DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Black/White

Yes, evolution is a long process. After 400 years it's nice to know that here in America, we have finally reached the point that the vast majority have moved "further down that spectrum toward acceptance and tolerance" than in the 1700's or the 1960's.

My honest answer looks just fine on me. Now wipe the egg off your face.

It hasn't been 400 years... really making a concerted effort to move people down the spectrum is only about 100+ years in the process. It's also not "here in America", it's everywhere... all over the world in every nation and within every group of people there is bigotry and stereotyping and hatred...

We weren't speaking in the context of "all over the world". And as far as being ingrained on the shores of our continent we now know as The United states, yes it has been close to 400 years. To pretend that something doesn't count because we didn't start trying to change it 400 years ago is debatable at best.

The Civil War began in 1861 and the Emancipation Proclamation was delivered in 1863. Yet abolitionists in the north had been fighting that battle long before the Civil War ever began.

That was my earlier point - something that's been around for 400 years, ingrained and accepted as the norm, isn't going to 'go away' after 50 years.

And as sensitive and defensive as so many people get when talking about racism - it's not like there are many real conversations about the issues. Good grief, it took all of a couple of days after George Floyd and the protests for some to start trotting out with the "well what about black on black killings" .... a total crock and a total distraction from unjustified police killings and a total "enabling" tactic whether the person wants to acknowledge that or not.

I will go back to my reply above.



Where we disagree is I see the civil war and the emancipation proclamation as the beginning of the fight. Abolitionists were fighting against slavery even before the war. So I see it as a 160+ year struggle. The 1960's were just a reflex because no matter how long and hard the battle had been fought since the Civil war ended, nothing was really changing.

I think the reason that many see things from the perspective that the 1960's were the beginning were because the fight became more unified and the media picked up on it. With the emergence of MLK as the struggles leader and national news coverage bringing it into the living rooms of all Americans, more focus and attention were brought to the cause.

But we can go back as far as Frederick Douglass to see the fight has been ongoing since the 1800's.

Why not? We are the world, we are the children... Slavery has been around for 5,000 years+. People of almost every race and religion have been slaves at some point and most have also been slave owners at some point.

So you have 5000 years of slave history from the first evidence of slavery through the period from the mid 1700s to the mid 1800s which is when most of Europe and North America abolished slavery.

From that point forward, in this country, you have several distinguishable landmarks.. From civil war to Jim Crow laws, from Jim Crow laws to desegregation, from desegregation to civil rights act, from civil rights act to now.


It's not about pretending or what counts and what doesn't.. I have no doubt that in every culture on every continent where slavery has existed, there has always been some group of the non-slave class that felt it was wrong and would rather change it.

My point is not "Look how far we've come in the last 100 years or 50 years, so black people should shut up and be happy".. that is 100% NOT MY POINT.

My point is (or was) that slavery has been ingrained in humanity for thousands of years... and not just slavery but the racism, bigotry, hatred, prejudice that led to dehumanizing slavery.... still exists, all over the world.... overcoming it in this country has come a long way, with a long way to go and it improves with every generation..

But in my generation, in my own lifetime (and yours)...

We have gone from this being perfectly acceptable to most people in the south...



to this being preferred by most people in the south...



So I will not apologize for at least recognizing the progress made, while trying not to minimize the work left to do.

It's odd how there are times people say "We aren't like the rest of the world!" when it comes to things like national healthcare which most of the civilized world has. Then those same people try to use, "Why not? Slavery has been part of the world for over 5000 years?"



It sounds as if you're making my point for me. It's been an ongoing work in progress from the 1860's until now. Not just the past 50 years. Nobody actually asked you to apologize for anything.

You and I have been talking one on one for a few rounds on this topic and you responded directly to me and quoted my own words, so if you are accusing me of something, accuse me... stop with the cowardly "people say" and "the same people say".. I don't speak for "people" and I don't give a crap what they say...


My point is that in the course of a 5000 year history of the ebb and flow of slavery.... picking a start date of when we started to end it is somewhat pointless. Pick 1820, 1860, desegregation, civil rights act.. pick any date you want, it doesn't matter. From each one of those dates to the next opinions changed and things improved, sometimes more than others... but at no point has there been more progress than in the last 50 years..

