DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Its BQ Time ......

Exactly. Right now, if Quinn is ready and on the bench, we're doing him a disservice by continuing to play Anderson. Anderson doesn't need any more starts to "get better" - he's the exact same QB he was in college after three off-seasons and a handful of starts. We know what we're getting with him.

Quinn, at some point, is going to need real game experience to work the kinks out and get adjusted to real games in the NFL. If we play him this week, he gets to start things off in front of our rabid fanbase against a team that's injured/demoralized/flustered. The Dolphins are as good of a matchup as we'll get for weeks. Then, Quinn gets a bye week to review his performance, followed up by another cupcake in Week 8.

Or... we can ride out DA the whole year, watch him finish with as many INTs as TDs and take us to a moderately respectable record. Then, like FloridaFan said, we can start Quinn when defenses are fresh and watch him get it handed to him to start next year while he gets adjusted.

The time is ripe. If DA were playing lights out, I can understand pressure to keep him. However, a QB rating of 80.0 and horrendous completion percentage, especially one padded by one huge game, is hardly enough to keep my future on the bench. Heck, I think DA has played worse than his QB rating shows in the majority of our games, as defenses have simply failed to capitalize. Where Brady lacks in downfield throwing prowess compared to DA, he makes up for in intelligence and good decision making.

Personally, I think it's a wash to start either QB. So who do you give experience against easy defenses then... the future backup (while stunting the growth of the future starter) or the future starter (while stunting the growth of the future backup)? The choice is easy IMO.

Here's my take. I posted this in the DA thread in the gameday forum, but here seems equally appropriate, im literally pasting it, it says all the same things.

I've said it a little bit, but it never seems to be reacted to. Derek has started 7 games in the Pros, only 4 of which has he had a chance to succeed. The guy will make a few mistakes, but what youngster doesnt? I mean look at Romo last night. Sure he turned the ball over 6 times, BUT, he had his team in position to succeed last night. Derek has every opportunity to do the exact same thing everytime he steps on the field too.

Ok, he threw a few bad balls against NE and yea they hurt us, and very well may have taken us out of the game early, but if you look at the totals, he still threw 2 TDs, and almost 300 yards. the 3 INTs are very much a product of NE's D being very good. They are also a product of some suspect decisions by Derek, but oh well.

This kid is in his 3rd year in the league (right?) and for some reason, because he makes some bad throws due to inexperience, and what appears to be an inflated view of his abilities, we say he'll never be more than a mediocre player. whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?!?!

Did people say that about Eli in his 2nd year in the league? no. Did they say it about Favre when he threw almost as many INTs as TDs in some of his early years? no. Did people complain about Jason Campbell when he started and played mediocre at best? maybe, but no one wrote him off as a terrible QB.

The point I'm making, is that it appears that we're holding Anderson to the same standard as an 8 year veteran. He's still a kid, he's still adjusting to the speed of the game (Adalius's tipped ball turned int is a perfect case) He has a chance to become a great QB. Personally if we played against him, I'd be frightened.

Remember this is the same guy that shredded a bad Cincy defense, and before you jump on that statement. Good players are supposed to be able to do well against bad teams, and he did just that.

My only knock against him is that he hasnt been able to string two good ones together. But, its not that we have as a team either. So, I'm not worried.

I'm gonna say it. Derek should start the rest of this year. He gives us every chance to win a game at any time. Sure he makes boneheaded plays, but who doesnt?

If we start Quinn, he's going to make mistakes. And they'll be different ones from DA, so it'll bring about a whole new group of problems and criticisms, and issues. Right now with DA at the helm, we have someone who's been here and has faced adversity this season, and he's still standing, and throwing. Right now, this kid is a good QB.

