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And your opinion is based on a false superiority complex, that apparently gives you the belief you are qualified to judge other people's experiences, while telling them they aren't qualified to judge others themselves.

It's so cute that some of you still believe Trump is innocent.

Didn't you know? Innocent people always block witnesses with first hand knowledge from testifying. FOX News said so.

It seems to me the left took 3 years to prove him guilty, and failed. In this country, he is innocent. In the country you seem to want, everyone is guilty until the mob changes their mind.

Then the left should have taken the time to write a subpoena. They failed in that too.

Nothing more than an excuse. "I couldn't make it big because the man was keeping me down".

You do understand that being impeached means you are guilty, right? The senate decides whether you should be removed from office.

We all know Bill Clinton lied under oath. He was certainly guilty of it. Yet the senate decided that it wasn't worth removing him from office for.

As hard as you try, you can't rewrite history.

j/c...

Thanks - perfect example of the perception that needs to be changed by this current movement. Keep posting so we can verify and see the issues.

They can sure as hell ignore facts.

They sure as hell can cling to Barr's lies during the unprecedented press conference stunt he pulled where he lied to the world insinuating Trump was exonerated by Mueller.

They can continue to ignore and lie about the Mueller investigation that was a Republican appointed investigation and that Mueller is and was a Republican.

They can ignore and lie about the fact that a Republican appointed judge stated that Barr could not be trusted with regard to any of his public comments about the Mueller investigation.

They can ignore and lie about the impeachment and how for years they loved to say Bill was impeached - but somehow the exact same set of circumstances for Trump somehow means he was never impeached !

#factsabsolutelydonotmattertoTrumpsupporters

Haha, only you would try to say that Pit!

Let's see what actually happened:
1. You argued that BLM is making changes, citing police policy changes
2. I argued that policy changes won't work unless you also change hearts and minds
3. YOU made a dumb argument saying changing hearts and minds doesn't matter unless you change policies and law too
4. I showed an example, citing the lack of beastiality laws, that proves this is untrue
5. Pitt: OMG! You think hearts and minds and thoughts and prayers will fix everything!

Despite me citing numerous policies throughout this thread that need changed.

It's hard enough having these conversations with critically-thinking adults. It's impossible to have them with people who read into things what they want to read just to make an argument.

I know this is probably hard for you, but try reading posts with a learning mindset, instead of just skimming them looking for something to argue about.

You can feel like that all you want. Changes are happening and you just need to accept the change is occurring due to a movement that upsets you.



You must've been one of those people who thought people would marry toasters if we allowed same-sex marriage.

[quoteI]t's hard enough having these conversations with critically-thinking adults.[/quote]

Not really. Just accept facts, admit you're upset about minorities protesting in a way you don't like, and move on from there.



Says the guy who is convinced BLM does nothing but create division. You're doing great and learning and listening there!

Says the person who claimed that 11 states didn't have beastiality laws because everyone already knows it's wrong. Yeah, it the other 39 states that got it wrong.

I have shown you by the diversity in the crowds that hearts and minds have already been changed. You ignore it.

I have shown you that every major social change has come through protests and civil disobedience. You ignore it.

Nobody is going to change your mind so why would anyone bother?

Let's not rewrite history, then. Impeached by a completely biased democrat led house, that voted to impeach without any incriminating evidence.

There! Literally proof right there of what I was just saying! You guys read stuff just to make an argument!

How does that comment even make sense? I was the one arguing that policies don't need made if everyone already knows it's wrong!

Everyone already know marrying a toaster is wrong! Why would I think people would marry toasters if everyone knows it's wrong, even if there is no law? You can't even make a logical argument for that! So, you are agreeing with me?

Thank you for proving my point! You guys are "lost in the woods!"

Everyone knows robbing banks and committing murder is wrong too. I wonder why there are laws against those things?

In what way is the playing field unlevel? What is "the playing field?" Who is it level for? Yes, there are horrible people and bad things happen, but it's not universal or even country wide. Yes, there have been racist business owners that hire less qualified Caucasians, but there are also business owners that go out of there way to help minorities. It comes down to a matter of perspective and the all or nothing narratives that are constantly shoved into people's subconscious through the media crush people's sense of control. There's a difference between limited control and no control. Everyone has to deal with some things that they can't control. However, everyone also has things that they can control (i.e, their own actions and responses to situations.)

Don't get me wrong. There are still inequalities. Minorities definitely face obstacles that others don't. But making the obstacles seem insurmountable makes things even harder for minorities. It's like chaining them to a psychic boulder.

Painting "the system" as some monstrous entity shades every interaction with it which contributes to the interactions being less than ideal (and sometimes outright horrific as we've seen recently.) The system undoubtedly has its flaws. Everything can always improve. It just seems that many people have a skewed, emotional, subjective view. Objectivity is not our nation's strong point.

