DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Money time for Moneyball: Can analytics finally work for the Cleveland Browns?

FYI- If someone likes the selection or not, Njoku was a matter of trading up.

LOL...add yourself in to the crowd, but actually the word you were seeking is analysis, not diagnosis. But still, a good entertaining post. I like how you brought in uniform and fashion experts. That was good my friend. I hope we can figure out a way to share a brew sometime in the future.

Maybe when things clean up and we actually play games, I can drive up to Nashville and meet at a Browns Bar. When that time comes, I will look for a day when the Preds play at 7pm on a Sunday. A perfect day of sports. Watch the Browns, then the Preds, and finish up at Tootsies for some real country music.

I hooked my wife Pat on hockey about 20 years ago. I took her to a Lightening game in Tampa. Seats on the glass. She's been hooked ever since. A fight between Hatcher...a big goon for Dallas and whoever was right in front of us, banging the glass a foot in front of us...she said, " THOSE GUYS ARE REALLY FIGHTING" I said that's the game. Emotions run high when somebody puts a stick in your face. LOL....I remember it like yesterday.

I always like to say that I went to see a fight and a hockey game broke out.

The last time I drank was when GM met me here for a game some years ago. I had a couple of beers then. It's not like I swore off drinking or anything. I just kind of lost my taste for it. But I'd be more than happy to have a few brews with you and catch up on old times.

...who are you and what have you done with mac?

You just can't let go of your disdain for Depo, can you mac? Depo surely deserves at least some credit for the pick...

or, more likely, you misunderstood what "Moneyball" is all along and they're still just sticking to the plan.

You've created this entire idea in your mind around what "Moneyball" is and it isn't anything like what you think.

We're still doing it..... it's simply using more information and sticking to a plan (and actually HAVING a plan).



Long Live Moneyball!!

I'd rather not give him any credit for the pick, and instead give him credit for supporting the guys making the picks however he can (aka his actual job description).

While Depo didn't make the pick, he should be given credit for identifying value through analytics. I am probably being 'clumsy' trying to convey my thoughts here...

No, you are not being clumsy. I get it. If the pick is bad, Depo does not deserve blame because he had no say in it. If it's good, he deserves credit.

LOL..........just messing w/you. Kinda-sorta.

I don't know if he deserves credit as much as it helps us to validate the processes. It's less about credit than knowing that the processes and ways of doing things we're implementing are on the right track.

Oh dear, it seems that I am not expressing my opinion in the way that I mean. Perhaps 'credit' is a poor choice of words, rather that Depo should be recognized as having 'input' into the selection process through usage of analytics...

I think they blew it! I mean they didn't trade down, right? They weren't drafting a QB so more picks are always better. What a mess!

Maybe DePo doesn't have as much influence as one once thought?

Maybe Depo agreed with the pick because we are building a team on an already strong foundation rather than tearing the team apart. Let's not pretend Depo didn't get the HC of his choice.

I thought we were having fun with purple

Or maybe it was Berry who agreed with DePo to nab Wills...

In any event, I feel like they could do several episodes of the Twilight Zone just based on the last 4-5 years in Berea. And I don't mean a simple twist at the end, I'm talkin that deep, philosophical thought provoking reveal they used to have in the black and white days when you had to contemplate the sanity of mankind.

Still lots of draft left, and even longer to figure out if these were good picks or not... but I'll put this here anyways.

I had BIG concerns about what was essentially seen as a second go at the Sashi Brown regime. Those concerns were mostly born out of my opinion that that group was good at flipping draft picks/players for great value and leveraging an already poor roster (talent-wise) for maximum "rebuild ammo"... but wasn't any good at much else. I was concerned they would pick up right where the left off in terms of dumping good (if expensive) talent.

I'm not saying they're good (or bad), but I think we've seen enough to know that this FO isn't simply that FO again. They were aggressive and spent in FA, they apparently saw who they wanted in the draft and got him instead of trading out for more, lesser-impact picks.

Maybe it was silly to even suggest we were restarting The Plan, but regardless, I'm happy the FO is proving that wrong.

There is still a couple days left in this draft.. I will comment that the appearance thus far is that of a team on the same page. Of course none of us is there to confirm or deny.

I agree that on the surface, which is all we have privy to, everyone appears on the same page. BTW- Thanks for the articles you sent me this morning.

Indeed.. this may be the biggest thing thats occurred even above the good pick they made.. being on the same damn page. What a novelty after all these years since 99

One note of caution however. In every case from the past, the message we were told is that everyone was on the same page. Only when things got tough did we find out how incorrect that actually was. That's when the fractures rose to the surface.

