DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus The remarkable collapse of Donald Trump's polling numbers

How? Trump can’t speak in complete sentences, either.

I thought it was the state governor's opening things up?

Darwin always wins....

What about the Democratic party, bone? Do you think that blacks should be given a bond at birth to help ease the disparity in wealth distribution? Do you think that hard-working folks should have to pay more in taxes to support those that do not work? Do you not believe that even more babies will be born out of wedlock to take advantage of such a law? Do you think it is wrong for the working class to support equal opportunities for hiring minorities while not agreeing to just handing things out for doing nothing?

Like you said............I wish people would take more time to become informed.

My father's Democratic party supported the working man. This current group of Dems is not my father's party. They support those who don't work. Free this. Free that. Give them this. Give them that.

And, after all is said and done.........who the f... pays for it?

On the other hand - Why do you want to continue a system that forces Blacks and other minorities to have to work harder or achieve better grades than their white counter parts to achieve the same level of success in life? Because that is statistically what we have now. When you talk about people educating themselves - what is your knowledge and solution to this issue?

I am not in favor of free anything "just because" - but there are people in need in this country and the system is stacked against a segment of the community. I don't want to give money to illegals - if they are here illegally, they have no status in my opinion. I have no problem tying welfare to enforcing efforts to self improvement, and I'd even be okay with some form of drug testing. . . . but the number of cheaters and scammers who actually just want the free stuff is a small small % ... most want to get on and improve their lives and have a future that is brighter and more prosperous for their kids than it was for them.

It never ceases to amaze me when I talk about welfare to folks who are fixated on people getting "free stuff" .... I always ask them "if you could be poor for life but get free stuff and never have to work, while living in poverty ... would you take that?" And everyone says no, they want to work and improve their lot ..... and somehow they can't see that the overwhelming majority are just the same. It's like folks want to create laws and a welfare program out of fear of how the (very small %) worst element in society *might* abuse the system....

I think you are misunderstanding my position. I also think you might be misinformed about one thing. Not saying that in a mean or confrontational way. I also think we probably agree more than you know on much of this.

Let me know if you want to have an honest conversation. I don't want to type all of that out if it only going to draw a hostile or "gotcha" response no matter what I say. I think you might be sincere on this particular issue and that is why I am willing to actually have a "conversation" on it w/you. Btw.............not sure I have a real solution. I have some ideas, but I'm not that smart. I want to put that out there up front.

Yeah, I am not happy w/either. I despise Trump, but I don't like how the Dems have not only abandoned the working man, they are asking us to pay more for those who don't work.

It freaking sucks!

Vers, we could have the same discussion about how the Republican Party is not the same as the past. Times change, and the parties morph. If you take a look at how this country addresses corporate taxes and tariffs, we have twisted ourselves into a knot.

What I believe is the real underlying problem is that the political parties have become too ideological for their own good. We could use a healthy dose of pragmatism to address the problems that confront us, but the parties are too interested in playing the ideological card than figuring out what will work for most of us.

Well it really all depends on you - if you want to attack me personally and for no good reason and call me a liar, we'll probably not do well. If you want to antagonize me and and ask about my feelings affecting my judgement like the recent Baker post, it'll probably not go well. If you get overly upset with me if I disagree with you, likewise.

My comment about Blacks having to do more to achieve the same as Whites is based on statistical evidence and is the essence of White Privilege. I've made a couple of posts about that recently and despite the name - it doesn't mean that Whites are born with a silver spoon in their mouths or that they don't work damn hard to achieve success.... it means Blacks have to work harder to achieve the same success. Or if you want to look at the other end of the spectrum it means criminals and delinquents with the same history/rap sheet and charged with the same crime ... Blacks are incarcerated longer.

You've clearly had personal and intimate knowledge of helping and supporting minorities - and I am sure many of those examples had you interacting with parents who didn't care. were ignorant or racist themselves, didn't want to help their kids or whatever ... I have several teacher friends who have worked inner city schools in bad neighborhoods and have horror stories. And each example is real and not easily dismissed. I still believe those represent the worst and a small section of society. Personally I believe that if you take a slice through any social/economic/ethnic group - you will roughly get the same number (%) of jackwads, scammers, douche bags ... and ironically the corporate dudes that steal Billions ... from Enron or Madhoff's of the world cost us as citizens, tax payers, consumers ... just as much as the scammers and the welfare abusers. But they don't get nearly the same amount of attention.

Anywho .... feel free to share and offer alternate perspective.

That's the way I feel about that (delete) Obama, I just cringe when I hear that voice or see his or his wife's mug in the news.

I agree w/you, Charger. I have always been against the Republican party, thus I don't talk as much about them. I have dismissed them for decades. I only talk about things I believe in and how they can maybe improve.

That is your takeaway from this?

fish, I have always liked you. But, why do you hate Obama and his wife? They are very good people. Examples of how education, work ethic, and drive can lead to great things no matter what your skin color is. I love the Obamas and I wish I could have the opportunity to vote for him yet again.

Vers, I'd like to know why you don't like republicans.

No that wasn't my take away ... not from that post, but from other posts. I think you know that.

The part you cut from my post was the response to your actual post. If you want to discuss and offer a perspective, then do so. I agree that we have a lot of cross over politically, even to the point of how responding to Trump in a Trump like way is detrimental to winning hearts and minds.

I did not say that I don't like Republicans. My brother is a Republican and I love him.

I meant to say I don't like their policies. I hated how they used the word "liberal" as an insult. Last time I checked the dictionary, I thought the definition of liberal was positive.