It works both ways as well. The media frequently presents minorities as "monstrous." People in the "system" can be influenced by that subconscious narrative. It sets expectations, and People frequently "see" what they expect to see. Things like many rap songs are probably not great for race relations, that may be the main exposure some people get to minorities. It subconsciously sets their expectations.

It's easy to get caught up in seeing obstacles instead of looking for opportunities. Especially when the message is constantly sent that the entire system is against you. I guess bad news stirs stronger emotions, so it makes more money to focus on selling it.

People get stuck believing misguided generalizations.

So to go back to your snide remarks, it's not "If you just pull up your bootstraps, we'll end racism." On the other hand if you don't pull up your bootstraps it probably contributes to racism. What positive outcomes come without working for them? What message are you trying to send?

Don't worry, we'll fix everything for you, helpless minority? That condescension, intended or otherwise, contributes to the problem.

At least the mask finally comes off now.

So now not only is it BLMs fault, but now it's also hip-hop's fault that black Americans aren't making progress in this country.

Ignoring the social construct in our nation is adding to the problem as well.

Let's not forget the deep state fake republicans that came out and said there was plenty wrong but they weren't going to vote to impeach because there is an election coming.

J/C

You and Pit are both lost on your own crusade. Making new rules on its own won't change things. I'm not saying don't change the rules. I'm saying we need to figure out why the rules weren't being followed before, or the new ones are likely to be ignored by certain individuals as well. It's not even that straightforward as following the rules, it's what factors contribute to People being so scared/whatever overpowering emotion that they don't consciously think about the rules.

Look at all the emotions that get carried away here on a messageboard! Now imagine the People in here being thrown into potentially life or death, high stress situations in real life.

I think the way the cop/minority relationship is frequently presented contributes to the stress of interactions. Emotions getting carried away lead to irrational actions on both sides.

Yeah, a Republican prosecutor appointed by a Trump appointed Deputy Attorney General. And they think people still believe their propaganda?

Consequences were rarely paid for breaking the riles. Qualified immunity prevented anyone from being held accountable as well.

I mean you're a cop right? So how do you think society would look if people didn't get tried for crimes? How about if nobody could be sued for their deeds?

I mean if we're looking for "why the rules weren't being followed before".

So yes, the possibility of going to prison makes it much more likely people will follow the rules.

You *seem* to be ignoring WP which is fact and statistics based.

And you *seem* to be answering questions or comments only with questions that seem aimed at undermining the factual based issues that need to be addressed.

What is it that you believe needs to be done?

What is it that you believe needs to change?

Maybe start there instead of insisting everyone else has it wrong? Just a suggestion - because as I pointed out and as you chose not to answer - everything you write *seems* to be deflection rather than looking to find answers. . . . We *seem* to agree that in order to find the right solutions that will actually produce good/better solutions we need to examine and ask questions.... but when we highlight that the Police aren't already treating everyone the same and there is a problem that needs fixing you are going to a circular route of not wanting to accept that the police are not treating and protecting everyone equally.

Here's a simple enough question for you: was the police shooting of the man at Wendy's in Atlanta a justifiable shooting and taking of life? Yes or No?

So you're saying music glorifying violence is a good thing?

I never placed "fault", but again you decide to make your own "facts."

Your expectation of finding offense instead of stopping to think about what I'm actually saying is exactly the sort of problem I've been talking about.

As per my post that Bull didn't respond to - it's not the prosecuting of the officers, it's the lack of conviction. They are heavily protected.

Well we can't address that problem because it's not actually the problem. Haven't you heard?

Fact check

That is false.

"Impeachment is a formal charge of wrongdoing, not a conviction of that wrongdoing"

j/c...

I apologize for actually taking the time to read and digest posts and think about the issues instead of immediately launching into arguments completely unrelated to what was written.

If you want me to repeat everything you say that I agree with, I suppose I could waste everyone's time doing that.

Yay, change the rules! Attaboy! Job well done!

My whole point has been that we need to do more. Change the rules and... more. To me, it makes sense to focus more attention on what else could/should be done than what already is being done. No where have I said that it shouldn't be being done. I question whether it is enough. You say that it isn't enough, but then complain when I ponder what else could be done.

So much wasted energy creating arguments instead of looking for answers. I don't get what that approach thinks it is going to accomplish. The only thing it is doing is making people that want to help wonder if it isn't worth the heartache.

Then why don't you take the time to lay out your proposals? I actually addressed some of your points in my latest post and all I got for my efforts was crickets.

You've addressed nothing. You're pounding on the same stuff I've never been arguing.

I have not laid out a proposal because I'm still in the fact finding stage and no one seems to want to provide any relevant input.

You keep stating the obvious and trying to twist it into my not agreeing.

Have fun. You "win," the thread is yours.

Honestly...

I don't think I know what 'impeached' means anymore.

I most certainly did address this.



But you do you...