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Who on this board is that directed at?

They are going to keep all their icons anyway. You can buy all that stuff online. You aren't ignorant. You don't think fans are going to just throw that stuff out or not wear it do you?

When the stadium opens up, you are going to see Indian jerseys and Wahoo logos everywhere.

They can change the name, but they are always going to be the Indians to me. I don't care what your panty waist tells me I should call them.

I know this is shocking but it’s not about you.

I have a new thought on name controversies as one would,

GC. Starting yesterday Morning, I thought,

OK, Any team that has to (or "gets" to) change their name, I only support they all change their name to Patriots. The End.


Cleveland Patriots, Washington Patriots, Atlanta baseball Patriots,

And don't even worry about the New England Patriots because if Canada can have two football teams named Rough Riders, then it's entirely doable!

In a way it is. I have enough Indian blood to be able to apply for nation recognition. My great-great grandmother was a full blooded Blackfoot. I never knew her. She passed in the 30's. Maybe late 20's. No BS here. I have a couple of cousins who are in the nation. We are the last in line to be able to apply.

1/16 is the last number allowed. I qualify. Great grandma, who I knew until maybe age 19-20 before she died in 69 or so was 1/2 blood Blackfoot. Grandma was 1/4 blood. She died before my great-grandma in maybe 64-65. Dad was 1/8 blood. He passed in 95. That makes me 1/16, so there you go. No BS being told here.

So, unless you are in a nation, shut-up. If so, I offer my apology and we can talk about it in private as blood brothers.

Again, not about you.

OK...it's all about me. Now we know. I have no say in this, it's all about you, even if I have investment in this and you have none other than a big mouth.


LOL....carry on dude

It is about him, or anyone else who has an emotional investment in the team they have supported since childhood. What, exactly, is your stake in the Cleveland baseball team's nickname as a Yankee fan? Your sense of moral superiority? BS!

I was one of the fans who tried to fight to keep our name and colors when the Browns moved in 1995. It mattered then, and it matters now.

It's not about me either.

Like I said, just carry on. I have said what I need to say and don't need you directing conversation at me on this thread any longer. We have said all we can say here.

I think you are a good guy, we have been friendly on many threads across the board, and don't expect that to change. I don't carry grudge from one thread to the next.

Time to move on. We just disagree here.

Here is my thumbs up

Do the same and we carry on

My fandom has nothing to do with knowing right from wrong.

In college I took a class on Native American studies. The professor was/is full-blooded Hopi (https://www.cpp.edu/ceis/ethnic-womens-studies/Dr.%20Sandy%20Dixon.shtml, that's her).

She didn't mind being called an Indian and thinks that that label is not horrible. I was surprised with that sentiment. What she was concerned about was misrepresentations of Indian/Native American/Indigenous people. One of her examples of this was Chief Wahoo.

To me the name "Indians" is not the problem. The association with Chief Wahoo is the problem. Changing the name from the Tribe does not distance the team enough from Chief Wahoo.

When I said it's not about Ballpeen I meant that it is about future generations. If the name is The Tribe (or something similar) then Chief Wahoo lives on into the future. If the name is the Spiders (or something similar) then Chief Wahoo dies eventually.

In your opinion. You seem to think your sensibilities are universal when in fact they are just yours. The name "Indians" offends virtually nobody, but now, all the sudden, I'm supposed to flush a lifetime of fandom down the toilet, because a Yankee fan knows of a professor who's a Hopi Indian who wasn't offended by it? Good grief.

They always go too far.

So you didn’t read my post?

The Politically Correct States of America in full force.

Does that mean they keep the helmets? I hope so, because those are sweet. I think that is the kind of depiction I would want if I was a Native American. The name had to go, but the logo is cool.

Please don’t post links to Nazi websites.

Warriors is a tainted name.
It has Golden State stink on it.

I don't like the name, either. I just like the logo.

I like the logo also.

I think the name has a nice ring to it.

It’s totally creatively bankrupt. Come up with something new.

And the "inside info" came from a local sports talk show host. It was radio show filler to stir conversation.

Nothing more.

