DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus ‘trump the virus” Covid 19-Continued

. as if trump can tell the difference between his wife and daughter.

I'm guessing she's a Trump supporter... Just a guess

Perhaps she can come to an agreement with local authorities. If she agrees to only hang around with her ilk, she can go out and socialize as much as she wants.

Just saying, compromise can be good.

The biggest concerns from COVID 19 is how the hospitals are killing their patients with use of ventilators and refuse to adapt or change their treatment methods



So why are we ventilating these people then!? Do folks realize how many people these hospitals have killed because they refuse to change their treatment methods despite the high level of fatalities with ventilators?

Could it possibly be because hospitals are paid MORE MONEY when they use Ventilators?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fact...rus/3000638001/

Where is the patient advocate in all of this?



However, lets please continue blaming Trump because its his fault these idiot Dr are killing many people who would otherwise survive with improperly calibrated ventilators, venting people they should not be venting, and refusing to change the treatment when its obvious putting people on ventilators is killing them.

When you put into account the Democratic political sway that has control over the NY Health system this is not one bit surprising.

This is an outrage,the medical community has mismanaged treatment of this whole thing from the get yet Trump is the one blamed for it. I will say over half the people who have died of COVID 19 would still be alive if these doofus morons were not using improperly set up ventilators, and would have stopped using them once it was clear that people were pretty much sentenced to death when put on one.

You HAVE to change the treatment when its obvious the current treatment isn't working. these Dr and these nurses have FAILED these people and their families in their job. These nurses should have started speaking up when it was obvious survival rate was so low once someone was vented, and they should have spoke up when they wanted to vent people who were obviously still lucid and awake.

This is an outrage...hospitals implemented this policy on ventilators on purpose to get money and they don't give a damn who they kill, yet Trump is somehow to blame for this? how idiotic!?

Ummm, maybe you should read the first article you posted? They're saying people aren't gasping for breath, but still need medical intervention because their lungs still aren't working properly. It goes further into the damage you can do when your blood saturation drops below 90%. 80% is very bad.

As for the second article... not sure what to make of a piece of equipment that has been established as safe all of a sudden being indicted as harmful in order to fit someone's conspiracy theory.... oh wait. I do know what to make of it.

Really? Then why did ER DR Kyle-Siddell step from working in the intensive care unit at Maimonides Medical Center in Brooklyn because he didn't want to follow the hospital's ventilator protocol?

He said and i quote:

'I could not morally, in a patient-doctor relationship, continue the current protocols which, again, are the protocols of the top hospitals in the country.

'I could not continue those,' he said. 'You can't have one doctor just doing their own protocol.'

He refused to go along with using them because it is wrong to do so, it was killing patients by damaging their lungs, and he actually has a conscience and refuses to do something he knows is not in the best interest of the patient. this guy is an actual hero. It takes guts to speak up about things like this.

You can put people on oxygen, and there are other methods that can be used to help peoples blood saturation levels before you resort to venting them.

Simply put, they don't have enough negative pressure rooms to implement a proper BiPap treatment, and they are so scared of the virus spreading, they are NOT giving best chance medical care to these people and are instead putting them on ventilators. They are more worried about virus spreading than life saving, and in doing so people are dying.

They are not even trying to do CPR and standard resuscitation methods on those who don't have a living will forbidding it.

88% of people who get vented die, if you end up sick your probably better off refusing the vent and taking your chances going purely by statistics.

Look, im not going to call any medical worker or Dr a coward, they are brave people, doing brave things. However, hospital administrations have to change treatments and be more nimble when its obvious things are not working. I get it you don't have enough negative pressure rooms to give BiPap treatments, but you gotta bite the bullet and administer the treatment, patients deserve best chance care, even if that puts hospital workers at greater risk, remember the Hippocratic Oath...Dr have a duty....

Because he's wrong?

j/c:

Cedars-Sinai to use UV light to treat coronavirus

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-04-28-cedars-sinai-to-use-uv-light-to-treat-coronavirus.html

---------------------

Aytu BioScience Signs Exclusive Global License with Cedars-Sinai for Potential Coronavirus Treatment

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/aytu-bioscience-signs-exclusive-global-120000824.html

Politifact... False.

