DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus ‘It was like being preyed upon’: Portland protesters say federal officers in unmarked vans are detaining them

Also, lets get off the Ohio Sate House protests and stay on topic.

To ask a more general question, all these protests and violence seem to be born out of anger. Where is all this anger coming from? I know some of it is from police brutality and equality, but is that really the only source for this?

this is a serious question, can anyone help help fill me in on what they think its from? Think of this as an olive branch, help fill in the ones on right where this anger is coming from.

At the end of the day, we are all people. there has to be some common ground somewhere.

I want to add to that last post because DC mentioned other cities. Chicago's mayor is a piece of crap, but the Police Chief, who is black, actually asked for federal troops to be sent to the city in order to help him combat the travesties going on there.

An AR-15 isn't an assault rifle though. its just a run of the mill semi-auto. An assault rifle is a rifle that has "Fully automatic fire or 3 round burst fire" of which an Ar-15 doesn't have, nor is it even legal to own a fully automatic rifle or a 3 round burst one. the Ar-15 is over rated by the media, .223 is a hunting round, and most Ar-15 you can buy are inferior to anything the military has. they are just a sporting rifle that looks cool.

Look, i grew up around guns my whole life. My dad was a 1950's war veteran, so seeing someone walking around with a rifle doesn't bother me at all. Back when I was in high school way back in the day, we all had semi-autos in the gun rack of our vehicles, the principal even came out and asked to see my gun, looked it over, checked the action, shouldered it, call it a nice gun, handed it back to me, and back in the truck it went, no one bated an eye lash...all of us went hunting everyday after school and rifles or shotguns in folks trucks were common. today, they would have called a SWAT team on us and had us arrested, this is how far society has sunk.

The media has conditioned people to be afraid of firearms for irrational reasons. You have NOTHING to fear from a legal licensed firearm owner. none of us are out to hurt anyone, and we sure don't go looking for confrontation.

You have nothing to fear from the majority of legal gun owners.

An honest question, your scared of a private citizen carrying an Ar-15 around the state house, yet your perfectly fine if its the police or the military?

Look, the left also espouses that none of us should be allowed to own guns, that only the government and military should owns guns(that's been the Dems platform for 20 years)

Yet, here we are everyone complaining that the police and government is out of control. Yet you folks still want gun control? Help me understand.

the left wants insane gun control, yet is perfectly ok with the government and police having guns, and now your protesting and rioting because the police and government(who you all think should be the only ones with guns) are not treating you faily so you protest and riot

Help me here...this is some serious cognitive dissonance

Help me understand why your still railing against 2A

So you promote government extortion. Wonderful.

"Do what we say or else!"

Yeah, I've seen you say that before. You know as well as I do that's not the impact and belief that instills fear when people dressed in camo are walking into a state house or holding a rally carrying those weapons.

Seems that is the method of the rioters.

According to you they are terrible. Yet now you promote using the same tactics?

And let me ask you this, how do the rioters, not the protestors which you never seem to mention, have any control funds that go to the poor and education in a city?

It seems you are promoting neglecting the poor and taking away money for education from those who need it most because local governments don't want the federal government involved with their local issues.

And here you used to be for states rights. I guess any excuse is better than no excuse to abandon a principal you once stood for.

Can't speak for Ohio but in NC it's illegal to carry (open or concealed) in a state or federal government building. If you have a CC you can leave the gun locked in your car on the premises. TIf you don't have a CC it's illegal to even have it in your car.

So the moment they walked into the building in Raleigh, through the metal detectors, what they were doing was illegal. The authorities would have been within their rights to have them removed and charged.

Whether or not they were threatening anybody.. that's a matter of debate but it's not hard to see why somebody would view a bunch of people carrying large guns, with their faces covered, in a government building, where they are not allowed to be as a threat.

Its the same in Ohio. It would be illegal for them to actually enter the building with any weapon concealed or not. Its my understanding however that they did not actually enter the building, at least in Ohio. I am not sure about other states.

I agree though, if they entered the building, its illegal, charge them

Look, I get everyone grew up in different backgrounds. No one should be scared. In this case education in paramount.

I guess everyone fear level is different. As long as they were not carelessly pointing the muzzle at me, I personally wouldn't even care about it. Now if they were carelessly swinging the muzzle around pointing it at me, yes I would be scared and leave.

iI know in Ohio thats a big no, no. you can't enter any state or Federal building with a weapon of any kind, thats a felony.

PitDawg, I just found out, what went on in Michigan is "Legal"



As you can see there, under Michigan Law, the State House was NOT a defined prohibited firearm zone by law. So technically, them entering the State House armed was legal. I think that's nuts mind you, but I don't write the laws in Michigan. In Ohio thats illegal AF which is why they didn't do it here.

this also means all those Representatives and Government Employees in Michigan can carry guns on them in the state house.

