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Originally Posted By: oobernoober
I should've mentioned this during my last post, but I have no idea what type of defense we're going to be running. I don't know how much the scheme requires of its LBs.


I don't know, either, so I'm just ASSuming that we'll be built a bit like San Fran; beastly DLine, rock star secondary. Other than Kwon Alexander, are their LBers really all that? I'd say probably not. It is for this reason that I still like the Clowney idea. If you think Armstead and Bosa were a great pair, just imagine Garrett & Clowney with Vernon rotating in.


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Fred Warner is a very, very good LB for SF.

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Is he that good, or is he that good in that environment?
I mean, he was a 3rd rounder just two years ago where he was projected to be a fourth rounder in a weak linebacker draft. One site I'm looking at had him rated as the 14th best LB that year.

So, how much is him, and how much is having that sort of DLine in front and that secondary behind him?


Edit: Just food for thought... and also a genuine question. How much is him and how much is the environment he gets to operate in?

Last edited by PrplPplEater; 04/27/20 06:19 PM.

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Good question.

I think he is very underrated, but I am sure having the surrounding players on that D helps.

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One thing of note to me is that in reading the one draft profile, he kinda sounded a bit like the kid we just took. Hard-hitter in the run game, etc...


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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
One thing of note to me is that in reading the one draft profile, he kinda sounded a bit like the kid we just took. Hard-hitter in the run game, etc...


I'm actually comparing the draft profiles of the two right now, and they are crazily similar.

Fred Warner: https://www.nfl.com/prospects/fred-warner?id=32195741-5248-5225-ce4a-b72862edcf69

Jacob Phillips: https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jacob-phillips?id=32195048-4925-4322-4ff5-33f36c969da0

Measureables in terms of both body size and Combine numbers are almost literally identical. So close it's crazy. Warner is a little quicker/agile while Phillips is more explosive. Same height, but Warner was a little heavier coming out, but Phillips has longer arms & larger hands.


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Well, I will be happy if he plays like Fred in the NFL.

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https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/fred-warner

They're both >82% Courtland Bullard comparisons, who happens to be a Will Witherspoon and Kevin Burnett clone.


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I don't have the answer to that, Purp, but I want to complement you on what I feel is a really telling question whose answer will be valuable. This isn't a quick gloss, I suspect, and the answer will have elements of both. FWIW, I want to stress that I do not see this pair excluding one another.


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I think this is validation that our Defense is not going to have a major interest in LBs. As was mentioned by a poster or two we will stack up our Defense with DL talent and put our depth not in LB but in those hybrid Safety LB around the league, We are carrying 5 safeties currently Delpit probably our best talent there. We have two LB who are in that hybrid status.

Takitaki I thought played a lot more at the end of the season, not sure if that playing time was earned or just that of necessity. But he did show improvement at the very end of the season I went from man, why did we pick this guy to saywhat
hey this kid has some game.

It not that we are without talent but we got so much youth at the position and we are counting on a lot of improvement as they enter their 2nd season. We are talking about 4 young LBs.

What value will Goodson provide???

I think the lack of investment into the position on a whole dictates to us FANS our lack of reliance of that position in our NEW Defense.

Its the only explanation that I can see!



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There are a few LBs on the likely cut/traded list from ESPN...not sure if anyone is worth more than a cheap gamble based on the reads.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29101985/32-nfl-players-most-likely-cut-traded-2020-nfl-draft

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They believe the following LB will be available:

- Denzel Perryman (LAC)
- Avery Williamson (NYJ)
- Haason Riddick (AZ)


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: clwb419
There are a few LBs on the likely cut/traded list from ESPN...not sure if anyone is worth more than a cheap gamble based on the reads.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29101985/32-nfl-players-most-likely-cut-traded-2020-nfl-draft


Hasaan Reddick is the only LB that catches my eye there, but even then, I'd rather just give the guys we have a fair shot and see if they can step up to the call. I believe Mack, Taki, and Phillips can hold their own.


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I hope they’re wrong about us getting rid of Mitchell.


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Originally Posted By: Pdawg
I hope they’re wrong about us getting rid of Mitchell.
same here .. i think he’s a good CB lol, especially if we’re talking a 4/5 guy


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: Pdawg
I hope they’re wrong about us getting rid of Mitchell.


Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. I ready that and my first thought was that they were obligated to pick someone from every team. Unless both Green and Houston (UDFAs) knock it out of the pack, I don't see us just dumping him - even then, his salary is reasonable and we have cap space.