I could list up to 17 teams maybe that if I was coaching that I'd take DA over right now

the whole AFC West (Rivers, Cutler, Culpepper, Huard)
The Ravens (McRib)
Dolphins (Cleo "The" Lemon)
Jets (Chad)
Bills (Trent or JP)
Jax (Garrard isnt that good)
Redskins (this is a bit of a maybe, Campbell has been pretty good this year)
Eagles (McScabb has been baaaaaaaad)
Chicago (Greaseeeeee, Rex)
Detroit (I know i know, kitna has been good...BUT, he's aging, and i think DA can do that)
Minnesota (Kelly and Tarvaris are bad)
Carolina (If delhomme wasnt done for the year, id say no, but he's better than Carr and whoever else that UDFA Rookie they got)
NO (Brees has been baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad)
TB (also a maybe, Garcia has been good, and its hard to compare styles, but DA is a better thrower)
ATL (Harrington and Leftwich arent good)
AZ (Warner and Leinart arent good)
STL (Frerotte is not good, i dunno whats wrong with Bulger either)
SF (Smith and Dilfer arent good, Smith has regressed this year)


thats 21 teams I'd pick DA over their current QB with 4 that I'll call toss ups (Campbell, Kitna, Delhomme, and Garrard)

For a guy whose made 7 starts, this kid is a lot better than we've been giving him credit for. He should start until he stops getting the job done, OR until we get a lucrative offer for him.

The best part, is that he's young, with plenty of upside because he throws the ball far, and throws the deep ball relatively well IMO. He gets it out quick, and strong.

He's kinda inaccurate and lacks touch, but theyve said that about Favre before too, and Dilfer, and theyre still playing.

Get off of DA, Brady may be good, but with the way DA is playing. This isnt the year for him to cut his teeth. Yet.

We still have a very good chance at 9 wins. We have a tough stretch with Seattle, @Pitt, and @Baltimore. If we can get through that with 1 W, and the wheels dont fall off, we could win 10. Look at the schedule. Only the Steelers, Ravens, and Seahawks have winning records left on our schedule.

If DA can string a few good games together, we're in. Let him do his thing this year.

'The Mighty'

playoffs???!!!!!

alert jim mora. <-----geez i love that thing

seriously, though, if crennel thinks he is going to win the super bowl with anderson he is wrong. and that is the only reason to play in the postseason, to win a superbowl.

anderson has done what we asked him to do. and we won some games with him in there. that sure doesn't make him better than what he is. i can't envision a better scenario for quinn to start than this week at home, healthy line, crappy opposing run defense, and a week off afterwards for review.

who's to say our line is still intact in 3 weeks or whatever when we are in our "playoffs???!!!!" run and anderson gets the wind knocked out of him or plays like romo did in the first half last night. just sayin', the timing looks pretty good now.

all this playoff talk is a bit premature. i don't know where the cart is, it's so far ahead. let's win the majority of our division games. then let's look for a good home record. maybe find a way to achieve at least a mediocre run defense. i really think we have to beat the steelers in order to take ourselves seriously as a contender.

JMHO

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My only knock against him is that he hasnt been able to string two good ones together.

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....you mean he hasn't been able to string two "UPSETS" together.

wow.

steve, you must really really like DA a lot.

you like him better than mcnabb??? really???

if there was a GM in the league who liked him that much im pretty sure savage would have his #1 pick back for next year by now.

im sure you didn't mean to sound this way, but you reminded me a little of dierdorf talking about tom brady for a bit there. im sure you don't really expect him to be as good as brett favre.

anderson has a good arm and gets rid of the ball quickly. thats about all i can say about the man and still remain positive.
JMHO

OK I have not read all the posts in this thread, and I have been VERY quiet in the Pure football section since the season started, HOWEVER I still think it's in the best interest of the Browns and BQ, if his ass stays on the bench until 2008.

I'm speaking of terms of the way theyre playing at this point.

Kitna has been good, but he's old. I mean, lets put it this way. If DA was playing in Detroit, would they be worse?

Would Philly be worse with DA right now? Thats kinda the way I was looking at it.

would the Bucs be worse with DA? Just because I see DA hitting Galloway on so many deep balls. Thats one I was on the fence about anyway.