Wow

I have to admit, I see a lot of open carry in NC and none of it bothers me. I see a lot of people at the range with all manner of guns big and small. I see black men and women, white men and women, all ages and sizes and if the gun is safely secured and they look like they know how to handle it. It's never bothered me. the one time I was ever uneasy was a dude at a Sheetz who was ahead of me in line and reached into his back pocket to get his wallet and his shirt lifted up and he had it tucked inside his belt all gangsta style..

All of that said, a whole bunch of people with their faces covered carrying big guns to a government protest.. yea, it would make me feel a bit uneasy. It only takes one trigger happy person, could be a protestor, could be an officer, could even be an accident.. and suddenly you've got a battlefield.. and that's not something I want to risk.

You and DC... GET OFF MY LAWN!

Sometimes what's right and wrong isn't about what's legal or illegal.

As for guns, I own a lot of them. All kinds of guns. Guns don't bother me. I don't fear guns.

But the way I was raised you do not use guns as a weapon of fear upon others. You don't walk the streets carrying a long gun "just to prove a point". And you know as well as I do that intimidates and frightens a lot of people.

You see, I don't wish for my gun rights to be eroded. I'm fully aware that these type of demonstrations only promote fear and help those wishing to impose on our rights. It is a weapon the far left will use against us in the future. I'm not going to help supply them with weapons they will use to infringe upon my rights.

You see it now with the protests. There are a minority of the protestors which are violent and destructive. It's those that the far right wish to focus on. They are used as weapons by the right to ignore the actual message being sent and used to label them all as violent and criminals. It's far from the truth.

That's just how it works. I don't support the criminal element within those protests. I do support the message of the protests in regards to ending police brutality. I support those that peacefully protest for their cause. It is no less of a constitutional right than our gun rights are. Making excuses not to support the peaceful protestors because there are violent people amongst them is no less wrong than using mass murders and mass shootings as a weapon against gun rights. In both cases those are two different things and most who wish to be honest understand the difference.

The same thing goes for gun rights. I support gun rights but not those who walk around in cities carrying what society labels as assault rifles to try and make a point.

They undermine the cause of gun rights no less that the violence undermines the BLM movement.

I'm not speaking in terms of legality here. I'm speaking in terms of the actual impact each of these things have.

NOBODY believes that the show of arms at the statehouses was anything other than an intimidation tactic. The big bad 2A crowd was just protesting the lock downs doesn't explain the need to bring their guns. They made lawmakers afraid for their personal safety. If they were black protesters, heads would have been busted and people taken to jail, period. But these guys got the Bundy treatment when they acted like thugs.

People on the far left own guns too. Rumor even has it that since the statehouse stormings the left has been very actively arming. Blacks have been actively arming too. The 2A crowd now has leftist/protester counterparts taking to the streets with their guns. Wouldn't we all be better off leaving guns out of it?

I agree with you PitDawg 100%

I think what those idiots done was irresponsible and reckless and I want nothing to do with it. I own quite a few firearms myself and I was always taught about responsibility.

If my dad was still alive, he would not have thought much about those guys carrying guns into the state house either just like i didn't think much of it.

Like you, I don't want my gun rights eroded away by morons like those guys either.

I think it crazy they could do that legally, but I also agree that just because something is legal doesn't mean you do it.

Those guys did no one any favors doing what they done.

Honestly, I just wish all the police brutality issues would be resolved. It needs to be, its long overdue.

Thanks for clarifying where I wasn't sure on the rules/regs around carrying in federal buildings. I think I was clear about where I was coming from and where I wasn't sure about the facts around my comments. Again, thanks for posting those links.

It's a fair point about the difficulty in proving what the statehouse protesters did was brandishing. I'm not sure how openly showing firearms during a protest isn't supposed to be anything other than using it for intimidation purposes, but that's my opinion. Also, in my earlier post I was thinking about those 2A protests where you had the clowns in Kentucky who got ALL dressed up and protest inside a federal building down there. They went full-on tacticool and looked like a paramilitary force. You'll never convince me stuff like that isn't 'brandishing'.

I've been promoting they arm themselves for a long time now. With much conflict from the far right on that stance.

And as much as I hate to break it to you, if the left is arming themselves it makes them pro 2A people too. As much as I get branded a leftist on this board I've always supported the second amendment and always will.

Would we all be better off leaving guns out of it? Of course we would. But one side has made it clear they will be carrying theirs on the streets of America and I will never put myself in the position of being a victim. I just wasn't raised that way.

Federal officers in Portland may have been permanently blinded by lasers, officials say

At least three federal officers in Portland may not recover their vision after earlier this week demonstrators, who have shown up in crowds of over 1,000 for more than 50 consecutive nights, shined lasers in their eyes and threw fireworks at a federal courthouse, officials said.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-riots-federal-officers-blinded-lasers-fireworks-doxed

I support the right to own guns and hunt. I don't support the right to intimidate others with assault rifles in hand. I don't support the 2a crew thuggery and all the talk about a civil war. And I don't support the need for huge capacity semi auto rifles that look like they belong in a war zone being bought/used by civilians. Make them look like hunting rifles or restrict the selling of them IMHO.

