So are you saying we weren't in peace talks with the Taliban? Are you saying the Russians have nothing to gain by keeping the U.S bogged down in foreign wars?
You can't be serious right now can you?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So are you saying we weren't in peace talks with the Taliban? Are you saying the Russians have nothing to gain by keeping the U.S bogged down in foreign wars?
You can't be serious right now can you?
Never said anything of the sort, and I still wonder how much parsing you do of my every word to come up with such nonsense.
Yeah, some make it sound as if further sanctions and public outrage wasn't an alternative.
It was WW3 or nothing.
On the other hand, some make it sound like Putin was getting severed heads mailed to him in boxes and he was personally signing checks and delivering them to the return addresses, all of which was photographed and the evidence handed personally to Trump along with a 3 hour in depth presentation.
Once proven, public outrage is an option. Sanctions would then be an option. For now, private outrage might be more appropriate until the facts are determined. Once you jump, you can't really stop in mid air if new facts come to light.
People like to rush to judgment, though. No matter how many times it comes out that early indications were deceiving, people like to keep jumping to conclusions with only a miniscule portion of the whole picture.
Last edited by Bull_Dawg; 06/30/2003:53 PM. Reason: Lousy kindle autocorrect.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
“To date, DOD has no corroborating evidence to validate the recent allegations found in open-source reports. Regardless, we always take the safety and security of our forces in Afghanistan—and around the world—most seriously and therefore continuously adopt measures to prevent harm from potential threats,” Jonathan Hoffman, the chief Pentagon spokesman, said in a statement.
I'm just curious, since actual Data intercepts showed GRU-to-Taliban $ transfers & a key intermediary fled to Russia, how much evidence are you waiting for?
Since it has been shown that this information was contained in a White House briefing, what else do you need to form a conclusion?
I mean if you are waiting to see film of a Russian diplomat handing a Taliban leader some cash that's not going to happen.
Now if your question is in regards to Trump actually reading his daily briefings because he simply doesn't care what the hell is really going on, we may be in agreement.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Russians squeeze U.S. troops in Syria amid uproar over Trump’s dealings with Moscow
The dispute over intelligence about bounty payments in Afghanistan is exposing a deep rift in the government over how to handle Russia.
By LARA SELIGMAN and BETSY WOODRUFF SWAN 06/30/2020 02:00 PM EDT
Russian forces are encroaching on U.S. troop-controlled territory in eastern Syria — part of what officials say is a deliberate campaign to squeeze the U.S. military out of the region, according to two current U.S. officials and one former U.S. official.
The growing friction between U.S. and Russian troops in Syria comes against a backdrop of deepening mistrust between the national security community and President Donald Trump’s White House over dealings with Moscow. The tension burst into the open last week with revelations that Russia’s secretive military intelligence service offered bounties to the Taliban for killing U.S. and coalition troops in Afghanistan. Lawmakers demanded answers this week amid bipartisan anger that the Trump administration has known about the bounties for months but has not yet authorized a response to Russia.
Trump has denied being briefed on the bounties, but a Western defense official confirmed the arrangement to POLITICO. Other administration officials have said the intelligence is still being evaluated and have criticized the media for reporting on the issue.
The disclosure of the bounty program has highlighted emerging frictions between the U.S. and Russia in other areas, including in Syria.
For years, the two countries have at times supported opposing sides in the long-running civil war — with Moscow propping up Syrian President Bashar al Assad and Washington eventually supporting Kurdish fighters who have pushed for de facto autonomy from the regime. Yet over the course of the war, the U.S. and Russian militaries have communicated regularly in order to deconflict their respective forces on the crowded Syrian battle space. In the first years of the Trump administration, the White House even pushed the Pentagon to increase cooperation with the Russian military in Syria, three former Trump administration officials said.
The directive was disturbing to some members of the national security community, given that Russia has committed war crimes against civilians in Syria.
“They told us we needed to work with Russia and not just ignore them,” said one of the former officials. “We did it, but limited it to just [deconfliction].”
Clashes between Russian and U.S. forces in Syria have rarely turned violent, with one notable exception. In a bloody four-hour battle in 2018, American commandos killed 200-300 pro-Syrian government forces, including Russian mercenaries from the Wagner Group.