Lets not let facts get in the way of agendas!

Seems like UV light therapy might be helpful. Could be a potential treatment in the future, once they have a chance to fully evaluate it.

I just want to say something really quick about the "ventilators are death machines" thing. If you're put on a ventilator, you're already struggling, health-wise. That many people who are put on ventilators end up dying is not a ventilator issue... it's a "why they were put on a ventilator in the first place" issue.

If people needed a life-saving emergency surgery or else they die, and ended up dying anyway... would you blame the surgeon? Most likely not. They weren't on the operating table because they were healthy.

In other news about stupid crap Trump supporters believe, say, and do: Two men were hospitalized for drinking household disinfectants today.

Its ok trump takes no responsibility for that. They were probably democrats trying to make trump look bad.

All I have to say is that there is a real difference between some doctor on the internet promoting some new type of natural therapy, and the director of the CDC weighing in on the validity of a medically proven approach.

No no no ! I bet that there are dozens and dozens, maybe hundreds, certainly HUGE numbers of articles on this subject .... I am sure it is mere coincidence that to support Trump 40 needed to quote an article from 2016.

I mean is there anything more ridiculous? And lets face it - instead of deflecting to the UTTERLY stupid part of his comments, we should really not lose sight of what he said about injecting bleach !!! And folks are still going to vote for him (and defend him by digging up obscure articles from 2016) !

He said he takes no responsibility for that! What dont you understand!?

He's not a doctor. He doesn't, and can't prescribe anything.

Not that the wingnuts will care but here's the FACTS...

-During a coronavirus press briefing, President Trump floated the idea of using disinfectants and sunlight to treat COVID-19 patients.

-Trump has since walked back those remarks, and several websites and social media posts have taken them out of context.

-The briefing transcript shows that Trump did not say people should inject themselves with bleach or alcohol to treat the coronavirus. He was asking officials on the White House coronavirus task force whether they could be used in potential cures.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/24/context-what-donald-trump-said-about-disinfectant-/

Trump orders meat processing plants to stay open

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump signed an executive order under the Defense Production Act to compel meat processing plants to remain open amid the coronavirus pandemic.

Trump had highlighted the order during an Oval Office meeting with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis that was opened up to reporters.

"We're going to sign an executive order today, I believe, and that'll solve any liability problems," Trump said on Tuesday.

The President signed the order after some companies, such as Tyson Foods, were considering only keeping 20% of their facilities open. The vast majority of processing plants could have shut down -- which would have reduced processing capacity in the country by as much as 80%, an official familiar with the order told CNN.

By signing the order, Trump declared these plants part of critical infrastructure in the US.

The administration is also working with the Department of Labor on issuing guidance about which employees who work at these meat processing facilities should remain home, including workers who are part of populations most vulnerable to the coronavirus.

When Trump announced the executive order, he also told reporters that his administration was working with Tyson Foods.

Tyson Foods spokesman Gary Mickelson wouldn't comment on the order because the company had not seen it, but said: "We can tell you our top priority remains the safety (of) our team members and plant communities while we work to continue fulfilling our role of feeding families across the country."

With many Americans staying home during the coronavirus, industry experts say demand for meat has increased. But some of the country's largest processing plants have been forced to cease operations temporarily after thousands of employees across the country have tested positive for the virus.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/politics/...pply/index.html

Hmmm. Lot's of workers dying but farmers need to send hogs to market and people need cheap pork to eat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHkzqejFKbM

LOL .... and you think Biden is senile.

We all saw it, everyone saw it. Nothing was taken out of context. He is a moron. There is no denying that. He also said it was sarcasm directed at a reporter that wasnt even there. Because well he is a lying moron.

Moscow Mitch wants to shield companies from any liability, doesn’t want infrastructure in next stimulus.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/house-delay...lus-11588091849

Team Trump mulling pandemic 'liability shield' if reopened businesses get workers, customers killed

One of the problems with Donald Trump's push to end pandemic-related social distancing measures while the actual pandemic is still growing is that it is self-evidently stupid and dangerous. It will result in dead Americans. Americans will walk into reopened stores and restaurants, be exposed to the virus via other customers or store staff, carry it home, and people will die.

