DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Black/White

I get what you are saying. I keep reading about white people need to talk about this and then when we do, we get a "white" guy telling us we are not qualified to talk about it. Screw it.

Yeah lmao, that is one thing I am not afraid to talk about. Some of these white knights need to calm down. I actually think at times they come of a bit racist themselves.

Hell, I have been called a "white knight," but damn man, killing conversation is not a good thing. We need to get people talking. As in..........actually talking.

I think it's been better over the last few weeks, but probably not good enough.

I have not seen anyone defend what happened in Minneapolis, and many have spoken out, including police. It's good, but it needs to keep getting better.

I agree w/that, bro. I was speaking about some of the dudes on the board who continually try and kill meaningful conversation.

Can you stop being the victim for one damn minute? Nobody says you can't talk about it, nobody. I simply expressed that maybe we need to listen to the people affected by racism the most. Get their perspective and maybe let them take the lead in the conversation. But if you want to be the black voice, have at it... smh.

STFU w/the victim crap. I don't feel like a "victim." You can't debate and resort to that crap.

I asked you what reversed racism was , but you never gave me an explanation. I did see you respond to Vers with no importance to the subject.

It's a battle cry from the "I'm not a racists" crowd talking about how affirmative action and other measures to help POC are unfair to white people because they are struggling too. This wiki page does a better job of explaining it than I can in a short post.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_racism

It is nothing more than a defense mechanism to defend the viewpoint that these 'special programs' shouldn't exists and racism in America is all but dead. It muddies the water and distracts from the fact that POC are being targeted and treated brutally in this country. I threw it out there to head off the inevitable use of it in this thread. Now I'm stuck explaining it, which is the opposite of my intention of taking it off the table. And that's why I ignored you at first hoping you might google it.

Fear of losing a job or college entrance to a woman or minority, because you are not a woman or minority.

Simple answer? because there's so much to gain by perpetuating the problem. There's too much control at stake to allow the populace to actually come together and move forward. Skin color isn't even half of the issue.

Some interesting takes.

Time is the only thing that will fix the problem. It's not like flipping a switch to turn a light on or off.

We have seen great progress over the last 60 years. Give it another 60 and much more will be made.

The biggest slowdown is the plantation economics the democrats have placed over people of color. As long as people of color continue to line up behind the democrats, they are going to remain on the plantation.

It's not the entire issue, but I'd argue it's close to half.

The other half is socioeconomics and the lack of social mobility in the country. I have a feeling we may disagree on the mobility aspect, but think about something that happened in the late 60s till early 70s.

MLK Jr. wasn't assassinated while he was trying to advocate for rights for African Americans. He was assassinated while he was about to launch the most successful wealth distribution campaign this country may have ever witnessed.

Because I am white and certain people don't think I should have an opinion on how to fix this issue, I will let President Obama talk for me: "Too many fathers are M.I.A, too many fathers are AWOL, missing from too many lives and too many homes." This was from a speech Obama gave back in 2008 to black leaders, and I recommend you go and read the whole speech. This issue has only gotten worse since then.

Twice as many black children grow up in single parent households as whites. Now, the question is, why? Is it because so many black fathers are in prison? Partly, but I cannot agree that it is the only reason.

I agree the the criminal just system is broken, and incarcerates too many black fathers. I agree that sentencing needs to be standardized for all races and income levels. Decriminalization of marijuana? Maybe, but we need to be cautious there. Reduced sentences? Definitely. However, it really boils down to a chicken or egg situation, and it turns into a neverending cycle. More blacks get in trouble with the law because so many grow up without fathers, but many grow up without fathers because they are in trouble with the law.

Someone on this thread said we've made such progress since the 60's, and in some areas, we have. However, the issue of absent black fathers has gotten considerably worse since then. Why is that?

This might ruffle some feathers, but it has been the women's rights movement. Black men face more competition from women in the workforce, hurting their role as a provider. Single mothers receive more assistance from the government, lowering their dependence on a man to support them. Men really have no rights when it comes to child support and custody - this needs to change. These issues have effected white families as well, but has hurt black families disproportionately.

I agree with the message "Black lives matter." Jesus didn't say "All sheep matter." He left the 99 sheep to help the one that that needed saved. And I agree that black communities need help. But this is where I disagree with the BLM movement.