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I see it as a reporter was given an assignment to list each team's most likely roster cut. He did what research he could in the time allotted and made his best guesses. Some teams are probably more accurate than others.


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Originally Posted By: Pdawg
I hope they’re wrong about us getting rid of Mitchell.


Same here, I think the reporter basically had a formula set up and that is Most money to somebody not starting which he has penciled in Greedy Williams - But its an important position and Mitchell is Good, not great but good. You don't get rid of your #2 or #3 CB - not in the NFL. And as mentioned we are sound in the Cap department so there is no desperation for us to cut some money, Mitchell just fit in their formula.

jmho


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Originally Posted By: eotab
Originally Posted By: Pdawg
I hope they’re wrong about us getting rid of Mitchell.


Same here, I think the reporter basically had a formula set up and that is Most money to somebody not starting which he has penciled in Greedy Williams - But its an important position and Mitchell is Good, not great but good. You don't get rid of your #2 or #3 CB - not in the NFL. And as mentioned we are sound in the Cap department so there is no desperation for us to cut some money, Mitchell just fit in their formula.

jmho


Considering the source ... I wouldn't give it a second thought.


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Your really rolling the dice when you March
Out 4 very young LBers without a proven playmaker out there amongst team.
Your betting they will all emerge and become
These sideline to sideline great in space LBers.
Last time I checked teams still attack the seams
And the 2nd level in many ways.
Once again no matter the regime the Browns
Still have a bottom 5 in the NFL LBing
Core
Who's gonna make the Hall of Shame this year and
Have his bust beside Chaun Thompson Wali Rainer
Scooby Wright Jason Trusnik?

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It's a concern.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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You can turn it round - this is a chance for one or two to grab a chance and make a name for themselves. There are plenty of examples of late round and undrafted players who make it and become good players - grab the opportunity dawgs. Success, at this level, is as much mental as it is physical.

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An analytical look at the Cleveland Browns linebacker group

Jarrett Griebeler

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2020/05/12/an-analytical-look-at-the-cleveland-browns-linebackers/

With the new Cleveland Browns front office relying on analytics, here's an analytical look at the Browns linebacker group.

A new NFL season is slowly approaching and the Cleveland Browns are poised to bring the city of Cleveland its first winning season since 2007. With last year’s disappointing performance behind them, the Browns made some improvements on both sides of the ball this offseason. The team looks as good on paper as any other team in the NFL. The only question is: “Will this new coaching staff and front office be able to bring success to this organization who is desperate for a winner?”

A new general manager in Andrew Berry hopes to bring an analytical approach to the game in the front office while new head coach Kevin Stefanski brings in new schemes on both sides of the ball. These two showed synergy during free agency and the draft process and if it continues, we should expect some success on the football field come game day.

Keeping in tradition with the new “nerdy” front office built on analytics, let’s take an analytical look at each of the Browns positions to take a more in-depth look to see how successful these players were last season and make predictions on success for this next season. Also, some suggestions on where there need to be improvements. This will range each position on the team with the exception of kickers and punters.

One position group of the Browns is particularly young and doesn’t have much experience with the exception of one newly added veteran is the linebacker group. Former Brown Joe Schobert left the team in free agency and has left a big hole to fill in the Browns defense. Let’s take a look at this young linebacker corps and see who will see the field and potentially make an impact or who needs more time to develop their craft.

Solomon Ajayi, Undrafted rookie: 6-foot-1, 235 pounds

Here’s a name not many people would recognize. Solomon Ajayi is an undrafted rookie out of Liberty University. He is actually the younger brother of running back Jay Ajayi. As an undrafted rookie, Ajayi will have to show he has the skills to make it in an NFL defense.

Ajayi had over two years of playing time at Liberty. In 2018, he accumulated 73 tackles, 40 of those being solo tackles. With two forced fumbles, two fumble recoveries, and two interceptions as well, Ajayi maintained his dominance on Liberty’s defense. In 2019, Ajayi led the Independent conference tackles, making 91 total tackles and 47 of them were solo. While he only had one forced fumble and no interceptions, he still proved he was able to bring down runners and fly around the ball.

Ajayi is far from a complete prospect. Crazy things have happened before but being an undrafted rookie means you have a long way to go to see the field of play. Stefanski and staff will be tasked with how to place him in this defense. He is very raw and isn’t in a position to see the field for a majority of snaps.

He showed the ability to stuff the holes in run plays but isn’t big enough to shake off most linemen and can get bullied. We’ll see what happens with him in camp and preseason. Maybe he’ll make a name for himself like last year's preseason story, Damon Sheehy-Guiseppi.