I think going forward, it’s important to recognize that people can, and do change. Even really hard core haters can change their thinking and behavior.

I know guys who drove around with confederate flag emblems on the back of their trucks 20 years ago who have done a complete 180.

I know a neighbor who is a devout Christian who was very anti-gay and after a short period of knowing her and letting her get to know me, she was leaving her kids with me to babysit.

I find the gentle approach works best, but I understand the anger and need for, at times, a more aggressive approach. It gets everyone’s attention, which is much needed in a society. But change mostly comes from within. From interacting with your fellow humans and teaching them. Not lecturing, but communicating person to person.

We are all struggling. Even the people who are so hateful and against anyone different than themselves. They are actually the most fearful and weak. I honestly feel sorry for them, but their behavior cannot be allowed to continue. The changes coming won’t be easy for them, and that’s a good thing.

I need a love option

He will not answer you bro. He will run and hide like he always does under his bridge. Whenever I or others embarrass him as we do on a regular basis, he runs and hides. Maybe when he reaches puberty and his two boys drop, then he might respond.

I’ve been watching straight males discuss gay issues for two decades on these boards. Sometimes infuriating, sometimes hilarious, but yes, always an eye-opener. And mostly....your last sentence has applied.

At least they've moved beyond the toaster argument?

What on earth are you talking about? He said that it wasn't a good look for GM to say that there might be an instance to shoot somebody from behind. I gave an example. Nothing more. I sure as hell didn't link it to the guy in Atlanta. Talk about being lost in the weeds.

Don't fall in to the trap of debating that which has little relevance to the problem at hand. What's more relevant are the people and their positions that you listed earlier. If "institutional" and "systemic" change are what someone is after, holding positions of mayor, city/county councils, police chiefs, DA's, etc are exactly the positions you want to occupy in order to affect change.

But you see, it creates more angst and stokes the emotional response when you make the problem vague and faceless.

Maybe that's why you saw more deflection than Luke Skywalker facing a bunch of Stormtroopers when you mentioned them?

OK time to stir the pot. Why is it that some of you still bring up black/vs white? I brought it up in the title of this thread to try to get folks to talk about their differences. Some folks discusused it in an honest and open manner. (thank you so much for those of you who care about your fellow man/woman)Others used it to bash/blame others for their own feelings (no need to deny it everybody saw what you posted)

It's way past time for everybody to set aside their differences and worry about us all getting along on a even field.

forgive me for thinking the big news of the day - another unarmed black guy getting killed by the police ... while running away from them and being shot in the back - was what sparked the tit for tat that was going on.

I think discussing scenarios and "what if this" and "what about that" distracts from the simple scenario that was an unarmed black man being killed for resisting arrest while not endangering anyone's life. I think it's a given that any time someone's life is threatened - innocent by-stander or uniformed officer, whoever - the use of deadly force is going to be accepted as a legitimate response. I'm guessing you agree. So what are we going to discuss or agree on regarding when the police use deadly force in unwarranted situations?

IMO what we need to discuss is just was/is/and will be warrented situations. IMO and I know I will catch hell for it is what should happen to folks who don't listen to and obey cops.

I thing 99 percent of us agree that being killed by the police for no reason has to stop as of yesterday. Only a racist donkey would disagree IMO.

Except, he was drunk. He fell asleep in a drive through lane. Imagine who he may have killed while driving drunk.

He was cooperative, right up until he wasn't. He fought 2 officers.

He was NOT un armed - he stole the 1 officers taser. As he was running, he used the taser. Watch the longer video.

Did he just want to get away? Sure.

Was he stupid for doing everything he did? Yes.

Did he fire a taser at an officer? Yes.

Did he deserve to die for that? No.


So, actually, he WAS endangering someone's life. So really, your post holds little merit other than the guy did not deserve to die.

If that's an apology for your smartazz comment about my post, you are forgiven.

