DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Is America Starting Down the Path of Nazi Germany?

My family was still in Prussia during all that except for the last 13 years. The settled in Dayton oh, and fought for the north. They didnt live in the reconstructed south, and didnt like jim crow laws. I'll consider myself absolved.

no one personally accused you of anything.

your self-absolution is superfluous, and unrelated to the message behind Pit's post.

I totally support Black Lives matter, This 15 minutes.

I don't support the overthrow or hatred of the United States of America as founded, in any way though.

After reading that long winded explanation after "what we believe" posted by Pdawg, I totally see the good,

If we can replace the word black, with the word white, everywhere in the post then we can have equality, however if we can't, then by definition it is putting one... in front of another, one group.... ahead of another group, and to do so puts the 2nd group behind,
which is not equality.

As long as we can replace the word, black, or white, with Hispanic, everywhere in the post, then we can have equality too, however if we can't, then by definition it is putting one... in front of another, one group.... ahead of another group, and to do so puts the 2nd group behind,
which is not equality.

In my heart, and thoughts right now, We need black lives matter, (but not the socialist, facist, stuff it's become)
because we need Justice, equality, and opportunity for my beloved friends, my black children,

Oh, and we dang sure need nuclear families, there is nothing, no better environment for a child than their own, natural birth parented, married between one man and one woman, father and mother, environment for a child to grow up in.

And we need to understand, the police, have helped thousands of millions of people throughout time, and are in place, ordained as an instution, as an instrument for righteousness.

Love righteousness and walk humbly before God.

At this time right now, I feel so much support for Black Lives Matter, the righteous part of it, not the part, not the portion that wants to overthrow America, but for the love of black people and opportunity and lifting.

I'm for lifting people up, not for holding people down and that goes for all people.

Oh, and criminal behavior, no excuse for it, I'm not for excusing it.

Black lives matter! I love my friends!

... But you know what really matters? The Lord God Almighty! If people would just shut up, and listen to what God says,
well these perilous end times may be a burden we have to go through but we would all get through them a little better.
ermm

So that means it's fine to pretend none of this happened? Nobody said you owed anyone anything with the exception of admitting the history of this country. When and if you ever do, it's easy to see the oppression inflicted on the black race and how it certainly didn't stop with the abolishment of slavery.

It's not always that easy, Sometimes, but not always,

I've been successful and unsuccessful, and maybe God placed me there to gain an understanding,

and all I want to say is sometimes, doing the right thing isn't enough, sometimes, successful people don't understand, (not all the time, some of em do), that everyone I know who was successful took advantage of some opportunity, and sometimes for unsuccessful people the opportunity just isn't there,

and it's not a matter of responsibility always, not always, sometimes, but sometimes it's just not possible, and that is disheartening.

We could be putting all of this energy to something good, not negative. Hmmm.

Not personally, but I always get included into a certain group due to the color of my skin. It's damn near racist.

Hmm.
Is it in any way possible to see the opportunity for growth and advancement provided by this country, onto the black race and how it certainly didn't stop with the abolishment of slavery.

Most certainly.

I have said many times that the history of this country should be thoroughly taught, good and bad. This is one of the reasons we shouldn't be tearing down monuments and statues. It should be taught without spin or bias, so if nothing else, we can always see how far we've come as a people.

I have also said for some time now that the democrats are pushing people to destroy their history, so they can whitewash it (pun intended) from history.

Yeah, the fact Germany doesn't have any statues of Hitler standing in their nation has made them forget all about WW2. Weak.

Not to nitpick, but WW2 is currently still recent enough that it is taught in schools. I notice we seem to start to drop off what is taught is it gets older, and some of it is important.

I can tell you even 30+ years ago when I was in school, the whole slavery era was just a couple days or week at most of coverage, yet it's a huge part of our history.

And, while my memory from that long ago is quite faded, I seem to recall it was more about the perspective of Lincoln's Presidency, more so than about slavery.