For renaming the Indians...
I am warming up to the Commodores
I don't love the Blue Sox but do like the Blues (but then we'd have to change the Cavs to the Gold)

Spitballing some ideas. What about:
The Cleveland Astronauts (John Glenn)
The Cleveland Super Heroes (Home of Superman)
The Cleveland Killer Whales (Shamu inspired)
The Cleveland Locomotive (there's a night train coming, get out of our way)
The Cleveland Cougars
The Cleveland Cujos
The Cleveland Avengers
The Cleveland Majestic
The Cleveland Cosmos

I think I kind of like The Cleveland Avengers and The Cleveland Cosmos

Washington Bullets has a nice ring to it ...... lol

Warriors? Meh ... not a fan of re-using an already existing pro name

Sir, yes sir.

I disagree. They have to keep hold of their identity in some way.

You don't just go from the Redskins to the Fighting Amish.

The Cleveland Werewolves
The Cleveland Vampires and they go to the plate and swing the Vampire Bats

first, let me say that the free market capitalist in me says if enough consumer pressure is brought to bear that convinces any of these teams it is in their best interest to make a change, so be it. I'm sure there is going to be plenty of kneeling and BLM and "woke" stuff on Sundays and that's whatever. So long as football Sunday is still mostly about football, I plan on watching.

I get your sentiment about 'stepping aside' but here is where I think there is a disconnect: when you have 9 out of 10 people in a minority group who either don't care or aren't particularly bothered by these names and logos, it means its not an issue for them as a group.

Now, you want to take that remaining 1 out of 10 and enact change because they are offended.

What gives that 1 the right to decide how all 10 are represented? Even potentially over some of that 9 who may actually like these names and logos.

CLEVELAND -- Usually, I am happy to be proven correct; to make a prediction and have it come out right on the money. Doesn’t happen often, but it’s fun when it does. Not today, though.

In January 2018, when the Cleveland Major League Baseball team announced its intention to cashier Chief Wahoo, the smiling little fellow who had adorned team uniforms for almost 70 years, I lamented his demise in a column that was published under the headline, “Farewell to the Chief … can the name be far behind?”

No, no, no, no … said team owner Paul Dolan.

"Not only are we adamant about keeping the name Indians, but (MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred) is similarly supportive of the name," Dolan told columnist Terry Pluto after announcing he was caving on the mascot issue.

“Yes, some people will continue to make noise about that,” he proclaimed, “but I’m not troubled by its use. The Commissioner is not troubled by the use of the name. We are confident the name will continue on.”

So, if you’re keeping score at home: The team’s adamant, untroubled, confident owner lasted about two and a half years – less time than even I had imagined – before taking a called third strike.

Oh, I know. There has been no official decision yet. The team simply announced Friday evening in a tweet, signed by no one – not Dolan, not President Chris Antonetti – that it would be studying “the best path forward with regard to the team name.” That came on the heels of the NFL Washington Redskins having been bullied by a couple of corporate sponsors into a similar announcement.

But we all know what it means, don’t we?

It’s easy to understand Dolan’s concern. The recent explosion of protests, shamings and firings has most of the country curled in a fetal position, afraid to say anything that might be taken as racially insensitive or offensive. We live in a time when real estate people are no longer allowed to use the term “master bedroom” (it’s now “primary bedroom”). The term is not only racist because it calls up images of slavery, but it also gender-biased because it is belittling to women and non-binary people as well.

As long as Dolan is in a name-studying mood, he might want to also consider his own title. Mark Cuban of the NBA Dallas Mavericks recently discovered that the heretofore perfectly descriptive title of “owner” was offensive after being “enlightened” at a party, and is now known on the Mavs’ website as the team’s “proprietor.” You could look it up.

Media reports about the name controversy are quick to emphasize that leaders of several Native American advocacy groups have demanded name changes of various sports teams, including the Redskins and Indians.

That’s not a surprise, coming from self-appointed activists and advocates. But whether they represent the beliefs of the general Native American population is open to question. Somehow, these reports generally forget to include recent polls that indicate the average Native-American-on-the-street is not at all offended.

