|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944 |
I don't think that means what you think it means. How many people are using muskets now?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
So as technology changes our constitutional principles become less valid?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
Yeah, nothing has changed since 1781 when it was approved. And just what has changed so much to invalidate the electoral college? It still serves the same purpose it was originally intended. It makes sure that lesser populated states have a say in the presidential election.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
DELETED....wrong forum
Last edited by FloridaFan; 05/21/20 03:33 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,987
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,987 |
So one sid did accept it even though it took some persuading and the other side took refusing to accept it as a preemptive strike to anger and work up their supporters and sow the seed of contempt. that would be correct. Hey, don't blame me because Donald Trump had the courage to say out loud what Hillary was also thinking. And this isn't the first time Democrats lost the presidency because every Americans vote isn't counted the same.
The electoral college works, get over it. I am honestly curious as how you think the electoral college works? I'm not saying we should even get rid of it, but when we are taught our entire lives that "every vote counts" and then you learn that essentially certain votes count "more" than others, then it's not really even anymore. How we use something that isn't simply popular vote is beyond me, regardless of which party would win. I can see clearly the Constitution and history of this country is no longer taught in school. To make this quick, the US is supposed to be a union of 50 separate countries, with an overseeing federal government. The federal government was originally supposed to settle disputes between states, and set an overall policy for the states to act as a whole. In this light, the House was to be directly elected by the people, and be direct representatives of those people. The Senate was to be appointed by state representatives that were elected directly by the citizens of each particular state. That was changed to a direct election by the 17th amendment. The House was to represent the people, and the Senate was to represent the states. The president is to be elected by electors of each state, with the number of those electors determined by the state's population. The electors are to vote for a president based on the votes of the citizens of each state. This was to prevent large population centers from completely controlling the presidency. The electoral college was to assure each state's populace had a say in the presidency, and maintain a ballance between the cities and rural areas. A popular vote now would have the populations of NY, CA, and IL electing the president, with no other state's populace having much say. I understand the premise of it, but what I don't understand is that because it gives smaller states a higher electoral vote per capita, it essentially makes the larger populace states have their citizens' votes count "less". Compare California and West Virginia. CA has 55 electoral college votes and a population of 39,937,489, so essentially 726,136 per vote. West Virginia has 5 electoral college votes and a population of 1,778,070, so 355,614 per vote. Obviously people would rather win California, but the "power" of the voters is diminished comparatively speaking. If it's pure popular vote, every vote counts the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
But:
According to Article II, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Constitution, each state legislature determines the manner by which its state's electors are chosen. Each state's number of electors is equal to the combined total of the state's membership in the Senate and House of Representatives; currently there are 100 senators and 435 representatives.[1][2][3] Additionally, the Twenty-third Amendment, ratified in 1961, provides that the District of Columbia (D.C.) is entitled to the number of electors it would have if it were a state, but no more than the least populated state (presently 3).[4] U.S. territories are not entitled to any electors as they are not states.[5][6]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,052
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,052 |
To me, the issue more so is that if you are a republican in California or NY, or a Democrat in Oklahoma of Louisiana then essentially your vote doesn't count
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
If it's pure popular vote, every vote counts the same. Do you think it's safe to say that, generally, urban voters and rural voters frequently have different voting priorities? And different approaches to how best to achieve their priorities? To the point that they don't even know what each other's real priorities are? The things which may work well in the cities don't work as well in the country and vice versa? Because if we went with pure popular vote, there would be zero need to address the people who live in the country. Not near zero, absolutely zero. The 3 most populated metropolitan areas, NY/NJ, LA, and Chicago.. have more popular votes than the combined popular votes of: Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Utah, Iowa, Arkansas, Mississippi, Kansas, Nebraska, West Virginia, Idaho, Montana, South Dakota, North Dakota, Alaska, and Wyoming... So why on earth would ANY presidential candidate EVER feel the need to champion a cause that might be good for rural voters but not good for urban voters? There would be ZERO REASON TO DO THAT.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,797