Actually, I recall more coverage of the Revolutionary war than the Civil War for some reason.

Come on now Florida. There are documentaries on the Civil war being made today. They are everywhere for anyone willing to look. I just watched a three part documentary on the History Channel breaking down the Civil war a few weeks ago. Yes, a new one.

Now can you tell me what a statue of a Civil War general who killed thousands of America troops in the middle of a town square "teaches people" about the Civil War?

Are you just playing devil's advocate right now?

You say that like I disagree with it.

The problem is it wasn't really built for all white people. It was built for rich people who happened to be white.

Before slavery there was indentured servitude of Europeans and persons of color. Unfortunately, as the need of labor increased, those rich people came to the conclusion that slavery would be more profitable. Not for all white people, but for those in power who had large tracts of land and familial wealth.

Only ~25% of whites in the South were slave owners link . That means greater than 75% of whites in the US weren't. Yet, whites constantly get lumped all together by skin color ignoring the multitude of cultural and economic differences.

It's not really so much of a white head start as a rich head start. Most white people have more in common with minorities economically/systematically than they do with rich, white people.

The system isn't designed to keep minorities down. It's designed to keep rich people rich.

It screws over poor white people, too. They don't even get the benefits of affirmative action.

Yes, many African American's families didn't start out with any wealth. It's hard to grow it if you don't have any to start. It works that way for poor white families, too.

Still wealth can't just pop out from nowhere. You have to keep growing and tending it. Just giving wealth to people doesn't work as it bleeds away if they don't know how to manage it.

How do we change the focus from take from the white and give to the black, to "take from" the rich exploiters and give to the exploited? How do we stop the exploitation?

Dividing on racial lines disguises the problems. The rich get richer. Normal people end up fighting amongst themselves for the wrong reasons. They're all being exploited by rich politicians/power brokers on both sides.

Still trying to equate that one, huh?

The statues you guys now have problems with were erected by democrats. They are the ones that stole the citizenship of an entire group of people, after a bloody war was fought to end the practice of slavery. They've kept coming back to the same ways they've always displayed. I think that's very important to history. It shows they never changed, and still haven't.

Germany is their own country and can do as they like with their history.

So let me get this straight. First you bring up who erected the statues not what they actually represent. Slavery. So then does that mean you agree with the Democrats who erected them? See how that works?

See, I understand that it doesn't matter who erected them to see that they're wrong.

And you're right. Germany is their own country. Yet they are 100% proof that you don't need to glorify military criminals to remember history.

and while I know that Auschwitz isn't in Germany, the Jews aren't taking a wrecking ball to all the old concentration camps precisely because they understand that if you remove those examples of atrocity people will forget.

So no statues of Hitler, right? How about Hitlers generals?

Oh that's right. Instead of erecting statues of them they excecuted them.

Using your example, maybe we should take a vote among black people if these statues should remain? I mean since it was you who brought up the wishes of the victims.

...so we're lumping Teddy Roosevelt with Hitler and Nazis now?

I'm actually on board with removing monuments. Divisive symbols in public spaces are frequently problematic. 'How do we alternatively remember the associated history?' is my question. Objectively preferably. Not the "romanticized" versions that all too often seem to end up in the "history" books or fall from the lips of amateur historians.

I think you misunderstood me or my intent.

Yes, the information is out there. But as far as teaching, it seems our school system sticks more with recent history, and is slowly removing some of the most important parts of our history.

There can be 1,000 Civil war documentaries, but if someone has no interest in that type of thing, they aren't going to watch them. But I feel it is very important for all generations to be taught at least the basics of Civil War, so even if they never seek more information, they at least have a nugget inside that may one day light up when the need arises.

Hiding all our history away, and removing it from our teaching and history books will not serve us well in the future.

Now don't take that last statement as meaning I think all the statues should be left alone, it has nothing to do with events that are happening now, or the statues. I am talking about the information itself.

On an off tangent of the above, for as great a resource as the internet is, it has also created a lack of need to remember things, as well as created a lot of mis-information.