Recently, however, American military leaders in Syria are facing increasingly frequent brushes with Russian troops, according to two U.S. officials and one former U.S. official. Russia is deploying its forces closer and closer to U.S. positions in the Deir Ezzor region of eastern Syria, and the two militaries interact multiple times a week, if not daily, compared to roughly monthly last year, the people said.
So far, the two sides have been able to defuse these incidents without violence, said one U.S. military officer. But one of the U.S. officials said Russia and its Syrian and Iranian partners are trying to pressure the U.S. out of Syria altogether.
For instance, earlier this month, Breaking Defense reported that Russian and American troops had a standoff that lasted for hours in northeast Syria. A U.S. official confirmed the incident to POLITICO but said it was nonviolent. Meanwhile, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported last month that the Russian military was building a new base in northern Syria near the Turkish border.
The encroachments in Syria fit into a broader pattern of Russian attempts to test the U.S. commitment to remaining in the broader Middle East. National security experts say the Russian bounty program in Afghanistan is part of that effort.
Like in Syria, the Trump White House initially pushed the Pentagon and intelligence community to engage with the Russians in Afghanistan, said a former Trump defense official. During development of the Pentagon’s South Asia strategy for Afghanistan in 2017, the National Security Council asked defense officials “to look for ways to actively cooperate” with Moscow, particularly in the northern part of the country, the former official said.
“Everyone was like, ‘Whoa, whoa, whoa, we aren’t cooperating with the Russians, that’s crazy,” the former official said. One proposal was to have the Russian military run counterterrorism operations in northern Afghanistan. “DOD had to roll in pretty hard opposing the idea,” the official said.
Until 2015, the NATO coalition had an agreement in place with Moscow on a logistics route through Russia, central Asia and the Caucuses, called the northern distribution network, that carried as much as 40 percent of supplies for the coalition’s operations in Afghanistan. But Russia shut down the route in 2015.
Yet the recent reporting about Russia’s bounty program suggests Moscow is now testing U.S. resolve in Afghanistan, said Doug London, a former CIA officer and non-resident scholar with the Middle East Institute. Absent pushback from the White House, London said, “they will just continue to escalate until checked.”
Intelligence and defense officials have become increasingly embittered about the White House’s approach to Moscow, particularly regarding the repeated request to increase cooperation with the Russian military, according to four former Trump administration officials, several of whom requested anonymity to discuss sensitive operations.
From the beginning, the Trump White House wanted “a reset with Russia,” which included counterterrorism cooperation, said Marc Polymeropoulos, a former CIA official who retired in 2019. Even so, Moscow consistently rebuffed their efforts, he said.
“This was a nonstop request as part of the administration's oft-stated and well-publicized desire to engage with Moscow,” Polymeropoulos said. “While we once again attempted to engage the Russians, the effort as had always been the case was futile. There was never any gain to the U.S. in this endeavor."
In the days after Trump’s election, incoming national security adviser Michael Flynn immediately tried to increase cooperation between the U.S. and Russia in the region, with the stated goal of fighting terrorism.
“You know that the strategic goal is stability in the Middle East,” he told then-Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak in a conversation about a U.N. Security Council vote on Israeli settlements. “That’s the strategic goal. And, and, you know, between you and I, and you know this, and we know this, you know between Moscow and Washington. We will not achieve stability in the Middle East without working with each other against this radical Islamist crowd. Period.”
Flynn was ousted from the Trump administration in its early days, but his vision of closer cooperation between the U.S. and Russia lived on.
Initially shocked, Pentagon and intelligence officials quickly grew to resent requests for closer cooperation with the Kremlin and to question White House motives, the people said. After an election that the intelligence community determined had seen unprecedented campaign meddling by Russia, officials were especially wary of the new administration and its friendly stance toward Moscow.
“I don’t think the [intelligence community] trusts the White House at all,” said one former Trump administration official. “Not with information, and not to make the right decisions.”
Syria is one place where the Pentagon and White House officials have repeatedly clashed.
Senior defense officials twice pushed back on Trump’s efforts to withdraw U.S. forces from northeast Syria, once in late 2018 — prompting the resignation of then-Secretary of Defense James Mattis — and again in October, 2019, enabling a deadly Turkish invasion of Kurdish-held territory and prompting harsh criticism of the administration for abandoning the Kurds. Both times, the national security community eventually succeeded in convincing the White House to maintain a small force there.