Police brutality is a problem, but it is more a of symptom than a cause. I see a lot of posts from BLM that try to sweep the issue of absent black fathers under the rug. Instead, they focus on things like police brutality, Confederate flags, former slave owners from the 1800's, etc., that don't really fix anything. I also can't agree the tactics they use when any white person utters an OPINION they don't agree with - take Drew Brees for example. He made a statement that was his personal opinion, and he got lambasted by BLM for it. What happened to freedom of speech? Unless you follow lock-and-step with them, you are considered a racist.

Until the issue of absent black fathers is fixed, I don't see how this situation will be fixed - black children will always be at a disadvantage if they grow up without a father; biases will always exist if a disproportionate percentage of black children grow up without fathers.

So, how do we fix it? I've already posted a couple ideas:

Standard sentencing for all races and income levels.

Smaller sentences and more social services help for drug offenses.

Increased rights for men in child support and custody.

And finally, as someone who is looking to adopt someday - lowering the cost of adoption.

I'd love to hear others' opinions on this issue.

Your statement blaming democrats reminds me of Trump’s "What do you have to lose?" reasoning.

That’s a mindless statement and we now have the answers. No minority should vote GOP.

I think the GOP wold have a better chance of getting vote if they were less offensive to minorities.

+1

If anyone has watched Milk, I think it explains how to overcome that fear. There was a push for all LG (not sure about the B, T and Q - at least within the movie and real life 80's) to come out to everyone they know. Why? Because it forces people to learn they already know, trust and like people with different sexual preferences. That's a bug hurdle to jump if you've never met a type of person and only heard bad things.

Meeting people, talking, learning what makes them tick, really breaks down all the barriers and walls that might be up. You end up realizing, damn, we're all about the same in what we want. Plus, there's way better reasons why to dislike another person (Steelers, Ravens and Bengals fans, I'm looking at you :p).

A little bit about me, I remember being in 3rd or 4th grade and reading a baseball book on the floor in the school library. It was a book about Willie Mays and the racial abuse he endured. I distinctly remember reading parts and not understanding why that was a thing all those years before, never even thinking it was still around. That shaped my viewpoint for the rest of my life. I've always been the guy that told a friend to not say X or don't think like Y, that's not the right way.

My two hero's growing up were Hank Aaron and Jackie Robinson. To this day, thinking about their lives and the struggle they endured makes me sick. Sure, it's just a sport and I never met them, only read their books, but their lives helped change me.

I'm an aging white dude that lived in a quiet Ohio suburb, but I've had lots of non-white friends, worked in a diverse global company for 20+ years and I married into a Filipino family. I'm still learning, growing and trying to affect change.

While I absolutely do not discount that there is pure racism, and I absolutely do not want to down play its very real existence, I think that it frequently gets confused with culture clash. And yes, I do realize that this is not only a generalization, but is my outside-looking-in perception regarding half of this, but I can only truly look from the perspectives I know; I have to use my imagination for the others, which is where I'd like feedback.

Most of the issues, I feel, are really just differences in culture and not precisely an issue of skin color. Skin color is the outwardly visible identifier that mistakenly gets applied to much of it. The basis of the confusion is that the predominant culture in the western world is the culture that settled the western world: Anglo-European; which is often just called "White", right or wrong.
This is the culture of middle-class America and the entire business world, sans Asia.

The predominant culture in Black America is, well, I don't know what the term for it is, but the best descriptor I can think of is the hip hop/street culture and they openly reject most anything to do with the predominant anglo-euro culture to the extent that if a black person does, it is not at all uncommon for them to be called "not black" or get "Uncle Tom'd". White people that reject the anglo culture and embrace the hip hop/street culture are frequently called "wiggers".

This division also just so happens to run almost perfectly down economic divides with the anglo culture being the more well-to-do since it is the culture of the business world and the street culture being the poorer neighborhoods, where due to poverty crime tends to be MUCH higher. Most of these neighborhoods are predominantly black.