Sorry if I misunderstood you or BD. You just see it used as an excuse so often that somehow removing civil war memorials will erase history.

And BD, there will always be fringes on both sides that advocate crazy things that the mainstream of their movement or party would never endorse. They tend to be the exception, not the rule in both directions.

I listen to people who present ideas in good faith, are willing to consider they're wrong, and drops the dog whistle from their mouth. That existed here from 2011-2016. These days? It's hard to find voices willingly to publicly voice their displeasure.



Because you know my life, right?

Have you spent 14 weeks on a remote shore of the Bering Sea immersing yourself in the culture of an Alaska Native group?

Have you spent time serving in the inner-city through tutoring?

Have you worked around a super diverse workforce where you coworkers come from thousand of miles all over the world from various religious and cultural background?

When was the last time you actually listened to someone who doesn't share your "you're too divisive! Protest like Dr. King even though he embraced the same stuff at BLM!" attitude? I haven't witnessed it here in the past month and a half.

There have been many attempts asking you to listen. You don't. You explain minority posters away essentially telling them "no, you're wrong. They are too divisive. Listen to me, a white man, tell minorities how they can act to receive rights in a way that will make everyone happy."



If you bothered to listen to me the last month and a half, you would notice that I make constant mention that the majority should step back and follow the lead of those who wish to have liberation.

I get out of the way. My mission is to raise critical points to people similar to me. This involves raising critical points that lack sanitation to the majority.

Obviously it works. The amount of effort you've been trying to explain me away for the last month shows me that you're at least thinking about what I'm saying. Do I expect to change your mind, nope.

Maybe one day all of this will convalesce and you'll realize the hill your standing on is the wrong one. You wouldn't be the first to admit you were wrong, either.



I learn from those who face the very challenges you're trying to solve from an outsiders perspective. All I share is what I learn from them. I'm not the poster on this board who claimed he's done more for black Americans than the very black Americans on this very forum.



Projection is a fun thing. I suggest you change the movie you're showing, though.



Again, another paternal argument. Who taught you that it's okay to tell minorities how to act?



You're okay trying to parent black Americans by telling them "change your methods! These methods sow too much division!"

.

One of us has continually invoked speeches from MLK the past month and a half. Hint: It's not me.



Were you in this crowd in Charlottesville?

Why is it so many think that, "Well I'm not a racist" is enough? We've been hearing that for decades now and we still see inequality. When are they going to learn that until and unless the white race takes an active role in helping change things, nothing will change?

The lack of that basic understanding leads to dumb things like this being said.

It does erase history. Just not the history you think. It's an erasure of the history of the democrat party, who stayed fully in control of the south, from just after reconstruction, until 1984.

Also, I have seen several times that people have called confederate soldiers "traitors" on this board. They were all given pardons for their rebellion, in an attempt to heal the country after the war, with the exception of jefferson davis, and a few tried for war crimes. I've seen davis' cell in ft monroe, va, and got to see history. It was a nice dark cell, just at the waterline in the Chesapeake bay. They kept him on a man made island for the rest of his life.

I’ve been here for those years. They weren’t that good. I was called a racist just for my support of Bush. Now we have you doing that same crap. Bull is speaking up for his point of view. You know nothing about him yet you feel the need to ask him If he was at Charlottesville. You pulled something similar to Dave. You’re no better than anybody else. Btw I see you are still going after 40 about his comments on leaving. I find that rich since you made such a big deal about leaving this board not all that long ago. I even remember you starting a thread about it.

Don't pay any attention to Rocket, he's a self described socialist. You can't help people like that. Just look at his signature, I mean come on.

I don't know your whole life, but you pat yourself on the back about it enough that I've picked up the broad strokes.

Why, yes, yes, I have worked with a super diverse work force. I was stationed in Japan and worked with the Japanese, had Nigerian, Filipino, Hispanic, African American, and a plethora of other background friends and "co-workers." I "explored" much of the western Pacific and was exposed to many different cultures.