Now that Assad has mostly won the war in the rest of the country, he has turned his attention to Kurdish-controlled areas in the eastern part of the country, where several hundred U.S. troops and their Kurdish partners are still fighting ISIS and guarding the region’s rich oil fields. The tactic has led to some of the emerging conflicts between American and Russian troops.
Back in Washington, Trump has mostly lashed out at the media over the recent reports about Russia’s behavior.
Some national security veterans say it reflects Trump’s long-standing rhetorical approach to Moscow. Since the beginning of his presidency, the commander in chief has repeatedly second-guessed and denigrated the intelligence agencies on issues related to Russia, including its meddling in U.S. elections.
Trump has also sometimes responded negatively to information in his daily intelligence briefings that presented Russia in a bad light, according to a former White House official. Over the course of 2017, briefers would choose not to highlight negative material about Russia when verbally briefing the president, the official said. That included intelligence about Russian activity in Syria that was detrimental to American troops or interests.
“I don’t remember a thing that involved Russia that people were comfortable discussing with the president,” the former official said. “Even at the most senior level, at the Cabinet level, it would be like drawing sticks to see who would have to raise a Russia issue with him.”
I'm just curious, since actual Data intercepts showed GRU-to-Taliban $ transfers & a key intermediary fled to Russia, how much evidence are you waiting for?
Since it has been shown that this information was contained in a White House briefing, what else do you need to form a conclusion?
I mean if you are waiting to see film of a Russian diplomat handing a Taliban leader some cash that's not going to happen.
Now if your question is in regards to Trump actually reading his daily briefings because he simply doesn't care what the hell is really going on, we may be in agreement.
In the 21st century, "wars" are fought as much with information and disinformation as they are with munitions and ordinance.
Where was the intercept from? What exactly did it say? It's possible to plant money trails.
How did this volatile information that was undoubtedly highly classified end up in the hands of the press?
What other money trails are there? Say one to a politician with access to sensitive information with an ax to grind from another foreign government or perhaps simply a greedy politician and a "news"paper executive.
Lol, I've been reading the Jason Bourne series recently.
We don't know what we don't know. *shrug*
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
And we do know what we do know. Just listing rhetorical questions doesn't change what we do know unless you just try and make up a bunch of conspiracy theories. Which seems a pretty popular method when trying to dismiss facts.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
President Trump has now been briefed on intelligence regarding Russian bounties on coalition forces in Afghanistan, White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said Tuesday.
McEnany confirmed during a press briefing that Trump had been briefed on the matter, but emphasized that there is still not a “consensus” in the intelligence community regarding the information.
“The president has been briefed on what is unfortunately in the public domain because of The New York Times,” she told reporters. “But that does not change the fact that there is no consensus on this intelligence that still has yet to be verified.”
McEnany vociferously criticized the Times, which first reported on the intelligence on Friday, for publishing what she described as unverified information, saying it damages the U.S. government’s ability to collect intelligence.
The Times first reported Friday that Russia covertly offered payments to Taliban-linked militants for successful attacks against coalition forces in Afghanistan. The White House has denied that Trump or Vice President Pence were personally briefed on the matter prior to reports about the intelligence.
Subsequent reports have said the information was included in the President’s Daily Brief (PDB), a written classified document summarizing intelligence given to Trump daily. McEnany has declined to confirm whether the information was in the PDB.
Trump is known not to read the written briefs and prefers to receive oral briefings a handful of times a week.
“The president has been briefed on what is unfortunately in the public domain because of The New York Times,”
Why is that unfortunate? If it wasnt brought up by the Times he would still be in the dark about possible a national security issue that effects our troops. I guess blinders are better.
The CIA Director, National Security Advisor, and the Chief of Staff can all confirm that neither the President nor the Vice President were briefed on the alleged Russian bounty intelligence.
Also...
“To date, DOD has no corroborating evidence to validate the recent allegations found in open-source reports."
The mother of a Marine killed last year in Afghanistan wants an investigation of reports that her son and two other Marines may have been the targets of Taliban-linked fighters who collected a bounty on U.S. soldiers offered by a Russian military intelligence unit.
Felicia Arculeo, whose son Cpl. Robert Hendriks died in the April 8, 2019, attack, also told CNBC “that the parties who are responsible should be held accountable, if that’s even possible.”