B.J. Goodson, Fifth year: 6-foot-1, 241 pounds

B.J. Goodson is another new face signed by the new regime. Goodson is a 2016 fourth round pick by the New York Giants and last year played for the Green Bay Packers. Believe it or not, Goodson will have the most amount of experience in the linebacker room come season start.

After not playing his rookie year, his next two seasons saw him play about 40 percent of defensive snaps. In 2018, Goodson played in 15 games, starting 13, and had 61 tackles in which 44 of them were solo. He added two interceptions to his stat line and played 47 percent of total defensive snaps for the Giants.

Goodson spent this past season with the Packers and saw significantly less playing time. He played about half the snaps he did from the previous year, bringing his snap count percentage to only 24 percent. Playing 15 games and starting in nine, Goodson had 37 tackles, 23 of which were solo. His missed tackle percentage is low, however, as over the past two seasons, he’s only missed 6.35 percent of tackle attempts.

Goodson not playing a lot of snaps for Green Bay last season may be a red flag, but you can’t deny his experience. Considering how truly young this unit is, they can use someone like him as a seasoned veteran.

Goodson certainly has the frame and build for a linebacker, but depending on how aggressive new defensive coordinator Joe Woods is with his 4-3 scheme, we’ll see if Goodson's used as a middle or as an outside backer. His stats shine when he plays middle, so hopefully that’s where he finds his footing and position come training camp.

Jacob Phillips, Rookie: 6-foot-3, 229 pounds

Jacob Phillips is one of the many players taken in this year’s draft and he just so happened to fall into the Browns lap. Taken in the third round, the expectation for him is to fill the hole that Schobert has left. If he plays as he did in college, that expectation may become a reality.

Phillips played for three years at LSU and started in 2018 and 2019. His numbers are outstanding, to say the least. In 2018, the LSU product had 87 total tackles in which 32 of them were solo. He even had a pick-six during the season as well.

His numbers improved in 2019, as he had 113 total tackles, 56 of which were solo. In both of those starting seasons, he led the SEC in assisted tackles. Phillips even lead the conference in total tackles in 2019 and was fifth with his solo tackles. Knowing how good the SEC means that those feats are true accomplishments.

Phillips is built like a physical NFL linebacker with a 4.60 40-time to back it up. He helped lead on one of the better defenses in college football last year and was able to continue to produce even when the schedule became more difficult. If one of his teammates needs help with a tackle or is holding the runner up, Phillips is sure going to be there to finish the job.

He does not miss tackles and has proven to be productive. As he heads into camp, he needs to work on his coverage skills, as that was a big knock on him. He will also need to adjust to the speed of the NFL. He’s going to have to be able to play smart, fast, and confident if he wants to beat run-heavy and physical teams like the Ravens and Steelers two times a year.

Sione Takitaki, Second year: 6-foot-1, 238 pounds

Sione Takitaki seems to be in a weird place with his NFL job. Being drafted in the third round, in what experts said was “a little high,” Takitaki was drafted by the old regime. Unfortunately for him, he doesn’t have much to show in his rookie campaign.

Takitaki played in 15 games this past year but only started in one. He mostly played special teams, however, as he played 57 percent of the special teams snaps and only about 100 defensive snaps. Of those snaps, he only made 21 tackles, including 14 solo tackles.

Other than that, there isn’t much to say besides him having a low missed tackle percentage of only 4.5 percent, but since he played so little of actual defense, it's hard to really get a read on if it’s actually that low. It’s hard to truly see how Takitaki will make an impact or mark on the team.

Takitaki is still raw and will have to improve his skills in order to see the field more. He often over pursues his target, but does fly all around the field. Training camp is approaching and offseason workout sessions are starting soon, so this new regime should be getting a good glance at him.

It's hard to know what this regime will think of him, however. Preseason will be the true determining factor if he sees the playing field more. If he plays well, there’s a chance he will. But if he struggles, he could be left in the dust.

Mack Wilson, Second year: 6--foot-1, 240 pounds

Mack Wilson was a hidden gem in last year's draft. The more comfortable he was with the scheme and playbook, the better he played throughout 2019. He is the only returning starter in the position group, but his skills are far from being fully developed.

Last season, Wilson played an outstanding 89 percent of the defensive snaps. Being a fifth round pick and nearly playing every snap says a lot about his ability. Wilson gathered 82 total tackles, 57 of those being solo. He also added a forced fumble and an interception to his rookie campaign as well.