So, what does this set up?
This means that most black in America today are growing up on poorer neighborhoods and being raised in, or are adopting during their teens, a culture that doesn't lend itself to functioning in the other world; those people are far less likely to end up in jobs that have advancement opportunities or a career path. Their earnings are lower, they are most likely hourly workers and may have to bust ass at two jobs to stay afloat. This keeps them firmly rutted in poorer neighborhoods and sets up a cycle. Poverty breeds crime because kids growing up look at the exact previous scenario and figure why kill yourself when you can earn fast money, be it stealing things or slinging dope? An increase in crime is an increase is arrests and a disproportionate representation in crime statistics. If you want to take a better look at crime stats, add in economic background data to the racial data they love to show. You'll see it bear out that the real inequality is cultural and then economic, skin color is just incidental.

There is a ton more that could be said here and I know that I am probably missing a lot of points or not explaining my thoughts well, but that's what I've got.

No that's not it. can't include the part following "because". ... in fact that's not it at all.

No minority should vote gop? I hope you're not suggesting they vote democrat.

The democrats, who were the party of the south and slavery. The party of Jim Crow and grandfather clauses for voting. The party that decided to give welfare, food stamps, and subsidised housing to minorites, as long as they lived 'over there'. The party that lowers expectations in schools, because their beloved minorities are too inferior. The party that always promises to throw more money at minority problems, but only pays themselves in the end. The party, to paraphrase Ben Carson, wants to pat those minorities on their heads and say, 'we know you can't make it on your own without our help'. I really hope you don't suggest minorities vote for them.

Any insinuation that anyone should vote for any particular party simply due to the color of their skin is pure idiocy.

A person should vote for the candidate/party that they feel best represents their interests. Period.
People other than that individual do not get input as to whom that is. Period.

Do/Did/Would/Should you think the education systems, (intellectuals), media, forcing one way of thinking on the entirety of the country is part of the problem, I do.

"vote for somebody that they feel best represents their interests"
_____

Dude I'm not going to vote for somebody who best represents my interests, but for someone that best represents the interests of the whole country for the better, which will make my experience better.

That was then, this is now.

The Trump GOP is the one of law and order, which means babies in cages and snuffing out black people by cops.

and because that is your intent, that is the person that best represents your interests.

No wait dude, wait wait wait wait,
I was reading all along fine till the end,
"standard sentences, and smaller sentences' is your solution, are you sayin,
are you trying to say,

that lawlessness is somehow assumed in the black child that grows up without a father, and it's ok.
No No, follow the law and you don't go to jail, doesn't matter what race you are, or whether you have a father in your home or not.

The law is there for a reason, respect for people, respect for others' property, your own property, and if they say don't smoke marijuana, how bout, don't smoke marijuana.

I'm not going to listen for advocating a society that makes an excuse for lawbreaking because somebody is in some family situation.
If someone steals a car they are a car thief. If they don't they are not.
If 99% of people are facing the consequences of stealing a car if they stole it, then it's not the fault of the law which says cars belong to who bought them,

it's the fault of the people who chose to steal the cars and you can't assume the solution is to accept everyone who is in a bad situation doesn't have the ability to follow the law,
and thus help em by removing the consequences for breaking the law.

We live in a society that goes to war on 8 seconds of video.
In 2003, maybe 02, some narrative, some reason to go into Iraq,

we have 4 seconds of some arab in appearance men in the desert grabbing overhead bars to hold and swing forward across an 8 foot stretch, of a jungle gym type apparatus, monkey bars used to be their name when I was a small child, (training in the desert)

and 4 seconds of men firing automatic weapons into the air surrounding a Toyota pickup, and these were repeated on television dozens of times that I saw, over a several week period.

First step to stop being told what and how to think is to realize it's occurring.

j/c

This is an issue that I feel most of the people responding to have no clue about. I've said before that nobody has a clue what someone else has to go through unless you have walked a mile in their shoes.

Clem made a post some time ago about what minorities call "the talk". Can you imagine having to sit down with your child and explain all the things they must do and exactly every move they must make and everything they say is critical to them making it home alive? I would say that anyone who is not a minority can not actually imagine what it would be like when every time your child goes out you hope they learned that lesson to the letter so they make it back home safe.

My father was a union man. I know the very thought of that sickens some of you but I really don't care. He taught me something very early in life. He came from the mountains of SE Kentucky. He was born in 1930 and let me tell you something, when he was growing up, he knew what abject poverty meant. He left those mountains because he knew poverty would be a constant in his life if he didn't.