Both the White House and the big business groups getting absolutely decimated by stay-at-home measures believe they have a solution for this, however. They think: What if we simply declared that those businesses are immune from liability when their customers or employees die of the virus? Americans would still die in droves, of course, but that would solve the more urgent problem of the businesses themselves being on the hook for following through with Dear Leader's dangerous stupidity. Problem solved?

The Washington Post reports that the problem is not quite solved, because "some administration officials" believe that the idea of immunizing businesses from giving people a deadly disease that everyone agrees they would certainly be spreading would instead transfer those legal liabilities to the federal government itself. Oh, and pushing for it might result in a "political firestorm."

(Oh, and it would obviously increase the U.S. death count, but nobody involved seems to give a flying damn about that part. Late-stage capitalism has more urgent things to worry about.)

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, however, is backing the idea. Its inherent stupidity and reckless disregard for human life would seem to all but assure that anonymous administration critics will be bricked up behind a White House basement wall so that Republicans and Team Trump can get on with implementing it.

There is an obvious flaw with a plan to unilaterally immunize all businesses nationwide from liability if workers or customers die as a result of conditions in their buildings. It removes most, if not all, incentives for those businesses to take precautions to prevent their workers and customers from spreading the disease. Businesses nationwide are installing transparent panels between cashiers and customers to limit airborne transmission. Businesses are at least trying to procure masks for their workers. Many businesses, though not all, are allowing workers to bring in homemade or other masks if they can scrounge them up.

How many of those safety measures will remain in place if the same businesses are told that they are now immune from liability even if they force workers to work with none of those safety allowances? How many "enhanced" daily cleaning routines will remain in place to protect customers if the new edict from on high is that if customers start dying off that is Not Our Problem?

Businesses run by decent folks will no doubt continue to take precautions, but the plain lesson of (gestures at the last two centuries of human history) is that the larger a for-profit venture is, the more willing it is to be gaudily indecent for the sake of an additional three bucks and change. Tell now-shuttered meatpacking plants, for example, that they no longer have any liability for mass infections and deaths in their facilities and they will order their workers back to the lines tomorrow, firing all who do not quickly comply.

This would fit Donald Trump's own needs quite nicely, of course; he is looking to pressure states into reopening so that the pandemic-collapsed economy does not get pinned on him, personally, in the run-up to the November elections. It would be a windfall of massive proportions to retail giants, fast food giants, and every other business reliant on low-wage labor and high customer traffic, relieving them of liability no matter how poor pandemic working conditions in their outlets might be.

It would all work out nicely, until a second wave of deaths—likely topping the current wave—made the costs of the plan clear to the public and led to new furious demands that Dear Leader's bungling acolytes Get Their Damn [censored] Together rather than simply writing off the new deaths as the necessary cost of capitalism. That the entirety of Team Trump combined, minus a few anonymous complainers, cannot seem to grasp that a new wave of mass deaths would certainly be worse for the economy than the status quo continues to be ... alarming.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/...ustomers-killed

trump only cares about trump..those who support him only care about themselves. Pfft the trump era.

The above is accurate. And totally inappropriate behavior by any public official including President Braggadocios. As any third grader should know, consumption of a disinfectant is likely to kill you.

The problem when you are the President is that the obvious response to a "brainstorming stream of conscience" moment.. Hey [censored] if people do that they are going to kill themselves, is not going to be said as a matter of decorum.

It was one of those "the Emperor has no clothes moments".

The fact that the White House had to go back and correct the official transcript to make sure that Debora Brix response of "not as a treatment" was just as significant.

It is pure comedy and stuff that you cannot make up.

So it begins:



this now opens up the flood gates for all these business in Illinois to file suit.(More states to follow) We all knew this was coming, and its coming in every state. The Supreme Court has ruled numerous times that the Constitution itself was written during a time of "great emergency" Shay's Rebellion ring a bell? they have also said the government can not suspend peoples essential liberties(The Bill of Rights) even during times of National emergencies or wars the government can not create new powers nor exercise powers it doesn't normally have.