Let me ask you an honest question bro. If you think I am in public and aiming a gun at you, would you listen to what I am saying? or berate me for not allowing you to do what ever the hell you want to?

IMO what you should do is somewhere in the middle. Why would you ignore a police officers orders?

I don't know.. I love you so much Jules and respect your views. But do I have to start liking Steeler fans ?

Wow ... i agree anyone and everyone should listen and obey cops.

I think disobeying cops, not listening to them and resisting arrest are not an automatic green light to use deadly force. There are folks with mental issues, there can be folks on drugs, and there might even be minorities who fear for their life if they let the police cuff them....

Its not hard.... hearing "he shoulda just did what he was told" as justification for killing is just crazy to me.

Alcohol or drugs can and do make you make irrational decisions. It was clear he was under the influence of something. Let him run home and try to sleep it off. You have his car and personal info.

A cop wearing a bullet proof vest fearing for his life over a taser gun ? LMFAO !

I as well...

j/c:

Why is there so much focus on the police and absolutely no focus on gang activity when we are talking about those who harm the black community?

The more people go on the warpath against the police, the more I wonder why they never go on tirades about the amount of damage gang activity brings to their community.

The police might be a problem for blacks. I get that they profile blacks. I get they pull you over when you should not be pulled over.

But man, you have far worse enemies. Most of them reside in your impoverished neighborhoods and have the same color skin you do.

I ain't telling you what to do, but if you want the help of white people in fighting for a better life, you might want to at least stop pointing fingers in the wrong freaking direction.

The Bloods a Crypts kill more blacks if you believe thats not racism . This is about stupid white cops killing blacks for the hell of it.

Are gang members paid government employees with the sworn duty “to protect and serve”?

I think what we should be rethinking the concept of “equal justice for all” all means all and we should not have criteria that results in the police not being held accountable for poor behavior..

There are a lot of times when under the same circumstances, the black person dies and the white person lives... that is the problem.

Is this really what people want ..... for someone to basically be threatened into an apology for wearing a T-shirt ...... with a TV network logo on it?

Really?

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...otball-program/

This is just sad. No one can disagree ... even in the slightest .....

They can't even watch a different TV network ...... or have a different political view ........?

This is how fascism starts .....

Right is right and wrong is wrong.

Full stop.

I don't think anybody said it justifies killing them, but it could lead to that or to at least being handled in a very unpleasant manner.

Yet you guys voted for and support the baby man who fans the flames hate from his toilet seat every night.. LOL Pffft trump supporters.

Just saw this a few minutes ago. Unreal! He better toss those Fox News socks or the poop will really hit the fan!

There are times I read the news and feel like I must have woke up in some alternate universe...

Thanks for embarrassing yourself yet again I don't even like Trump or support him.

As long as we've gone back and forth on these boards, I would think you know I'm not bashful. If I felt my generalization applied to you specifically, I'd say so. Your "cowardly" comment rings hollow and you know it. It seems that lately you find tactics you used to rail against a useful tool. It's a sign of the times. And yes, I'm directing that at you.



That's two separate issues. We both know why that's happened. It's no different than why the Vietnam war became such a divisive issue. Because truth was brought into our living rooms. We actually saw first hand exactly what was going on. People could no longer deny the truth. People found the truth shocking and disgusting. Even though now people actually try to claim what they're seeing isn't the truth.

It was no longer the demagogues ruling the conversation. What people were seeing in their living rooms on the nightly news created an awakening. Let's not pretend the human mind just became more progressive and people suddenly became enlightened.

I thought you said you voted for him? If you did, that's the biggest form of support you could have given him.

No, this is how fascism starts...

Fox News runs digitally altered images in coverage of Seattle’s protests, Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-new...utonomous-zone/

You doctor and make up photos to make the other side look far worse than they are to convince people of the things you want them to believe. FOX News isn't the victim. They're in the business of creating victims.

Did I bring up FOX? Nope. I said that threatening people to "change" their minds is where fascism starts, and I stand by it. Threatening people to not state their opinions freely is where it starts. Making people afraid to speak up with unpopular opinions on issues is. where it starts

One national TV network out of 10 (or more) is not.