DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Black/White Part II

That was my first thought when I saw the video. Impressive!

I really dislike how you twist my words around and argue about something I am not even saying. I have never once said that we shouldn't show the wrongs being committed. In fact, I said we did need to show them. I have come to the conclusion that you are more interested in winning arguments and force-feeding your opinions on other than having a discussion.

I have asked you several times to please stop misrepresenting my words. You have refused to do so. You obviously don't value our friendship and that is fine. However, I am not going to be a friend to someone that actually tries to paint me in a negative light by purposely twisting my words around. I do wish you the best of health.

Bring attention to police brutality? I'm confused as to why you didn't title the thread "Police Brutality" and instead chose the title Black/White Part II.

I think the issues for blacks and whites go far beyond police brutality. Why are we not bringing attention to other aspects of the daily lives of blacks and whites?

Why not talk of gang violence? Domestic abuse? Crime? Black on black crime? Hiring practices? Percentage of folks on welfare? Children born out of wedlock?


Apparently, none of these are important when discussing Blacks/Whites. Just police brutality. GMAFB!

I have abstained from showing videos like this, but due to recent misrepresentations of my messages and the call by those that say we need to bring attention to injustices, I am going to post this video. There are a thousand more. I don't want to get into this tit for tat thing, but if you wanna dance, we'll dance. I hope y'all back off and try and at least understand what I was initially talking about. Hammering home just one side of the picture is not very productive. Of course, we want to point out problems. But, being one-sided about it is NOT productive.



Is this a problem? Should it be pointed out? Should we do something about it?

Again, I have not showed videos like this one because I thought it would further the divide, but if you guys wanna punch me in the mouth, don't be surprised if I hit back.

People don't want to talk about that because it can be self incriminating. It's easier to blame the police.

You really didn’t pay attention to our three members who provided great insight into the topic of gangs, did you?

Friends aren't required to lick each others boots. So you do with that what you wish.

In case you've missed it, America has enough trouble focusing on one thing at a time. I can go back to Rodney King and even before, because Rodney King just so happened to be filmed. It wasn't the beginning of the problem. There have been documented cases of police brutality going on in this country for generations. Did you ever stop to think it may be a symptom of some of the very problems you brought up to begin with?

So yes, I think when you widen the conversation it takes away the focus of the topic at hand.

Now you wish to take things as "I twist your words" when I'm only showing what my interpretation of your words appear to be from my perspective.

So you go ahead and play the victim card here and twist what I'm doing since it seems to make you feel so good.

Topic at hand? The thread is entitled Black/White Part II. GM made the first thread and it was in the EE forum. The topic got so far out of hand that the refs moved it to this forum.

You can think what you want about what we need to discuss, but I don't see it that way. I think looking at the big picture is more valuable than focusing on one aspect of the issue.

I also think that police brutality is pretty far down the list when it comes to identifying the problems of many black communities. Focusing on persecuting cops is just a defective device while ignoring much larger issues.

Well of course you do. That's why you keep trying to deflect the thread away from it.

You do realize I'm more concerned about the people who actually have to live under those conditions than an older white mans opinion of it don't you?

Maybe if you had to sit and wonder if your child was going to make it home safe if they get pulled over by the cops year after year you may feel differently.

Aren’t Vers children of mixed race? Aren’t Hispanics also subjected to profiling as well?

Just stop it.

Stop what? It’s a legitimate question. Granted Hispanics aren’t profiled as much in most places it is a concern for many.

I didn't pay attention because I didn't read their comments.

To me, there isn't much to be learned in the political forum.

Everybodys mind is made up. I look in once in a while, see a comment that evokes a reply, then leave. I know I am not going to change your opinion, nor you change mine.

Politics has become too divided to carry on a thoughtful conversation any longer. It's all about winning and retaining or gaining power. No longer is it about making the country better.

JMO

Let me know when Vers has to give them "the talk".

So says the older white man.

j/c...

How Trump and the Black Lives Matter Movement Changed White Voters’ Minds
A majority of American voters support demonstrations on police brutality, and many see the president as ill-equipped on racial justice.

By Astead W. Herndon and Dionne Searcey

June 27, 2020
Updated 11:14 a.m. ET

A majority of American voters support the demonstrations against police brutality and racial injustice that have roiled the country over the past month, embracing ideas about bias within the criminal justice system and the persistence of systemic racism that are central tenets of the Black Lives Matter movement, according to a new national poll of registered voters by The New York Times and Siena College.

