and fail as well. So I look at it as a blank slate. They will write their own fortunes moving forward.

My hope is we will more closely mirror last years Vikings rather than last years Browns. But at this stage I feel either one is possible.

I don't like that both under performed. But they did. It seems the execution from both was poor. You seem to be concentrating on the lining up part. I'm just a little more concerned about what happened after the ball was snapped. But that's just me.

and yet, he still went over 1,000 with 4 TD.

I see little reason - actually none - that he won't return to 1,300 yds & 10 TD.

Lots of people have been connecting Ezra Cleveland to, well, Cleveland.

Let's hope so....he hasn't done it since 2016. But several factors could be considered.

Both were issues ... not knowing where to line up is bad. It's as painful to watch as when Baker was missing open receivers or jumping out of clean pockets. But the route development and separation issues were really bad too - I can't remember who wrote it but there was an excellent read about half way through the season talking about how the Browns receivers were all so tightly grouped on the field while they ran their routes. Very little isolation.

I'm excited for a heavy dose of run and play action ... I think it's a favorable system for the talent we have.

I think that supports a trade down scenario, because I don't think we get a second chance at a viable starter at LT with our next pick at 41. IMO, Wirfs, Wills, Thomas, Becton, Jones, Jackson, and Cleveland are all gone by that point - maybe even all of them in the first round.

j/c...

Yup, and all understandable.
2017 - injured, I believe.
2018 - Eli and that offense
2019 - Freddie and that offense

2020 - no excuses

Luckily Baker didn't have to decide where to line up huh?

I think that has a lot to do with us being heavy in analytics. Analytics often suggests trading down. I however do not believe that will be the case if one of our top OT's, which I believe there are two of, along with Simmons or Derrick Brown are still on the board.

Mac was right.

Depo is making all the decisions.