Hopefully this time will prove out to be different.

Also true.

Like these picks so far. Geez, I hope we have enough guys left to cut. Did Dobbins go yet? I was surprised he was still around. But so is Mel the K.

Four picks down, and nary a head-scratcher to be found. Good. Very good.

Like this post^

I like this line of thinking, can I apply it to a thought, (one I refuse to believe), that Hue Jackson never had any say in who was on the Browns teams' he coached.

Nevermind, it's water too under the bridge.

I really just was wondering how this draft is going to compare to the one which Brought Kizer,
side by side, didn't they stay put on pick #1 if my memory recalls correctly.

No doubt. As we have seen in the past, the coach is the one to panic first. Butch Davis, who had as much influence as any coach in our rebirth panicked.

We had another who panicked, can't think of his name right now. OK, I can, I brought up Butch not to rub salt.

Butch is a classic example.

I just think it's a natural thing among any group of people. I don't think it pertains to any particular group.

When things are going smoothly, everyone in a group sees themselves working together as being something easy to do. Success breeds harmony. When that same group of people sees what they feel as the wheels coming off, each person in said group looks for answers to right the ship. (Yes, I'm aware ships do not have wheels.)

It's just a survival mechanism we see all the time.

A lack of success sows division.

I've been told boats can fly... lol

They are all 'on the same page'...until they are not.

Sort of like 'don't worry, my dog won't bite'...until it does.

I have to say, I think Berry, Stefanski, and Depo had a very good draft.

Berry and Stefanski getting scheme fit players, Depo reminding them a trade down at this point can be a big advantage. Gain a 3rd rounder to drop 4 slots, and there are 5 players we have ranked the same that all fit what we want to do.

Take the 3rd rounder and take who is left.

Seems like a no brainer to me, except it does take brains.

We have solid football people and people with brains. A good combination.



Also, maybe just a beef of sorts, our guys look sharp. That is important to me.


Freddie and John looked like a couple of Hobo's. They made enough money they could afford to spend $5000 on 4-5 outfits that were tailored to fit and not look some cheap, off the rack Sears sports coat, and maybe get a haircut that cost more than $10..

Even if casual is your thing....Depo goes casual, but he still has a nice pressed shirt or Polo, and some nice slacks with a nice belt and deck shoes or slip one's, He's not lugging around in a $15 sweatshirt and cargo shorts. I can't go to my golf club looking like that.

Dress for success has meaning. It still means something. Think about it, when you dress up, you feel a little special. You think sharper, people look at you differently. People listen a bit more intently. It's true.


Andrew Berry. He get's it. GQ sharp. The guy takes pride. He probably spends $60 a week for someone to shape his beard.


Good for him. That's what I want my guy to look like. Damn Right.




Oh, as a edit, this is just my opinion. If you like the hobo look for whatever reason, cool. I am not pointing fingers.. I am just saying I want my executives looking the part.

I know some people really value image over substance.




Meaningless vanity is a strange tangent to go on about. I guess maybe office people should dress better than football people. I mean since you feel a need to take cheap shots I'm happy to throw them back at you.



I'm sure a lot of common folk hang out there. Relating to common fans instead of snooty people isn't a bad thing. Except in your ivory tower.



Dress for success is something they tell people "trying to become successful". If someone feels a need to "dress up" to feel special or get people to listen to them, they have serious issues that clothes can't fix.




Then maybe you should "hire you some people."






That's a lie. You are most certainly pointing fingers. And in case you missed it"you" don't have any executives. That snooty attitude of yours is disgusting.

Do u think no matter who they drafted Mr. Peen wouldn’t have given them major kudos? ... ..

I guess Ballpeen wouldn’t hire Bill Belichick.

I didn't think it was all that snooty. Appearance does matter when you're in a position of authority.

As Jules said, it would be terrible to have Beilchick here and we certainly wouldn't want Andy Reid in his Hawaiian shirt. I mean they aren't "GQ worthy" of their jobs.

And yeah, it was pretty snooty. I care about results.

The thing is I do agree with him about their draft. At least on paper. We won't know until we see them on the field.

But anyone worth eyes can see it was a diss towards the former regime. As smart as Peen is, he could have done a much better job of disguising it.

I'm not sure. What I can tell is he would have used the way they dressed as a dig at the former FO and coaching staff.

Everyone knows you can’t be successful in the NFL if you don’t dress nice.

Ya, ya, ya I heard that for years as I wore my Browns gear every day to work, including a ball cap, while others thought they had to wear a suit and tie.

I made more money for the dealership, and had a higher customer satisfaction rating than all the others wearing their suits and ties.