You mean the kind that people shine in their cats eyes for years? I love the "may have" part of your headline.

Comprehension alert.

They are currently blind and it may be permanent.

Pit, the protest movement is over once rioting and looting take place. That is the bottom line.

I am all for states rights when the cause is right. Allowing cities and personal property to be destroyed isn't the right cause.

Why are you being so dim on this matter?

If people were sitting around, lighting candles, laying flowers, having civilized discourse, no problem.

Once you start blocking traffic, burning and breaking things, it needs to be stopped. That is no longer a protest.

The First Amendment allows the right for people to assemble in protest. It also says "peaceful" protest. There have also been several Supreme Court decisions at do allow governments to regulate when, where, and how people protest. They can require permit. In this case, this is a breaking news event, though maybe not so breaking anymore, so a permit isn't required, but it still needs to remain peaceful. There is a difference between a protest and a riot.

As an example, 500 people can't go out and block I-75 by standing or blocking the road in some manner. Government can stop that. They can stop looting and burning. That infringes on other peoples rights.


I am sure 80% of the people in this thing are indeed there with peaceful intent. The problem is the other 20%. Maybe it is 90% and 10%, but I am sure your Mama and Daddy lectured you when you were a young punk (figure of speech, I was one as well) you need to pick your company wisely because if they act up, you are going to be lumped in...guilt by association.

You have some age on you. You aren't stupid.

I know I am right here, so I really don't have anything else to say.

j/c:

It isn't possible, but I wish we could just warden off land and send all the radicals on both sides to that part of the country and let them do their thing.

I have no idea how many of them there are, but maybe we could give them Texas and NM? Or maybe Montana and Idaho? Maybe shove them up into the the NW corner?

Send the alt-right there. The Antifa there. The avid members of BLM. Send the white supremacists there. Let them fight their hateful and violent wars.

Leave honest, hard-working, lawful citizens alone.

I'm very sick of the divisive idiots who spread their hateful messages day after day.

Why all western states?

Montana is beautiful. No reason to spoil that.

I like Montana. I married one of the 123 women from Idaho. She is my Idaho..ok, bad joke, but I have been saying it for a long time now...she cracks a half ass smile and just shakes her head, like "my husband is an idiot".

I am really not, but can act like one every now and again.

LOL..........sorry dawg. They are far away from me. Plus, those areas have more open land.

And obviously, the comments were mostly in jest. But, I really do wish we could rid ourselves of all the hateful souls who comprise the political and social groups. Y'all go kill each other and let the rest of us live in peace.

What was that movie, Manhattan Island because a prison? Do that.



Escape from Manhattan?

lamp's online. Maybe we can send them all to Canada. LOL

The Brits did it w/Australia.

No bigger Haggard fan than I.

Just don’t send them to a state that borders on Canada. We don’t need your crazy crap anywhere near here. If I prayed, I’d pray for America, and that’s not me taking a shot at the U.S.

2020 is by far the worst year I’ve ever experienced, and I’ve seen 53 of them.

Edit: I wrote that post before you tried to drag Canada into this.

Wait until you read my follow-up post, bro. LOL

I love that song - an older dude I used to know was a country singer, and used to play that one.

Class of '85, eh?

Yep.

Same here.

Good Questions

Putting aside BLM protesters and focusing just on the violent and out of control mobs because I don't think it is fair to lump them together at this point...

I don't think there is any more anger than before. I think it is a generational difference in how we deal with problems and express our anger. Most of the people that are participating in the violent behaviors are young adults. There is absolutely nothing unique in their politics from previous generations. When I was young through the 80s and 90s, the same political issues existed: police brutality, Israel v. Palestine, abortion, gay rights, etc... In fact, one of the greatest ironies of these protests is that it mainly consist of millennial accusing institutions run by baby boomers of being racist. Say what you will about boomers, but that generation has lived through and invested more to bring about change in the name of racial equality than any before it.

The difference we are seeing now is that large numbers of this younger generation appear to be okay with using violence, intimidation, and any other number of tactics to get what they want. That is concerning. I don't know what we do about this problem other than arrest them and allow them to spend some time in a correctional facility. Letting them off the hook will clearly only make the problem worse as we have demonstrated that increasing restraint on law enforcement has only emboldened them. Most of these kids are not used to being punished. Their parents bribed them with treats and toys in order to get them to behave when they were young. This behavior is just a result of an incentive system that has been put in place for their entire upbringing and this is the predictable behavior of raising children that never have had to face consequences for their actions. Tantrums are rewarded with bribes.

They have learned that they can do anything that they want and the grown-ups will make sure that they never get physically punished, and that is exactly how this has played out. Cops are literally being ordered to stand and watch while watching stores get looted, or stand and do nothing while projectiles are being thrown at them.

I don't believe that searching for common ground is a viable means of stopping the behavior because it serves as a reward for bad behavior.