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,797 |
This isn't some big breaking news. It's democratic primaries and everybody knows the dem establishment cheats. EVERYBODY.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
This isn't some big breaking news. It's democratic primaries and everybody knows the dem establishment cheats. EVERYBODY. I guess that makes breaking the law ok, then?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,172
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,172 |
To me, the issue more so is that if you are a republican in California or NY, or a Democrat in Oklahoma of Louisiana then essentially your vote doesn't count With popular vote, if you are in the smaller states your vote wouldn't count.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,376
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,376 |
Hilarious... we went from fear of "voter fraud" as the grounds to make it harder for people to vote, to "election cheating". Lol Trump proved voter fraud is a media lie, so now we're rolling with a new phrase so you can include a bent judge ... lol
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
Hilarious... we went from fear of "voter fraud" as the grounds to make it harder for people to vote, to "election cheating". Lol Trump proved voter fraud is a media lie, so now we're rolling with a new phrase so you can include a bent judge ... lol How is not changing how people vote making it harder? Stuffing ballot boxes is cheating. Voting more than once is fraud.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,987
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,987 |
To me, the issue more so is that if you are a republican in California or NY, or a Democrat in Oklahoma of Louisiana then essentially your vote doesn't count With popular vote, if you are in the smaller states your vote wouldn't count. How? If I live in NYC, you live in rural Ohio. We each have 1 vote. How does 1 count and 1 doesn't? They carry exactly the same weight in a popular vote. What DC said earlier makes a shred of sense, but I still think popular vote is more fair than smaller states' votes carrying more weight as they do now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,376
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,376 |
To me, the issue more so is that if you are a republican in California or NY, or a Democrat in Oklahoma of Louisiana then essentially your vote doesn't count With popular vote, if you are in the smaller states your vote wouldn't count. How? If I live in NYC, you live in rural Ohio. We each have 1 vote. How does 1 count and 1 doesn't? They carry exactly the same weight in a popular vote. What DC said earlier makes a shred of sense, but I still think popular vote is more fair than smaller states' votes carrying more weight as they do now. You are right - Popular vote means all votes count as 1. And everyone's vote is equal. What DC said is correct in that if the interests of big urban populations dominate the elections and then the policies - potentially folks in rural areas may suffer, but there is enough population in rural areas to always be a big enough "swing" vote that they would always influence the election. Even in big urban populations that are solid blue - there is a significant enough % of voters for independents or GOP that it would not be as lop-sided as suggested. However - the current system is never going to change. To change it would require the consent of many of the small states that currently overwhelmingly benefit from the current set up.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,376
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,376 |
Hilarious... we went from fear of "voter fraud" as the grounds to make it harder for people to vote, to "election cheating". Lol Trump proved voter fraud is a media lie, so now we're rolling with a new phrase so you can include a bent judge ... lol How is not changing how people vote making it harder? Stuffing ballot boxes is cheating. Voting more than once is fraud. There are two different issues - the vote by mail issue is a safety factor with CV-19 going on. There is no good reason for people to expose themselves to ANY risk in order to vote when there are easy, safe ways to vote differently. Voting by mail has been going on for a long time and is not "new" https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05/...mp-opposes.htmlAside from that - there is a campaign by the Alt Right and fear mongers that is based on flat out lies, hysteria and propaganda. Efforts to change voting laws and regulations and close polling stations to make it harder for one particular voter type that is traditionally Democratic. . . . The movement is all based on alleged voter fraud - whether it's by illegals or otherwise - The claim has been lead by Trump and Trump supporter. We even saw Trump lie and create lots of noise about this a couple years ago in FL. The truth is there is no mass, wide-spread voter fraud. Trump commissioned a panel to look into it. Handpicked by his best and most loyal .... they found NOTHING. Then there is this today: https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politic...te-fraud-probe/https://www.politico.com/newsletters/flo...employee-489288Meanwhile at the time Trump was saying endlessly there was fraud and claiming the election was being stolen from the Right. Pfft.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
Have you been to the grocery store in the past two months? If you have, how is that different from going to vote?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,366
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,366 |
The thing for me, is this...
You're telling me... that in the year 2020 we don't have the capability of allowing people to exercise their constitutional right w/o exposing themselves to a pandemic?