Fifty-nine percent of voters, including 52 percent of white voters, believe the death of George Floyd at the hands of the police in Minneapolis was “part of a broader pattern of excessive police violence toward African Americans,” the poll found. The Black Lives Matter movement and the police had similar favorability ratings, with 44 percent of registered voters viewing the movement as “very favorable,” almost identical to the 43 percent rating for the police.

The numbers add to the mounting evidence that recent protests have significantly shifted public opinion on race, creating potential political allies for a movement that was, within the past decade, dismissed as fringe and divisive. It also highlights how President Trump is increasingly out of touch with a country he is seeking to lead for a second term: While he has shown little sympathy for the protesters and their fight for racial justice, and has continued to use racist language that many have denounced, voters feel favorably toward the protests and their cause.

A survey of battleground states critical to November’s election largely mirrored the national results. Fifty-four percent of voters in those states said the way the criminal justice system treats black Americans was a bigger problem than the incidents of rioting seen during some demonstrations. Just 37 percent said rioting was a bigger problem, though Mr. Trump and his allies have tried to discredit the protests by focusing on some isolated incidents of violence.

It has not worked.

“I probably didn’t understand what bringing people together meant until Trump started talking the way he does,” said Rita Hopkins, 55, from rural Clark County, Mo., in the northeastern part of the state. “Now I see what a president says can divide people.”

Ms. Hopkins, a white registered Democrat who describes herself as a centrist, said she was particularly galled by Mr. Trump’s comments at one point during protests over Mr. Floyd’s death that the Secret Service had been prepared to sic the “most vicious dogs” on protesters outside the White House gates.

The words immediately brought to mind photos of the Alabama police aiming snarling dogs at peaceful black protesters.

“I hate to say it, but I had forgotten about those pictures I had seen,” said Ms. Hopkins, who lives in an overwhelmingly Republican county. “I kind of thought we had gotten past that.”

The attitudes cut across race, geography and educational status, and speak to a country that has been awakened through protests to complaints that black Americans have long made about police brutality and systemic racism. What began in the Democratic primary, in which white liberals showed a new openness to candidates speaking frankly about systemic injustice, has continued into the general election, with a spotlight on Mr. Trump’s response.

The coalition of people sympathetic to the protesters’ cause, including Latino voters, exposes the limits of Mr. Trump’s tendency to exclusively speak directly to his overwhelmingly white and conservative base. As with other issues, including the coronavirus pandemic, the administration’s narrow focus has been derided by experts and voters, who say the governing strategy does not reflect the country’s broader interests, or the current political realities.

“Over the past six years, so much of the work has been focused on convincing the country — and convincing policymakers and white communities that there’s an actual problem,” said Samuel Sinyangwe, an activist and co-founder of Mapping Police Violence. “Now there’s been universal condemnation of the George Floyd incident and a recognition that things needs to change.”

Aaron Perry, an alderman on the City Council of Waukesha, Wis., said he doesn’t support the looting that took place after Mr. Floyd’s death in various cities but said it occurred on a small scale relative to the peaceful protests that broke out.

Mr. Perry, a 40-year-old white man, describes himself as a centrist but was compelled to switch parties last year from Republican to Democrat because of his support for marriage equality and legalization of cannabis. He called himself a “never-Trumper” and said that in 2016, he wrote in John Kasich, then the governor of Ohio, on the presidential ballot.

The death of Mr. Floyd was an urgent message to the nation, he said, to make changes to end the kinds of police and societal behavior that led to the incident.

“This is the last time we have a chance to get this right. I’m on board with that,” Mr. Perry said, emphasizing, with an expletive, that he really didn’t care if “most of the people I represent don’t look like” Mr. Floyd, and that issues of racial justice matter for a majority-white area, too.

Darrell Keaton Sr., a 49-year-old black Democrat from Wausau, Wis., several hours north of Mr. Perry, said the protests after Mr. Floyd’s death were monumental for changing views on structural racism in America. Finally, he said, it feels like white people are listening and joining in the protests.

“We have just been racking our brains and screaming at the top of our lungs for so many years that we’re going to need other people to stand up alongside the black community to change anything,” he said.

Though the poll over all shows former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. in a very strong position, especially on racial justice, and voters’ belief in his ability to unite a divided country, it also indicates how difficult a task that could be: More than 40 percent of white respondents agreed in some measure that discrimination against whites has become as big a problem as other forms of discrimination, reinforcing a theme of white grievance politics that the president and his supporters have long expressed.

There are also broad generational gaps between how voters are responding to the national moment of unrest. Every age bracket said the use of force by the police against black Americans was a bigger problem than looting at demonstrations, however support for Black Lives Matter gets more tepid among older voters, the polls found. Sixty-seven percent of voters ages 18 to 29 viewed the Black Lives Matter movement as “very favorable” as did 54 percent of voters ages 30 to 44.