My statements on those, I guess shouldnt be that I'd take him over all of the QBs, its just more that I dont think he'd make them worse.

I just want to make a point, that DA is better than we're giving him credit for. and a rating of 80, thats tainted by the 3 ints last week.


But with the bit about stringing two good games together. I wouldnt be completely concerned about the W. I mean, he played well against Cincy and he chumped himself against Oaktown. Then he showed up in Baltimore, and was very very up and down against NE. I'd just like to see him be a little more consistent, with overall games. I know he's streaky, but, I think its that way with a lot of QBs.

I guess I'd rather him start strong more often, like in Baltimore. He can do it though, he has done it, and will in the future prolly. but id like to see him do it more than once in a row

I thought the whole point of taking Quinn and giving up next years first pick and a second pick was so he would be a year ahead of a QB drafted next year.

How will he have the years experience if we don't put him in games?

Toad I'm gonna disagree with you on Rivers. He's played very poorly this year. I've seen highlights of about 5 throws that he's thrown at LT that has hit LT because he's not looking.

With Anderson, on those points of the turnovers. 11 TDs and 9 TOs. For a guy whos started so few games, thats not awful.

On that throw into the endzone. Agreed, terrible DA decision. Now, the reason I'm saying oh well to that is, lets see what happens next time theres a situation like that. If he throws it away next time, and the time after. Then it's oh well, because he learned from it, and its actually a benefit, but that remains to be seen.

I will say the upside on DA isnt the best because of his decision making, but, theres nothing to say he cant improve. I understand that right now, he's not the smartest, but his improvement to this point gives me a lot of hope for improvement.

And really, I think he just needs to improve enough to make other teams think he'll improve even more if we want to bait him and trade him.

If he started against us you dont think he could torch us? With time DA can light up a D, see Cincy. We give plenty of time to QBs, I'd be worried about him lighting us up in a different uniform.

I just dont think its BQ time yet. And its not a knock against BQ, he could come in and make us better, but I dunno for sure.

I guess the only way to find out is to try it out, but I'm not worried about us with DA starting. It's not so much as I really like DA, I just dont see a reason for us to play anyone else yet.

I dunno, I just feel that I dont see Quinn making an impact that would be enough of a put us over-the-top move

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If he's more NFL ready than any other QB coming out this year(which I think he is).....by the time he gets through T/C , pre-season,and the first 1/2 of the season,...you'll probably be looking at an almost finished product.

.....If not,....we've all been had.

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Not even close. If you think the BQ that is likely to play out the second half of this season is going to be the same BQ that plays in 08, 09 and beyond, then you are either setting yourself up for a letdown because you expect to much too quick... or you are setting yourself up to be pleased in the coming years... because regardless of how good he starts, he's going to get better.. a lot better.

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And really, I think he just needs to improve enough to make other teams think he'll improve even more if we want to bait him and trade him.

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Trade deadline is this week is it not? He's a free agent after 2007. Since he's been in for 3 years, does that mean he's restricted or unrestricted? Restricted would be nice ... Slap the second round tender on him, see if anyone bites.

Toad...

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Besides, if Quinn craps out, we'll need a "veteran" QB to run the team. I doubt we're the least bit interested in dumping a guy that has a good working relationship with the current players and coaching staff.

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If that is indeed our thought on Anderson...Then I think that we have to play Quinn. If we're going to keep Anderson as a backup, we may as well do that right away. I'd let him play this week. but I think if we're down because of Anderson's play, or up without Anderson playing amazing. Then give Quinn the 2nd half, and give him the job.

If we want to keep Anderson as a backup, make him a backup now.


If we play Quinn this week it'll give him extra time to think about this week's performance.

I dunno. I will say I'm glad I dont have to make this decision. I just think Anderson has a lot of upside and we should showcase it, and get some value for him. but if he's a backup and nothing more, then put him there asap.

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Can I ask a really stupid question?

Never stopped U before

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You are correct,,, makes you wonder why I would ask if I can ask a stupid question doesn't it ....Just making sure it still ok

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Does any of this bantering back and forth really matter..