Im telling you a record number of lawsuits are being prepped as we speak, they have been for a longtime. these lockdowns certainly violate the 5th amendment. If you own a business and the government forces you to close, they have to provide you "just compensation" They can't deprive you of the use of private property without just compensation, this has been paramount in Court Common Law dating back to founding days of the nation.

government is going to be paying a lot of people a lot of tax payer money over this nonsense, but whats the courts to do, these state governors were clearly in the wrong, this isn't communist China.

they should have set "guidelines" and "suggestions" but the day they sent cops to force people to close was the day I knew it would have to go to the courts, their has to be a legal remedy for literally putting people out of work, has to be.

Lets be frank, these state governors "technically" didn't even have the authority to really issue a lockdown, at least not when it comes to "economic activity" Since literally EVERY business in a state receives products and shipments from other states and other countries, state governors have no authority.

Article 1 Section 8 US Constitution

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

So as we see, the power to institute a national lockdown nor a lockdown really resides in the US Congress.

Article 1 Section 8 US Constitution

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

So since the majority of these businesses in these states(even restaurants) do "business" and purchase products across state lines the governors of these states had no such legal authority under our Constitution to shut these businesses down.

the stay at home order really only legally applied to individuals, to be more narrow, individuals who either work solely in the state, or are unemployed.

It can be argued that even the restaurant worker is engaging in interstate commerce as he/she is helping sell products to people who reside out of state, travel, enter the state temporarily, and moving such products bought from another state.

Im telling you, the Supreme Court right now is "licking its chops" this is the perfect time for them to even further consolidate Federal authority, and to clip the wings of these governors by exercising the Commerce Clause of the US Constitution.

You can't allow State governors to have such control over the flow of the national economy in this country, that's a recipe for disaster. The power to lockdown needs to be reaffirmed and vested into Congress where it belongs as the Constitution is quite clear that issuing lockdowns falls under Congressional Authority since it directly impacts the economy and interstate commerce.

And they will climb up the courts until these orders are all over with and nothing will happen.

Those crying "Death to America!" have become our own people.

They have them, they’ve been laid out from the WH..but now because trump’s failures a bunch of dumb arse governors don’t even want to follow those guidelines.

That's a very high bar you set there --- and I agree, the president technically squeaked above it...

but use the word "disinfectant" and the same may not be true.

Newsweek


DR. FAUCI BACKED CONTROVERSIAL WUHAN LAB WITH MILLIONS OF U.S. DOLLARS FOR RISKY CORONAVIRUS RESEARCH

Dr. Anthony Fauci is an adviser to President Donald Trump and something of an American folk hero for his steady, calm leadership during the pandemic crisis. At least one poll shows that Americans trust Fauci more than Trump on the coronavirus pandemic—and few scientists are portrayed on TV by Brad Pitt.

But just last year, the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the organization led by Dr. Fauci, funded scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and other institutions for work on gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses.

In 2019, with the backing of NIAID, the National Institutes of Health committed $3.7 million over six years for research that included some gain-of-function work. The program followed another $3.7 million, 5-year project for collecting and studying bat coronaviruses, which ended in 2019, bringing the total to $7.4 million.

Many scientists have criticized gain of function research, which involves manipulating viruses in the lab to explore their potential for infecting humans, because it creates a risk of starting a pandemic from accidental release.

SARS-CoV-2 , the virus now causing a global pandemic, is believed to have originated in bats. U.S. intelligence, after originally asserting that the coronavirus had occurred naturally, conceded last month that the pandemic may have originated in a leak from the Wuhan lab. (At this point most scientists say it's possible—but not likely—that the pandemic virus was engineered or manipulated.)

Dr. Fauci did not respond to Newsweek's requests for comment. NIH responded with a statement that said in part: "Most emerging human viruses come from wildlife, and these represent a significant threat to public health and biosecurity in the US and globally, as demonstrated by the SARS epidemic of 2002-03, and the current COVID-19 pandemic.... scientific research indicates that there is no evidence that suggests the virus was created in a laboratory."


The NIH research consisted of two parts. The first part began in 2014 and involved surveillance of bat coronaviruses, and had a budget of $3.7 million. The program funded Shi Zheng-Li, a virologist at the Wuhan lab, and other researchers to investigate and catalogue bat coronaviruses in the wild. This part of the project was completed in 2019.