Among people 45 to 64, the support dropped to 37 percent, while 22 percent viewed the movement as “somewhat favorable.” Voters 65 and over were the least persuaded: Only 31 percent had a “very favorable” view of the Black Lives Matter movement, and 25 percent had a “somewhat favorable” opinion.

Michael Berlinger, 67, who lives in Lancaster, Pa., and considers himself an independent voter, said he thinks the Black Lives Matter movement is too myopic. The protests over Mr. Floyd’s death have been too destructive, he said.

“The whole message has been undermined in a lot of ways,” said Mr. Berlinger, a white retired teacher. “I’m not a big fan of people who break the law to say they’re working for a cause. I don’t think that’s the correct way of doing it.”

The looting and the property destruction were “a dilution of the message and the results they wanted to achieve.” Mr. Berlinger is likely to vote for Mr. Trump, he said, but he described the choices on the Republican and Democratic ballots, respectively, as one between “a lunatic and a senile senior citizen.”

“I think all lives matter,” Mr. Berlinger said. “The black and blue lives, and red, white and blue lives.”

Charles Defever, a 28-year-old Minneapolis Democrat, said he felt this was a moment to get more involved. His activism was limited to the occasional comment in support of Black Lives Matter on social media — until he saw the video of George Floyd’s arrest, he said.

“I was not very active, and my interest would fade,” said Mr. Defever, who is white and works as a produce buyer for a food wholesaler. “I would write on the Black Lives Matter page and see truth and pain and hurt in so many people I know but would not go out and protest.”

“I’ve spent a lot of time at the State Capitol listening to young black and brown youth speak about the world they want, and that’s the world I have,” he said.

Mr. Defever was a supporter of Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont but said he planned to vote for Mr. Biden because he was “better than having destructive Republican policies and leadership.”

Many activists, progressive political groups, and civil rights organizations draw a direct line to these changing attitudes and the events of the recent months. Renewed attention ignited by the death of Mr. Floyd — as well as others who died at the hands of police, including Breonna Taylor of Kentucky, Rayshard Brooks of Georgia, and Elijah McClain of Colorado — has built on other moments of awakening, like the surprise of the 2016 election of Mr. Trump, said Nell Irvin Painter, a historian and the author of “The History of White People.”

“The great stall point after the civil rights movement was white people not being able to talk to other white people about whiteness,” Ms. Painter said. “That has to happen before anything can change. Now, many white people are stepping up and saying, ‘Oh we’ve got to talk about this.’”

D’Atra Jackson, national director for Black Youth Project 100, the progressive political organization that has been on the front lines of the national protests, agreed that this is a unique political moment. However, Ms. Jackson said it is important to maintain pressure on people seeking elected office so that public sympathy can be transformed into action — getting people elected and getting legislation passed.

“It’s one thing to be hopeful and believe that new things are possible,” Ms. Jackson said. “It’s another thing to build power.”

Astead W. Herndon is a national political reporter based in New York. He was previously a Washington-based political reporter and a City Hall reporter for The Boston Globe. @AsteadWesley

Dionne Searcey is a politics reporter at The New York Times where she recently worked as the West Africa bureau chief and is author of the book, "In Pursuit of Disobedient Women."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/27/us/po...s&smtyp=cur

This one just listens.

Any questions about improving the lives of minorities in a meaningful way they don't like it because it doesn't fit their narrative.

I'm going to leave this video here because it might make Democrats and BLM Supporters head explode. The double standards are amazing. Brought to you by the man Jesse Lee Peterson himself.

Yeah, stopping police violence against minorities wouldn't be helpful at all.

Deflect, change the subject and repeat. That way nothing gets done. Seems the popular theme these days.

You live a sheltered life where the written word is all you know. Let me clue you in on something. "The talk" that you mentioned in another thread is usually about telling your child to stay away from windows and doors because you are much more fearful that a drive-by shooting will occur. You have "the talk" about not accepting drugs from certain people in the neighborhood. You have "the talk" about not joining a gang. You have "the talk" about how to avoid being shot, stabbed, beat by members of your own community. You, and the other suburbanites don't know squat about inner city life.

Anyone who has ever lived or worked in those communities knows where the real danger comes from. And they don't need soft-ass suburbanites to know who the true predators are.

You keep running your big mouth and I will share even more stories about what's real and what isn't. I tried to make this friendly. Begged you guys to stop trying to further the divide. But no, that was a bad idea. Like I said earlier, Hoss...........you wanna dance.......we'll dance.