I'm setting up my house so that my son's ceiling fan turns itself on when his room gets too hot.... I'm installing an accessory that allows me to check if the garage door is open w/o me being there... and I can close it remotely.... my thermostat is learning my household's schedule and is adjusting the HVAC schedule to continually minimize heating/cooling costs w/o affecting comfort.
... but if I want to vote I HAVE to go and stand in line?
Nope. Don't buy it.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
-Ballpeen
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
The thing for me, is this...
You're telling me... that in the year 2020 we don't have the capability of allowing people to exercise their constitutional right w/o exposing themselves to a pandemic?
I'm setting up my house so that my son's ceiling fan turns itself on when his room gets too hot.... I'm installing an accessory that allows me to check if the garage door is open w/o me being there... and I can close it remotely.... my thermostat is learning my household's schedule and is adjusting the HVAC schedule to continually minimize heating/cooling costs w/o affecting comfort.
... but if I want to vote I HAVE to go and stand in line?
Nope. Don't buy it. You should apply for an absentee ballot. Happens all the time.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,376
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,376 |
Have you been to the grocery store in the past two months? If you have, how is that different from going to vote? That's funny right there. How is voting different than buying food to keep myself alive? I'll play along. When I shop I go to my PC - I enter my order. I go park, call a number and someone loads my car. I drive home, the wife wipes all surfaces, puts groceries away and then I shower. None of which has ANYTHING to do with voting or how safe it may or may not be. I supplied you information that Mail in voting is not new. That mass voter fraud is essentially a giant Alt Right myth that has been dis-proven ... and your change of topic is to talk about the risks I may or may not assume when I go grocery shopping. The last time I went into a store was Saturday night before Mothers Day - store was packed. 1/2 wore masks and were always 6 ft apart. 1/2 didn't wear masks. Of the non mask wearers - maybe half were careful with distance ... the other half could give a rats patootie about others. Again - groceries aside - why should ANYONE expose themselves to ANY risk in order to vote when they do not NEED to.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
Let me guess, you're 102 with copd.
This virus is not the black plague, and it's barely worse than the flu. Your risk of voting in person is no more than going grocery shopping, and you're going to touch a lot less things voting. I didn't expect you to catch the comparison.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
BTW, voter fraud has been rampant since voting was invented. In this country, it been everything from giving away liquor at the polls, to the grandfather clause for blacks, to ballot stuffing in Philadelphia for judges (recent), to South Carolina mail in ballots being sent to Maryland (it must be hard to achieve that level of incompetence without conscience effort), to bags of ballots being found on a road (Al Franken). Rushing an all mail ballot will lead to extreme fraud. All states wanting all mail ballots should redo its voter rolls to ensure ballots are only sent to registered voters. There should also be a way to determine a ballot has been received and counted properly.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944 |
This virus is not the black plague, and it's barely worse than the flu. This is so stupid it's hardly worth a reply. When is the last time the flu has killed 100,000 people in less than three months?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944 |
I can renew my drivers license online and have it delivered through the mail. I can have prescription drugs delivered through the mail. But the entire country will go to hell if I vote through the mail. Haven't you heard?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,987
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,987 |
Let me guess, you're 102 with copd.
This virus is not the black plague, and it's barely worse than the flu. Your risk of voting in person is no more than going grocery shopping, and you're going to touch a lot less things voting. I didn't expect you to catch the comparison. Unless we implement 100% delivery service, people NEED to go to the store to survive. People do not NEED to vote in person when there is a better, safer way to do so.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
This virus is not the black plague, and it's barely worse than the flu. This is so stupid it's hardly worth a reply. When is the last time the flu has killed 100,000 people in less than three months? 1967. We didn't shut down the country.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944 |
And Covid 19 is still killing more than 1000 people a day.
Hey, let's just kill everyone! Sounds as if you approve.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944 |
You meant 1968 and that was the entire death toll for the entire year. Not in less than three months.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
I can renew my drivers license online and have it delivered through the mail. I can have prescription drugs delivered through the mail. But the entire country will go to hell if I vote through the mail. Haven't you heard? Apply for an absentee ballot. I can't get my DL renewed online. I have to take an eye test. At your age, you should too
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944 |
Tennessee feels differently. I actually got them renewed for 8 years just last year. I'll be voting in person right down the street from my house.