No, I haven't worked with the very specific group of Alaskan Natives. I did have family that lived up near Anchorage. I imagine many of their problems are economically related, though. "Rich" companies and corporate interests encroaching on "their" lands.

No, my service didn't take the path of tutoring in inner cities. In my naivete, I decided to join the military shortly post-9/11 with the misguided/simplistic belief I could help prevent another such terrorist act and was sent half away around the world, far away from family and friends to spend months at a time stuck in metal boxes in the middle of the ocean, sleeping in what they literally call a coffin rack. Back then I still bought into the "fact" that "we" were "promoting freedom and democracy" around the world.

Since getting back I've gotten my degree (Summa [censored] Laude, BBA in Business Management, Kent State) with the idea in mind that everything is business and I could still figure out the best way to be of service later. Unfortunately, the gist of business seems to be about helping the rich get richer. How can we spend less and make more profits?

I've looked into the Peace Corps and was close to applying to go to Senegal working in sustainable local agriculture when the Covid craziness kicked off.








I listen, the problem is what they keep saying doesn't add up. Other people keep making it about black and white and only black and white. Us and them/you. Minorities and white. It's counterproductive. Treat us the same, but you have to treat us special. You have to say black lives, you can't say all lives as if all doesn't include black and they have to be specially singled out. Get rid of your divisive symbols, but we're going to keep using our divisive symbol. They're peaceful protests, but fight is the verb we use to describe them.



That's just it. You constantly talk for them, yet somehow consider that getting out of the way. I've asked minorities for feedback and input, but they seem mostly content to let their "white knight" carry their torch for them.

For something to coalesce, the pieces have to fit together. I wish it would convalesce and the broken, mismatched, counterproductive pieces would "heal" into a functioning whole.



There you go again implying that only minorities face challenges. There you go implying white people have to be outsiders. Police brutality isn't just a racial issue no matter how many times people try to make it one. Justice and equality aren't just black issues, they're "all issues" despite how offensive minorities perversely find the idea.



You're right. I shouldn't suggest anything to anyone that has a different skin color than I do. Clearly trying to talk with minorities is something a white person should never do. Clearly, I'm the one reinforcing racial divisions. (This is sarcasm for those needing an explicit written indication) You can't tell me what to do, you're white and I'm black. You can't understand.

Sorry fellow human being, you must be right, humans couldn't possibly have anything in common if they have different color skin. Empathy only can be applied to people that look like you. (More sarcasm)

Actions can either support goals or not. Some of the actions that are being taken seem to be counterproductive to the alleged goals. Should I stay quiet while sticking my thumb up giving the message that it's not entirely working, but keep doing it anyway?

I quoted MLK once. It was a good speech. He reached people in his day. I hoped the words could do it again.

I'm not trying to be him. I know my limitations. I'm lousy at changing hearts and minds. He was amongst the best.




Are you just trying to be offensive here? I'm not sure what your reasoning was. I can think of plenty of stupid, offensive questions to ask in return, but I'll refrain despite the temptation.

It's because many on their side like to play the professional victim card and use excuses as to why they're not getting ahead. Race being one of them.

I’ll pray for you in your decent.

I know what's right and what's wrong can't possibly overcome your hate and political leanings. I don't really care who or what party is responsible for them. Monuments to the protectors of slavery is wrong. Memorializing those responsible for forming a military force that killed so many U.S. troops is wrong.



I understand you can't possibly comprehend that have been giving a pardon for being a traitor doesn't actually make you any less of a traitor. The fact you won't be punished for your crimes doesn't mean you didn't commit them.

Imagine the most caustic ,hate filled. vicious anti Trump and repub guy is telling you to get over your hate.. man that is some large nads. Just think about if it goes their way they will be governed by WARLORDS wielding AR15,s instead of Mayors. smh

No, we should have imprisoned about 35% of the population of the country for life. Maybe just executed them to get it over with. How about abolishing the democrat party? We could have done like the British and sent them all to their own prison colony, but unfortunately, Australia was already British. I love how you never present solutions.