I have also disliked their treatment and exploitation of minorities and other groups that were not in the majority.

I have not liked how they have hurt the working man and favored big business.

Their spokespeople, such as Rush Limbaugh, absolutely disgust me. They preach hate and bias.

Addend: What really bothers me is that my party has adopted the very same techniques of the other party that I despised. Thus, I am a man w/out a party. I wonder how many more American citizens have similar feelings? I bet it is a lot more than either side would be willing to admit.

Oh yes, because trump is such a great orator. I take care of dementia clients with stronger verbal skills than this word salad blathering...

Maybe you should become a Libertarian.

I've been told by friends that I am more closely aligned to Libertarian views than not - but then those same friends who say they are Libertarian find ways to back door into supporting Trump and it's discouraging to say the least.

Libertarians can lean left or right. No reason you cant be a left leaning libertarian.

Okay, I will try and respond.



I am going to have to divide this question into two parts.

First, I want to discontinue the practice that makes it harder for blacks and other minorities to find jobs. In another thread, I talked about my dental hygienist who was black. She told me how hard it was to find a job and some of the crap she had to go through to even get through the courses. That is terrible.

I am of the mind that we need to treat all people the same. Minorities should never be discriminated against in any setting. However, we are talking about employment right now and I find it despicable that minorities still face discrimination. My goal is to get as many people working as possible. Let's promote equality in hiring practices.

I know this one won't go over well, but the education thing is way off. I have remained mostly silent on the subject because I don't want to further the divide. I shared two stories and they were not well received. But, believe me, the narrative on education that is being championed is far, far from the truth.

Most of the money is going to towards the minority communities. They have the newer schools. They have more technology. They have a lot more opportunities. In fact, we had to let blacks into the gifted programs to meet a requirement instead of just going by pure test scores.

I worked at a school here in SC that received a ton of aide. Most of the money was spent irresponsibly. But, we got a ton of it. The message was this from the black leader. And I want you all to look at this for what it is...

They said: "Equality is not enough." Someone raised their hand and asked: "What is wrong w/treating all of our students equally?" The answer was long-winded, but the message was: Equality is not enough. We need to make things 'equitable' by whatever means necessary." Thus, we were being told to put minorities in gifted programs even if they did not qualify. We were told that we had to give them certain grades even if they did not earn them. We were told that we not permitted to discipline black males because they made up such a high percentage of discipline cases. That went over well considering what we dealt w/day-in and day-out.

Most black folks I know are great people. They work hard. They just want to be treated fairly. Others, just like their white counterparts, want to exploit the system and take advantage of things for their own selfish reasons. That is why I say we have to judge individuals as individuals and not assign broad labels.

I want to add this before my final point. Folks like Rocket, Pitt, and Swish mock me when I say I have done more for minorities than others on this board.........but, several years ago when I was trying to start an organization in my local community that would support minorities, not one of them even bothered to ask how they could contribute. The only person that I recall showing interest in the endeavor was DC. Talk is cheap! And btw......my community failed me and the minorities I was trying to help. They talk, but when it comes to money........they slide back into the shadows. Phony.

Here is the thing in my mind. We should do everything we can to encourage minorities and other poor folks to work hard. Give them jobs when they are qualified. Provide scholarships when they are worthy. Reward them when they work hard. Do not reward them for doing nothing and being unproductive. Doing so will only further the problem.

Hey Sister Eve..............I am not up on all the labels. What is a "Libertarian" exactly?

You can google the Libertarian Party. I am one of those.
Basic rundown is we want the Government to be hands off. Socially progressive and fiscally conservative.

Can lean left or right because there are aspects of both.

Thanks. I like the sound of that.

j/c...

Well, based on the polling in 2016, that's looking good for Trump.

Maybe. Maybe not. We'll know in November!

Exactly.

Over the last couple decades on these boards, most know I do not like the two main parties in this country. They have become caricatures of themselves and have ceased to lead in any positive way, and it continues to get much worse. I have leaned Libertarian for many years, though they are not a party who can get their crap together and some of the principals can never apply to a country this large in a global economy and in the current reality. They are splitting and fighting as badly as the other parties.

It’s unfortunate that a third party with real leadership and innovative ideas cannot get together and form a real threat against the prevailing nonsense. The cards are stacked against them in the current political climate as the powers that be squelch any third party threat. But, the time is a ripe for a real revolution. This is the time for any party truly of the people to emerge.

It obviously won't be this election at the Presidential level, but could not agree more.

I'm really curious to see if young republicans and young democrats start to pull away and distance themselves (possibly forming a third party, not together) from the status quo.

Recently, establishment types have lost in their primaries.

Jamaal Bowman ousting Eliot Engel.

Amy McGrath vs Charles Booker is an interesting race

Madison Cawthorn defeating the Trump/Meadows endorsed Lynda Bennett

Cameron Webb winning his primary in VA

Long Island has some key races.

Both parties need to seriously reconsider their long term vision or they both may be obsolete in the not too distant future.

I will take a swing at this as well. I never liked how they treated social issues involving equality. It was always confusing how they could be the party of individual freedom, yet wanted to restrict a woman’s right to choose, or remained silent on racial or sexual issues.

I also found Republicans to be only cognizant of fiscal responsibility when Dems were in office (GWB Sr. Excluded)

I voted for Arnold twice, and would do so again.

That’s what they said when he disparaged and mocked a handicapped reporter and a gold star parent of a fallen American soldier. He’ll find a way to cheat. But as it stands right now all he can do is say Biden is worse than him.

It shouldn’t be very hard to figure out if you have half a brain.