Sometimes the things I stand up for aren't "just about me".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,366
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,366 |
I'm not saying it'll be easy to implement, nor am I saying it'll be foolproof. There would be a lot of work to be done to get a robust process up and running. I just feel that saying a process that has been largely unchanged for so long can't be improved at all is silly.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
-Ballpeen
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944 |
I think it would be less difficult than many are trying to make it sound. As I have mentioned, people can get prescription drugs sent through the mail. Court subpoenas are sent via mail. My drivers license was renewed through the mail.
States like Oregon have done mail in voting for many years now so a template for how to execute this exists. As for taking a matter of time, most certainly. The difficulty factor not so much.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,797
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,797 |
We should reach a compromise. Vote in person with early voting for at least a month in every state. Automatic registration at 18 and at the polls for anyone who needs to register. If we are going to restrict voting in anyway, let's do it based on IQ.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,376
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,376 |
This virus is not the black plague, and it's barely worse than the flu.
You are simply making up pure lies - or you are unthinkingly repeating Trump lies. There is no other option after you made such an outrageous false claim. https://www.washington.edu/news/2020/05/...-show-symptoms/Seasonal Flu has a mortality rate of 0.1%. CV-19 mortality rates vary around the globe - but even at a somewhat conservative 2% rate - that's TWENTY times more deadly than the flu. If you think that's 'about the same as' - I'd love to play poker with you or any gambling game that requires math and probability. Voter fraud has been SO RAMPANT since the country was born that when Trump tried to look into it - he found NOTHING. I know, I know, I know..... You are a Trump supporter and quite simply and amply demonstrated: #factsdontmatter.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
We should reach a compromise. Vote in person with early voting for at least a month in every state. Automatic registration at 18 and at the polls for anyone who needs to register. If we are going to restrict voting in anyway, let's do it based on IQ. While I would agree on the iq test, I'd like to know what you'd consider a minimum. We all know that would never happen anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
I think it would be less difficult than many are trying to make it sound. As I have mentioned, people can get prescription drugs sent through the mail. Court subpoenas are sent via mail. My drivers license was renewed through the mail.
States like Oregon have done mail in voting for many years now so a template for how to execute this exists. As for taking a matter of time, most certainly. The difficulty factor not so much. States like Oregon voted in a vote by mail initiative. They didn't send absentee ballots to everyone by fiat like Michigan.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,797
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,797 |
For giggles, at least a 95 but would prefer maybe 110 or above. Would be good with 130 or above too, but there would be so few of us then that we would just become another minority ruling class like the elite rich.
And of course since 'Trump', we would have to have triple verification and certification on the testing and results. Else any idiot might claim to be a very stable genius.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 05/22/20 01:31 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,944 |
States like Oregon voted in a vote by mail initiative. They didn't send absentee ballots to everyone by fiat like Michigan. Michigan didn't send out "absentee ballots to everyone". Fact check: Trump falsely claims Michigan sent out absentee ballots and broke the law https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/politics/fact-check-trump-michigan-nevada-ballots-voting/index.htmlWhat they sent were applications for absentee ballots. You do know that absentee ballots are legal and it's legal to apply for them, right? Reading and spreading Trump Tweets usually doesn't age well.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,385
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,385 |
States like Oregon voted in a vote by mail initiative. They didn't send absentee ballots to everyone by fiat like Michigan. Michigan didn't send out "absentee ballots to everyone". Fact check: Trump falsely claims Michigan sent out absentee ballots and broke the law https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/politics/fact-check-trump-michigan-nevada-ballots-voting/index.htmlWhat they sent were applications for absentee ballots. You do know that absentee ballots are legal and it's legal to apply for them, right? Reading and spreading Trump Tweets usually doesn't age well. Correct. Trump incorrectly claimed Michigan's Sec. of State mailed out 7.7 ballots and she called him out on it here. Trump later deleted the original tweet and wrote 'absentee ballot applications'. She still proved his claim incorrect and kindly noted several other GOP states taking the same initiative.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trump says he opposes mail-in
voting for November
|
|
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