Daman,

Its not just Trump. Trump is just a symptom of a much larger problem. BOTH SIDES of the politcal spectrum both Democrats and Republicans have lost their way and gave in to extremism.

Folks need to understand, The Republican Party of today should not even be called the Republican Party, they should be called the Neo-Con party. The Republican Party I grew up with was:

Anti-War
Non-Interventionist Foreign Policy
States Rights
Small Government
Fiscally Conservative
Pro-Bill of Rights
Pro-Small Government
Pro-2nd Amendment
Pro-Balanced Budget

The Republican Party today is:

Pro War
Pro Deficit Spending
Anti-State Rights
Anti-Small Government
Anti-Bill of Rights
Interventionist Foreign Policy.

These are all extremist positions we have as a society normalized.

The Democratic Party today should not be called the Democratic Party, they should be called the Democratic-Socialist Party.

If we look at the old Democratic Party we had:

Pro-Unions
Pro-Working American
Pro-Middle Class America
Pro-Prevailing Wage
Pro-Border Control
Pro-American Manufacturing Jobs
Pro-Protecting American Jobs
Pro-2nd Amendment
Pro-Balanced Budget

The Democratic Party of today is:

Anti-Border Control
Anti-Protecting American Jobs
Anti-2nd Amendment
Anti-Private Property Rights
Pro-Excessive Taxation
Pro-Open Borders
Pro-Socialist Policy

Literally ever part of the modern Democratic Party Platform, just like the modern Republican Party Platform, is completely at odds with what these parties were founded on.


This could all end bad simply because how we have normalized extreme positions in national politics in both parties. [/quote

Say what you want, but the larger problem is Trump.. Who wants to shut down the free press.. Trump,,,,, Hitler did the same thing..

Who sews distrust in Intellegence Agencies? Trump.. Hitler did that.

Who sees boogy men at every turn? Trump,,,Hitler did that.

Start with these. Keep looking for more things Hitler and Trump had in common.

And you perpetuate keeping the current problems.

I see. You actually think removing statues will cure racism. At least you find yourself a deep thinker.

I think it's one of many steps needed to address racial issues. There isn't some magic bullet miracle fix. But perpetuating racist symbols sure doesn't help. And all of your excuses not to address those issues won't solve anything either.

Here is the deal, Mr. Expert of all racial and gun rights. If it isn't called out, it's going to happen.

If you steal a whole salami from the butcher, they are going to notice that and do something about it. If the shop help steals it 4 slices at a time, it's never missed.

That's worth about as much as the whole "They're gonna take my guns" BS I've heard ever since Bill Clinton ran for president back in 1992.

After almost three decades of telling the same lie I would have thought ya'll would have come up with a new one by now.

Daman,

Trump isn't the larger problem.

BOTH SIDES and BOTH PARTIES have accepted and normalized extremist positions in politics and folks wonder why the news media and the country is what it is now?

Its only a matter of time before the Democrats (if they get their way) put in to office a modern day Joseph Stalin/Mao Zedong who will butcher millions of Americans during their reign.

Its also only a matter of time before the Republicans(if they get their way) elect a Hiter/Mussolini type into power that will cost us just as many lives in useless crusades and wars.

Trump hasn't even done anything really.

Im telling you though, there is NO WAY out of this until both party bases admit to themselves that these radical left and right positions we have normalized are NOT the way forward. If we continue down this road its only a matter of time until we end up with some far left or far right wacko that is going to systematically opress all of us.

The first step to fixing it is acknowledging it exists, but the majority of both sides refuse and instead blame Trump or Biden, or Bernie or Warren or whomever else when in reality none of those idiots would hold an office or even have a vote if the population didn't agree to normalize such radical left and right postions.

No need to come up with a new one. I would have thought you would have smartened up by now. You aren't getting any younger.