And you think this is impressive? I guess compared to some of the other brainiacs in the trumpian political toilet, this turd somehow shines... I'm beginning to think there are no intelligent GOPers left on team Trump. All I see these days are two digit IQs.

I didn't watch it. I figured it would be bad. Just like I don't watch most of the videos because you can tell what the message is by just looking at who posts it. I just wish we could have balanced, rational conversations.

I do try and have them, but then I get angry by some of the BS and I go off. Like I just did. That makes me as bad as others.

Damn!

We should have enacted a similar post world war 2 policy on the south, like we did with Germany after ww 2.

We won the war, but we didn’t enforce the ideals of black rights, post slavery. We let the south perpetuate a culture that gave us segregation, and an under appreciation of systemic racism. This was a check, long overdue.

Catch 22. I used to try to be more level headed in talking to Trump supporters too... then I figured out we have so little in common in the way we think politically that it was impossible to have rational conversations on Trump. I hate him, they love him. I feel that almost everything he does is bad, they think it's all good. There is no middle with them, there is no middle with me. How do you overcome that?

I don't know. It just sickens me that our country is so divided. I really get the feeling that a lot of people don't want to work together and after the anger subsides, I just get depressed.

The difference is that you act deranged about it and they dont.

Yep, that's me, deranged... smh

OR that's the squawking libertarian putting her "stable" 2 cents in when nobody asked for it... Go vote for Gary Johnson or whatever loser the real libtards are putting up... OR vote for Trump because you love him and he's just like you... whatever you do will be less than "deranged" I'm sure...

Read your post and then tell me who is deranged. Like do you even read what you post? Would you say that to a person in real life?

Under Trump facts, truth, decency, and all norms have been chucked out the window. There is no starting point that doesn't require taking a side because all of the middle ground has been systematically eliminated by team divider and chief.

How is that any different than the way you talk about me? GMAB Your politics have turned your mind into swiss cheese.

Not really. I dont post like a deranged extremist. You do.

Your little pet names are old and tired, just like your politics. You call me extremist, socialist, radical, etc. AND look at you, supporting Trump. LMAO you can't get any more bizarre than that. Nothing you say means anything after that, nothing.

Says the guy who just called eve's mind "swiss cheese".

Seriously, you can't make this up.

The liberals on here, well, a few of them, seem so deranged they don't even know what they post, yet call out others.......for, get this, exactly what they themselves do.

Hilarious, the hypocrisy that is present here.

Nowhere near the same things. But I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

We have actually discussed this as an entire family move.

https://www.sothebysrealty.com/eng/sales/detail/180-l-4484-hmmwjf/motu-teta

Wanna know why? Because this country is nuts.

I wouldn't blame anyone for leaving because I think it's going to get worse. Between the pandemic, the impending depression, racial tensions, and the November election America is a powderkeg in the middle of a room full of sparks.

We have talked about it as a group. My wife and I, our son, our daughter and her fiance, and his parents. We have some land in Montana and that might have to do, but I think things are getting really crazy right now and I question how safe our cities will be moving forward.

The island thing is a dream. We could make the payment, but there is so much more to it. We would need to buy an ocean boat to reach the mainland. Have a vehicle waiting there to pick up supplies. Loss of income from the younger folks. It's not really feasible.

I was going to let this go because that while I appreciated your comment, I really don't want to make this about my family. But, a few glasses of wine have changed my mind. And no, I am not drunk. Just a bit loose-lipped.

We have faced some bias and discrimination. Many times, people don't realize the ancestry and make prejudiced comments about Mexican/Hispanics. My son will get angry and walk away. My wife and daughter will remain silent. I will either turn the tables on those talking or tell them to get the F... out. However, most of the time........we just remain silent and use it as a learning tool.

Recently, my wife was moving a large black woman from the rolling bed to the operating table and the woman became uncomfortable. She screamed at my wife how she was hurting her and to go back to her own country. My wife ignored her comments and did her best to take care of her. That's my family.

Our children, because they are considered minorities, had many grants and special privileges at their fingertips as they moved on from high school to college. As a family, we chose to not accept any of the aide due to their racial status. My daughter received scholarship money for softball and my son for academics. We had money and did not want to take money from others. That's my family.

We have taught our children to earn their own keep. To not expect any handouts. That they can achieve no matter what the obstacles are. We will not succumb to racial or gender profiling and we will never use it as an excuse for poor behavior. That's my family.

And Pit can kiss my blank if he wants to pretend that we haven't experienced bias and discrimination.

That makes you "one of them," too... to somebody.

it's just how this all works...