But what he taught me when I was very young is still true to this day. He explained to me how the wealthy in our nation had the power to be in control. That their goal was to keep the poor divided. That as long as poor black people and poor white people were divided and fighting amongst themselves, they would never hold any power.

And to this day, the wealthy and powerful, along with those who believe and follow them, keep that divide alive. They are fully aware there are more of us than there are those that continue to sow the divide. So their answer is to point the finger back at those fighting for equality and justice. To blame those fighting for that cause to appear to be reason these things exist.

They say being loud about it, protesting about it is "creating division". No, it's not! The division is ingrained into the system that has been created that brought these conditions about in the first place. But rather than point the finger at the existing system, they would rather rail and drone on about those who are willing to do what ever they can to change it.

They ignore that people have been "talking about it nicely" since the end of the Civil war. That just as with Native Americans, promises keep being made while those promises keep getting broken. They say things like, "These problems won't be fixed over night". I guess somehow they feel that from 1865 until 2020 is considered "overnight".

The one hope that stands out more than anything else I've seen is that this time, you see people of all colors and all ages in these protests to such a huge extent it's like nothing I've ever seen before. It seems as if the poor and the compassionate are finally coming together as one. And there's a lot more of them than there are on the other side. Naturally that too is being fought with resistance and labeling. That tired, old tactics used by oppressors for so long. They say it's kissing the asses of black people. That it's political correctness and so on. That those with opposing views are being silenced. Nobody is silencing you. They are however loudly calling you out on your ignorance.

And for anyone considering preaching to me about my "us verses them" comments? Don't bother. That's the reality and it's been that way throughout the history of this country. People have pretended that's the wrong approach and singing Kumbaya is the answer for too long. That's naivety at best.

That's exactly the mentality that's gotten us to where we are now. Where are we now? At that place where black families have to teach their children every move they make and everything they say just so they make it home alive. That is not acceptable.

Not sure how you got that out of what I wrote, but I will clarify.

Poor people often receive harsher sentences than people with money, mostly because they can't afford or don't have access too good lawyers. A person's sentencing should not be determined by how much money they have; the system is broken. No doubt, there are also probably a few racist judges that sentence a POC more harshly than a white person. That needs changed and monitored as well.

Never said there shouldn't be any consequences for breaking the law; however, you also shouldn't spend years behind bars because you got caught with a bag of weed. Most drug users need help, not prison sentences. Dealers...those are the people that need prison.

Breaking laws needs consequences, I agree. I just think we need to do a better job determining what those consequences are.

That's the problem. People have been conditioned to live meager existences with no real opportunity.

Collect the government cheese and hoe the row.


Plantation living, just like great, great, great Grandma and Grandpa lived. They would be proud for sure.

The difference is they had no choice. Today people do, but many still elect to collect the crappy Velveeta cheese.


If that is what ya'll want, that is what you will get from your elected officials. You will get a block of cheese a week.

If you want the cheese, quit complaining and be satisfied.

Yeah, that's what they want.

I think you are kidding yourself if you don't think a large percentage are perfectly happy being on the public handout.

We can't deny the black persons experience in a racist society.

The system is broken, because the system, has always, been about the interests of big business and big wealth.

Equality means everybody gets better without some being considered superior and others inferior.

( And if u watch the NBC, or listen to national radio, and I'll hear comments, this is actually what I heard. (White people need to acknowledge the pain they've infliceted on the black community.)

Well, Ok, have you been alive for the last 30 years, that's all we do as a society, inherently, every day, every hour, every show, every lecture, every message, every time.

Oh it's diversity. But we have to not ignore the black persons experience in all of this.

(Black people need to acknowledge the pain they've inflicted on the white community)

Oh wait wait wait wait, we cannot have a white community, for doing so is racist, hateful, supremacist, it's the most disgusting thing - as demonstrated by how it's treated in a media message dominated society.


( Can't ignore how racism effects white people in America)

But you can't have a white community, because it's not allowed to exist, because if you have something like a unite the right rally, millions will gather in message and marching to call it hate, and the biggest problem ever assembled, something we must annihilate, because we cannot have it, anywhere in society.

(Watched TMZ... Hollywood television show, lovely show, The #2 anchor, wears a shirt says, I root for everything black, cool shirt, cool concept, wouldn't work for white people)

2019, Local news story, someone in a school posted on a wall in a school, " It's ok to be white", News says the authorities have them on camera and are aware of the situation.