Does it really bother U ?

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No,, not at all,, just wondering the value

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Does it really matter all that much if it's this coming week or after the Bye or during the 10th game of the season?

That's a better question than those "feel good questions" U ask as of late
it matters in terms of how much game experience they want him to get this season alone.

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Exactly which feel good questions are you referring too there ole buddy

What if they don't want him to get any this year? Does that necessarly make RAC and Savage stupid all of a sudden?

There is precedent for both lines of thought.. Keep him off the field and let him absorb... Precedent, Carson Palmer. Put him out there sometime in the middle of his first season,,, Precedent, Dan Marino, Bernie Kosar.

Personally, I don't want to wait until next year. I'm like a kid buying his first car.. I want to drive it RIGHT NOW! That's thinking with my heart however..

A likely story.

I think BQ makes the good plays that DA makes, and, he makes many of the plays that DA leaves on the field.

When I see DA start out every game with inaccurate throws in the short to intermediate range I cringe. BQ is deadly accurate on those throws.

Plus, DA's going to get someone killed by leading them directly into defenders.

Somehow I just don't see BQ's rookie mistakes being as bad as DA's rookie/mental mistakes.

Like you, I'll defer to whatever RAC decides. I know he likes experience. But as you said about DA being DA, if we see it, they see it too.

It's just a matter of time. Sooner rather than later would be good for me.

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I think BQ makes the good plays that DA makes, and, he makes many of the plays that DA leaves on the field.

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And there it is... you should put that in a fortune cookie, that's exactly how I feel.

totally agree here.

im not worried about quinn losing a couple games. anderson already has.

I wouldn't even say Anderson has lost games...we lost....he just didn't help matters.

We are talking about a back-up qb here....too many people expect to see Peyton Manning out there.

Think Mike Pagel when you talk about DA.

It really is that simple.

Only football people tend to make the simple complicated.

I just think that the bye week is the right time to give him the helm. The Rams (long removed from the days of the Fearsome Foursome) would be a good choice to start his era against.

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Think Mike Pagel when you talk about DA.

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I don't know why people on here want to put Mike down. He was actually a decent starter in this league. Not to mention agreat guy to work with.

We are not the 99 Browns.
The kid is ready
Time to put him in.

j/c

Another thing not mentioned a whole lot around here lately is that BQ supposedly was more "pro ready" to step into the NFL because of his time at ND, compared to other rookie quarterbacks.

I posted this in another forum but I thought I'd put it here as well... some very telling statistics about DA other than the completion % and INT totals that keep getting tossed around (which are awful in their own right).

DA's early game "prowess"

DA in the 1st quarter - 15 of 30 (50%), 267 yards, 2 TD 3 INT, 63.5 QB Rating
DA in the 2nd quarter - 18 of 40, (45%), 209 yards, 3 TD 3 INT, 55.1 QB Rating
DA's first 10 throws each game - 20 of 50 (40%), 310 yards, 2 TDs, 5 INTs, 35.0 QB Rating

DA's ability to dig us out of holes (self-made or otherwise)

DA playing from behind - 61 of 124 (49.2%), 840 yards, 7 TDs, 6 INTs, 70.0 QB Rating

Some DA short field numbers

DA on passes thrown behind the line - 10 of 18, (55.6%)
DA on passes thrown 1-10 yards - 36 of 72 (50%), 339 yards, 3 TDs, 5 INTs, 48.3 QB Rating

Hopefully this illustrates just how much DA relies on garbage time stats and huge bombs to make himself look like a legitimate quarterback when the ratings and stats hit the paper. I just don't see how we get anywhere with a QB that can't throw short, digs tremendous holes by playing horrendous to begin games and doesn't perform well when trailing. While I don't know if Quinn can pull off these categories like a proven NFL starter, I'm willing to bet he can give it a better go than DA can. There is no reason whatsoever to stunt Brady's growth for this guy. Period.