In 2004, the Annenberg Public Policy Center found in a national poll that 90 percent of Native Americans surveyed were not offended by the “Redskins” nickname.

In 2016, The Washington Post, incredulous at those results, conducted its own poll. To the dismay of many, the Post got the same results.

And last year, a marketing research firm called Wolvereye dug a little deeper in a national poll with more probing questions, and found that 68 percent of Native Americans favored keeping the name “Redskins.” The Indians, Atlanta Braves, Kansas City Chiefs, and NHL Chicago Black Hawks did even better on the “not offended” scale.

Out of 40 possible emotions the firm asked respondents to choose in reaction to “Redskins,” here’s what finished No. 1:

“Proud.”

None of that makes any difference, of course. The People Who Know What’s Best for Us have decreed that the terms are offensive to Native Americans, so they’d better darn well start getting offended. And the team owners – er, “proprietors” – had better snap to if they know what’s good for them, else they’ll find their T-shirts and ball caps taken off the shelves, as Nike did with the Redskins paraphernalia last week, and was later joined by Target and Walmart.

What has changed in the 30 months since Dolan promised that the team name was sacrosanct? The best guess is that he just got worn down, tired of the argument. Manager Terry Francona acknowledged as much Monday, saying it’s time to move on.

That’s how it happens, isn’t it?

There’s a scene in the Jack London novel, “White Fang,” about a dogfight in which the wolfdog protagonist takes on a bulldog.

Snapping and snarling, he starts ripping into the bulldog, who plods tenaciously after him, until there is an opening and the bulldog grabs a fold of neck fur and holds on. No amount of thrashing can disengage the grip, and every time White Fang relaxes, the bulldog increases his hold, patiently hanging on and waiting for the next opportunity, slowly choking the life out of his faster opponent. The book would have come to a quick end had it not been for a savior who separated the two and saved White Fang’s life.

The self-appointed guardians of offensive terms are like that bulldog. They grab hold of an issue and keep holding on, all the while patiently improving their grip whenever we get distracted or an opportunity to press their views on the rest of us presents itself.

The furor in the aftermath of George Floyd’s death has given them that opportunity, and they are not going away.

So here are the questions we now face: What is being lost in a name change? Does it matter?

Certainly, we all face more pressing concerns these days than the name of a baseball team. On the other hand, let’s not be too quick to dismiss the significance of what’s happening here.

Tribe fans have prevailingly loved the brand and how it connects them to their childhoods, their families, and the history of their city. Their embrace of Wahoo was an expression of affection, not racial dominance or belittlement. Despite the cancel culture mania that has had its grip on our nation now for some time, intention does matter. Much will be lost as we continue to allow Those Who Know Better to dismiss or reframe our good intentions. Some are already admitting defeat, hoping that a new name will usher in a new and glorious history in Cleveland.

That’s self-delusion. What seems more likely is that, as we anoint the Tribe anew, we reaffirm a disturbing trend to seek stability rather than buck the whims of a noisy, powerful few.

The bulldog wins again.

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2020/0...nds-throat.html

Fans love the brand?

Out of 40 possible emotions the firm asked respondents to choose in reaction to “Redskins,” here’s what finished No. 1:

“Proud.”

https://newrepublic.com/article/154740/native-american-imposters-keep-corrupting-redskins-debate

Are you talking about the whiny Folks who are on here carrying on about The Indians changing the name or the folks whining about wanting the name changed? Because both groups fit your description.



What do you think about the city of Columbus who took it down on their own?

Christopher Columbus statue taken down in Columbus, Ohio

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/christopher-columbus-statue-ohio-removed/

You're starting to sound like the old man screaming at the little kids to "get off my lawn!"

So you want to throw out THREE surveys that all said the same thing, just because you or somebody else claims that gee maybe, could be, might have happened there is a tiny chance somebody they surveyed was not 100 percent pure Native American.

No. I am saying I am referring to someone who may know more than me on the subject.

if you didn't notice I said you or somebody else.

I thought the threshold for legitimate Native American status was 1/1024th....