So, The protests, BLM starts in Columbus 2 weeks ago, (yest, the radio said was exactly 14 days, in ref, to corona incubation period, whatever)

A Thursday night, the local news has 2 crews on the scene to cover the story of the marchers, it's pretty sweet, but when the cameras start rolling the ones who want seen get more animated, then, later some start breaking glass,
Maybe that was Wed, but the Thursday night in question, I'm sure it's the 2nd night of coverage I watched, the 2 street corners, well things got ugly
the street corner away from the main event the 2nd on camera person was talking one minute, and 5 minutes later a tv car from that intersection was seen driving off with busted back and front windshields
Might have been the same night a group of ten or so butsted through the outside door of the statehouse, and at least one got tased by state patrol waiting on the other side of an inside door, both door sets separated by a small vestibule type thing,

SO! So the next night, the main newss anchor Bob Kendrick is on tv from his house type, corona type of a feed, apologizing through near tears for offending by posting the word animals to describe the crowd,:::(that was around his own news van, and he wasn't one of either of the two news crews live on the broadcast that night, but he referenced it was in reference to people who broke things and climbed on top of his vehicle) ::: on his personal facebook, (on his personal facebook), and he's off the air.

Well he's coming back tonight, last night, it's been said. Oh Bob Kendrick is white, not that it matters, it only matters if you think white people can experience racism or if a black person had said this then he would not have been taken off the air.

We are being taught, in this country, < forget that a second.

I was told by the media study or survey or whatever a few years ago, Black people experience racism as a system institutionalized preventing them getting ahead,
wherein
White people, experience racism as an action or something commited which people do.

This is the help. People need to live in a society where they can get ahead without discrination.

The espoused phrase "white privelage" while in error, I personally find about as racist as if someone uses the N word with inferior type meanings.

Basically there is a privelage a black person has of not facing job career loss for if they happen to say something that happens to be deemed offensive by any sort of everchanging standard.

See, some multiple number of broadcasters around espn were called out in referring to Yao Ming in about 2017 with the same phrase or actually referring to his game defense. I don't recall, but in context I didn't think it offensive against his character.

So we have to not overlook the experience of Black people in reference to racism as it exists in this Country, and the same for white people.

You must have missed the latest 'we're with you' pandering by the dems with their kinte cloths. It's obvious you missed obummer putting kids in cages (who do you think built them?). Don't forget, more blacks are killed by abortionists than cops could ever kill in a year. All brought to you by the democrat, former slavery party.

Ah, handout. Are you referring to the very least the government sees as the bare minimum of avoiding civil war in our streets?

Are there some that are content with that? Sure. But I think "a large percentage" is something you have conceived in your mind.

This is why so few actually take you seriously.

Politifact - Kinte Cloth

whataboutism at its finest.

I think a big part of the reason racism exists is because of psychology and language. Psychology not in the sense that people are inherently racist, but the way our brains interpret information and make associations. Our brains often sort information by arranging things in groups, but these groups are based on an individual's perception and can become rather fixed even though there isn't a well thought out reason. Things are kind of thrown in the first box that comes to mind, and it's not always the best box. We can create false dichotomies as a means of quickly sorting ideas. However, in real life, things often lie along a spectrum rather than fitting neatly into distinct boxes. We separate "races" into white and black boxes, when really there are few/no true black or white people. We're all varying shades of the same color based upon melanin. However, the language we choose (that was chosen and we continue to accept) to use presents the different groups as having seemingly insurmountable differences or as being "polar opposites."

How/Why did we choose white and black to be the descriptors we use? They're not really accurate. Plus, they bring with them all sorts of connotations and loaded emotions (good/evil, life/death, blackhearted, black magic, etc.)

I think some of it most likely was intentional to mitigate feelings of guilt for treating other people differently. I.e, we're treating them different because they are different in this easily identifiable way. The difference isn't really meaningful in any significant way, but it marks them as clearly "other."

Are there other less loaded words we could use?

Why do so many people take pride in such thoughtless labels? I suppose it goes back to language and connotations and the BS lies and distinctions we allow ourselves to accept in order to feel better about ourselves.