One aspect that he desperately needs to improve upon is his pass coverage. He was targeted 69 times and gave up 49 completions for 471 yards, giving up two touchdowns as well. Wilson certainly has the experience from last year, but with a new defensive coordinator, he has a chance to assert himself as the top dawg.

Wilson played well overall in his rookie campaign. He really turned heads in the preseason, which led him into playing in the majority of the regular season. He did get killed in pass coverage last year, but he is a solid tackler and can analyze the offense well.

With the addition of another physical linebacker in Phillips, Wilson has the potential to improve and reach another level of play. In the AFC North, you have to play physical and if Wilson continues to do so, he can be difficult to stop in the next few years.


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lol that article is not comforting.


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It sounded like it was written by a dude on a message board rather than a professional journalist.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
It sounded like it was written by a dude on a message board rather than a professional journalist.


what do you expect? they write 10 articles a day vs 7 a week


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
It sounded like it was written by a dude on a message board rather than a professional journalist.



Exactly what it is, Why is that a problem?

Trust me, I know Professional Journalism... and LB's

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Why is it a problem ... u read this place and u don’t know what the problem with that is .. rofl ...




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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
It sounded like it was written by a dude on a message board rather than a professional journalist.


I almost ALWAYS ignore every single article that comes from a local Cleveland media source.

They are all HOT GARBAGE.


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To me, additional info - even if its only one man's opinion - is always appreciated. Posters are all free to read or ignore as they see fit. In this case, I don't necessarily share the author's high opinion of Mack Wilson. I was especially disappointed in his performance vs Cinci in the finale last year - Joe Mixon made him look like a freshman vs the varsity squad.

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Is there something in there that is blatantly incorrect? Or is this just another 'kill the messenger' thing? It may be light on details, but no where did I read that he was pretending to know the details - or even cover the details. More like a status report.

I thought the '89% of snaps' thing for Wilson was interesting...and Phillips maybe grew 2" since being drafted. rofl

Keep 'em coming...I don't mind reading these things and I pay less attention to who wrote them that what is said. It is - after all - the internet.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
It sounded like it was written by a dude on a message board rather than a professional journalist.


Oh, you mean a professional journalist like Mary Kay? smile

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Quote:

Exactly what it is, Why is that a problem?


It's not a problem. As in.........I have no problem w/you posting it. That wasn't my intention. I just thought that the evidence the guy provided didn't support analytical thinking.

I hope it is not a problem to voice my opinion on an article?

Quote:

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Originally Posted By: BWinCA
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
It sounded like it was written by a dude on a message board rather than a professional journalist.


Oh, you mean a professional journalist like Mary Kay? smile



It would be one thing if she actually wrote all of her articles...

She has other sub-par writers who write hot garbage and publish under her name so that she gets credit for breaking stories etc.


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
It sounded like it was written by a dude on a message board rather than a professional journalist.


Oh, you mean a professional journalist like Mary Kay? smile [/quote]


It would be one thing if she actually wrote all of her articles...

She has other sub-par writers who write hot garbage and publish under her name so that she gets credit for breaking stories etc. [/quote]

Are you serious? Do they do this?

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Originally Posted By: BWinCA
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
It sounded like it was written by a dude on a message board rather than a professional journalist.


Oh, you mean a professional journalist like Mary Kay? smile



It would be one thing if she actually wrote all of her articles...

She has other sub-par writers who write hot garbage and publish under her name so that she gets credit for breaking stories etc. [/quote]

Are you serious? Do they do this? [/quote]

yes, they really do this.


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Originally Posted By: BWinCA
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
It sounded like it was written by a dude on a message board rather than a professional journalist.


Oh, you mean a professional journalist like Mary Kay? smile



It would be one thing if she actually wrote all of her articles...

She has other sub-par writers who write hot garbage and publish under her name so that she gets credit for breaking stories etc. [/quote]

Quote:
Are you serious? Do they do this?



Yes, they really do this

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Originally Posted By: eotab
It not that we are without talent but we got so much youth at the position and we are counting on a lot of improvement as they enter their 2nd season.


Boy if that doesn't about sum up the Cleveland Browns for the last 17 years. Any postion.
rofl You'd a thought there'd be more than 3 drafted players that would not make the team, in all those years. (maybe there were, I can't think of them)

Ton of youth, inexperience, Brand new coaches, and a ton of cap space, tried and true formulas; year after year.

Joined: Apr 2013
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Joined: Apr 2013
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SUCK!

Nice job letting Joe and Kirksey walk.

Business as usual for this joke of a franchise.

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