Also upset by the news reports was Shawn Gregoire, a Chicago woman whose son, Army Spc. Michael Isaiah Nance, was fatally shot July 29, 2019, with another soldier, Pfc. Brandon Jay Kreischer, in Afghanistan by an Afghan soldier who was being trained by U.S. military.
The mothers of two members of the U.S. military killed in Afghanistan last year say they want a thorough investigation of reports that a Russian military intelligence unit offered bounties to Taliban-linked fighters for the deaths of American soldiers.
One of service members was among three Marines who died in an attack that reports have said may have been related to a bounty that was actually paid.
Felicia Arculeo, whose son Cpl. Robert Hendriks died in the April 8, 2019, attack, also told CNBC “that the parties who are responsible should be held accountable, if that’s even possible.”
Arculeo, who lives in Long Island, N.Y., said she has not been contacted by U.S. intelligence or military officials since Friday.
That was the day that The New York Times broke the news that American intelligence agencies had assessed that a Russian intelligence unit last year offered bounties to Islamist fighters in Afghanistan who killed U.S. soldiers.
Another mom, Shawn Gregoire, whose Army paratrooper son Spc. Michael Isaiah Nance was killed last July in a so-called insider attack by an Afghan soldier in Tarin Kowt, in southern Afghanistan, said she and other parents of killed soldiers should have been notified of the intelligence about the bounties.
No reports have identified her son’s death as a possible case of a Russian-bounty-motivated killing.
But Gregoire said the fact that the attack was committed by an insider, who was captured after the shooting, makes her suspicious that a bounty may have played a role.
“I really want someone to get to the bottom of this,” Gregoire told CNBC.
The Times has also reported that President Donald Trump had been briefed on the intelligence months ago, but as of yet had not decided on whether or how to retaliate against Russia after being presented with a menu of options. The Associated Press, meanwhile, reported that Trump was briefed on the alleged bounties in March 2019, the month before Hendriks and the two other Marines were killed.
Other news outlets, including NBC News, have confirmed that there is intelligence backing up the claim that a Russian unit offered bounties on U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan.
“I just happened to randomly see” the news about the report, Arculeo said.
“I got pretty upset.”
Her 25-year-old son, Hendriks, and the other two Marines, Sgt. Benjamin Hines, 31, and 43-year-old Staff Sgt. Christopher Slutman, were killed by a car bomb near Bagram Air Field. The three Marines, who had been assigned to the 25th Marine Regiment, 4th Marine Division, died just days before they were scheduled to return home from Afghanistan.
On Sunday, The Associated Press reported that officials said the intelligence community was investigating whether the attack was linked to the suspected Russian bounty offer.
An official familiar with the intelligence told NBC News that the United States has gathered information showing that Russian operatives paid bounties for killing American soldiers to the Taliban, and that members of the U.S. military, along with Afghan civilians, died as a result of attacks launched to collect those cash rewards.
Arculeo said that the possible link of the attack that killed her son to Russian bounties should continue to be probed despite the White House’s claim that the intelligence about the bounties is not verified.
“Absolutely, that should be investigated,” she said.
Asked what should be done if it is determined that Russia paid a bounty for the killing of her son, Arculeo said, “Look, that’s a tough question.”
“At the end of the day, my son is still gone. He’s still not coming home,” she said.
Gregoire, whose son was known by his middle name, Isaiah, was fatally shot July 29, 2019, with another soldier, Pfc. Brandon Jay Kreischer, by an Afghan soldier who was being trained by U.S. military.
Nance, who was 24 years old, was on the verge of re-enlisting in the Army, where he served with the 82nd Airborne, for another three-year-stint, and planned to make the military his career, his mom said.
“I had so many different reactions,” Gregoire told CNBC on Tuesday morning, about reading the news about the possible bounties on Saturday.
“Extremely emotional, to anger and sadness. It just brought me back to July 2019 all over again.”
“Just angry that I had to find out there’s a possible link ... through the media,” Gregoire said.
She said she is “wondering if there’s some truth to this and if these attacks could have been prevented.”
The Times has reported that Trump was briefed last February about intelligence regarding the alleged bounties. The Associated Press on Monday night, citing officials with direct knowledge of the matter, also reported that the White House was aware of the matter much earlier, in early 2019. Then-national security advisor John Bolton told colleagues that he briefed Trump on the matter in March 2019, the AP added.