A second phase of the project, beginning that year, included additional surveillance work but also gain-of-function research for the purpose of understanding how bat coronaviruses could mutate to attack humans. The project was run by EcoHealth Alliance, a non-profit research group, under the direction of President Peter Daszak, an expert on disease ecology. NIH canceled the project just this past Friday, April 24th, Politico reported. Daszak did not immediately respond to Newsweek requests for comment.

The project proposal states: "We will use S protein sequence data, infectious clone technology, in vitro and in vivo infection experiments and analysis of receptor binding to test the hypothesis that % divergence thresholds in S protein sequences predict spillover potential."

In layman's terms, "spillover potential" refers to the ability of a virus to jump from animals to humans, which requires that the virus be able to attach to receptors in the cells of humans. SARS-CoV-2, for instance, is adept at binding to the ACE2 receptor in human lungs and other organs.

According to Richard Ebright, an infectious disease expert at Rutgers University, the project description refers to experiments that would enhance the ability of bat coronavirus to infect human cells and laboratory animals using techniques of genetic engineering. In the wake of the pandemic, that is a noteworthy detail.

Ebright, along with many other scientists, has been a vocal opponent of gain-of-function research because of the risk it presents of creating a pandemic through accidental release from a lab.

Dr. Fauci is renowned for his work on the HIV/AIDS crisis in the 1990s. Born in Brooklyn, he graduated first in his class from Cornell University Medical College in 1966. As head of NIAID since 1984, he has served as an adviser to every U.S. president since Ronald Reagan.

A decade ago, during a controversy over gain-of-function research on bird-flu viruses, Dr. Fauci played an important role in promoting the work. He argued that the research was worth the risk it entailed because it enables scientists to make preparations, such as investigating possible anti-viral medications, that could be useful if and when a pandemic occurred.

The work in question was a type of gain-of-function research that involved taking wild viruses and passing them through live animals until they mutate into a form that could pose a pandemic threat. Scientists used it to take a virus that was poorly transmitted among humans and make it into one that was highly transmissible—a hallmark of a pandemic virus. This work was done by infecting a series of ferrets, allowing the virus to mutate until a ferret that hadn't been deliberately infected contracted the disease.

The work entailed risks that worried even seasoned researchers. More than 200 scientists called for the work to be halted. The problem, they said, is that it increased the likelihood that a pandemic would occur through a laboratory accident.


Dr. Fauci defended the work. "[D]etermining the molecular Achilles' heel of these viruses can allow scientists to identify novel antiviral drug targets that could be used to prevent infection in those at risk or to better treat those who become infected," wrote Fauci and two co-authors in the Washington Post on December 30, 2011. "Decades of experience tells us that disseminating information gained through biomedical research to legitimate scientists and health officials provides a critical foundation for generating appropriate countermeasures and, ultimately, protecting the public health."

Nevertheless, in 2014, under pressure from the Obama administration, the National of Institutes of Health instituted a moratorium on the work, suspending 21 studies.

Three years later, though—in December 2017—the NIH ended the moratorium and the second phase of the NIAID project, which included the gain-of-function research, began. The NIH established a framework for determining how the research would go forward: scientists have to get approval from a panel of experts, who would decide whether the risks were justified.

The reviews were indeed conducted—but in secret, for which the NIH has drawn criticism. In early 2019, after a reporter for Science magazine discovered that the NIH had approved two influenza research projects that used gain of function methods, scientists who oppose this kind of research excoriated the NIH in an editorial in the Washington Post.

"We have serious doubts about whether these experiments should be conducted at all," wrote Tom Inglesby of Johns Hopkins University and Marc Lipsitch of Harvard. "[W]ith deliberations kept behind closed doors, none of us will have the opportunity to understand how the government arrived at these decisions or to judge the rigor and integrity of that process."











::paging Dr. Mengele::

Un-frickin-believable!

Great article.

I posted this a few days ago:

Dr. Fauci Warned In 2017 Of ‘Surprise Outbreak’ During Trump Administration

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fauci-warned-of-trump-pandemic-2017_n_5e8a0548c5b6e7d76c65c8a4