“I saw that” AP report, Gregoire said.
“And I really want someone to get to the bottom of this,” she added. “Even if he was not briefed, what’s happening now?”
“What are you doing now, now that you know?” Gregoire asked, referring to Trump.
“This is still an issue,” she said. “We still have women and men over there sacrificing their lives, and if Russia is a problem ...” she said.
Gregoire said that nearly a year after her son’s killed she has yet to receive the after action report about his death.
“What was pretty devastating to me was this were the questions have: who is this person, why did he do it?” Gregoire said. “To not have this report and to wake up and [see the news about the bounties], I feel somebody should have warned me.”
Gregoire said she has contacted the office of Sen. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., who herself is a military veteran, to get answers.
White House spokeswoman Kayleigh McEnany on Monday told reporters, “There was not a consensus among the intelligence community” about whether the bounty payments were offered.
“And, in fact, there were dissenting opinions within the intelligence community, and it would not be elevated to the president until it was verified,” McEnany said.
Trump in a tweet Sunday wrote, “Intel just reported to me that they did not find this info credible, and therefore did not report it to me or” to Vice President Mike Pence.
Democratic leaders in Congress demanded that the Trump administration brief both the House and the Senate on the intelligence related to the bounties.
“The questions that arise are: was the President briefed, and if not, why not, and why was Congress not briefed,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said in a letter to Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe and CIA chief Gina Haspel.
“Congress and the country need answers now,” Pelosi said in the letter.
Trump is not going to sweep his Russian bounty problem under the rug without answering the family members of the victims.
Also, active duty and veterans are outraged and they want answers. Veterans voted for Trump 2 to 1 and if they don't get answers from Trump that make sense, the military vote might break for Biden.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Funny that - I mean an old man gets knocked to the ground by police in Buffalo and Trump invents and tweets a theory that the man's part of Antifa or some such and was trying to block police frequencies .... yet we have British and US intel what the Russians are doing and ....
And the Trump faithful cannot wait to create excuses for him. smh
The more things change the more they stay the same.
The CIA Director, National Security Advisor, and the Chief of Staff can all confirm that neither the President nor the Vice President were briefed on the alleged Russian bounty intelligence.
Also...
“To date, DOD has no corroborating evidence to validate the recent allegations found in open-source reports."
love your BS
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
The CIA Director, National Security Advisor, and the Chief of Staff can all confirm that neither the President nor the Vice President were briefed on the alleged Russian bounty intelligence.
Also...
“To date, DOD has no corroborating evidence to validate the recent allegations found in open-source reports."
Then why weren't the above mentioned people allowed to speak with Democratic Reps? Why was only the white house staff allowed to brief the Dems? Tell me 40, What is Trump hiding?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Covid is a hoax because you guys are accusing Trump for its devastation and not your and simple Bidens beloved China SMH
No we’re blaming trump’s complete lack of leadership in steering this country through a pandemic. I could give a rats arse where it started. It’s here. He failed. Own it.
We know Trump's #1 priority is protecting Putin rather than protecting our own soldiers. The first excuse was Trump wasn't briefed..BUT,then John Bolton told the truth, that he briefed Trump on subject of bounties in early 2019.
Trumps excuse, I wasn't briefed just went down the crapper.
So Trump falls back on his old, lame excuse, "it's just a hoax"...and that is enough for some who don't give a damn about our soldiers serving in harms way.
Trump and his administrations lack of concern for our own soldiers serving in Afghanistan is just another example of Trumps priorities...Putin owns Trump.
You fell for the same crap the Left has been pulling for four years now...
A mid level, never-Trumper in Intel illegally leaks something that is possible to the New York Times or Washington post to damage Trump.
The NYT writes an emotional and outlandish story of Trump dropping the ball on Russia.
The Dems in Washington react with outrage, demanding investigations.
And you guys bite, hook line and sinker.
Only to later find out, to this day, the intel may be true but is completely unsubstantiated! No Proof, just theory.
Trump and Pence were never briefed because it wasn't verified.
Some may believe Germany's Merkel is sleeping with Putin but until it is verified, the President's time is not wasted with the gossip. But if some guy in the CIA decides to leak the gossip to the Times, it will be on again!
You have continued falling for every word that comes out of a habitual liars mouth for years now. You have no room to preach at anyone else. Better luck next time Comrade.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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love your BS
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