DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Indians 2020 (continued)

Curious to see what they do in the off season with the All-Star outfield ??

j/c...

First on my list of things I could do without ever hearing again: "It is what it is.".

I agree that Lindor, Santana, and Hernandez are gone, and maybe Hand too. But I'd be stunned if they traded Ramirez because of his team-friendly contract. He's not a free agent until 2024, and he'll make $35M total over the next 3 years, which is great value given his production.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-indians/jose-ramirez-14106/

There’s certainly a good chance they keep Ramirez around. His final two years of his deal are club options.

I pointed him out as a possibility, because if you’re entering a rebuild, will the Indians FO see the point in keeping Ramirez around or max out his trade value?

I think that with the starting pitching staff remaining intact for a few more years, they will want to keep some offensive firepower around. If the trade for Lindor can bring a couple viable bats at OF and SS (or 2B), I could still see them contending in the division. Probably not good enough for a deep playoff run, but they could still reach the post season.

Ramirez’s value will never be higher. They could get a ton for him.

Welp...

I feel a fire sale coming on. This playoff beatdown doesn't encourage my hopes for next year.

I wonder how much Lindor and Ramirez might bring. I like them, but I don't see us being less inept against good clubs.

The Indians have made offers .... reportedly above market value offers, for Frankie over the years. He has turned them all down. The Indians are not going to pay anyone $40 million. It just cannot be done in Cleveland. I think that's probably Frankie's number. Now, whether he gets that or not ... who knows.

I would not be surprised to see us bring Hernandez back, if we can do so on a moderate contract like he had this year.

I have read where the Indians front office types have said that Jose will not be traded. We'll see though.

Can’t and don’t want to are not the same thing.

#SellTheTeamLarry

The entire AL Central playoff contingent, Indians, Twins, and White Sox, and all eliminated in the 1st round. These 3 teams went a combined 1-6, with the Sox having the lone victory.

Not a good showing.

Indians, biggest chocks in sports history.

I always tell people that the Indians lost to the Cubs in 7 games, and in the 7th game, they lost in extras. Crushing right?

I know Cleveland fans realize it, but since they aren't the red sox, cubs, or yankees, nobody else really does. They were actually somehow closer in '97, when they were on the mound in the 9th inning of game 7 with a lead.

They have lost two world series in extra innings of game 7, that is remarkable.

j/c:

Good on us !

How do you think the offeseason goes? This is my $.02.

1. Trade Lindor to the Dodgers for Gavin Lux and Dustin May.
2. Re-sign Caeser Hernandez
3. Decline option on Carlos Santana
4. Decline option on Brad Hand
5. Sign the best RF/OF with the money you save from Lindor/Santana/Hand
6. CUT Adam Cimber

Here’s my lineup:
1. Caeser Hernandez, 2B
2. Gavin Lux, SS
3. Jose Ramirez, 3B
4. Franmil Reyes, DH
5. Joc Pederson, RF, just throwing his name out there
6. Josh Naylor, LF
7. Bobby Bradley, 1B
8. Roberto Perez, C
9. Oscar Mercado, CF

Pitchers:
1. Shane Bieber
2. Carlos Carrasco
3. Zach Plesac
4. Aaron Civale
5. Dustin May

Bullpen:
Nick Wittgren
Emmanuel Clase
James Karinchak, him or Clase close.

Reading this makes me believe we'll be watching a Triple A team next year....

THE BLEAK FINANCIALS

Can the Indians bring any of them back at a bargain rate?

Listen to Antonetti, then decide:

“The reality of the finances in baseball for 2020 was the industry lost billions of dollars. And as a team, we lost tens of millions of dollars, more than we expected. So that puts us in a really difficult financial position that will take us years to recover from.”

Yes, it’s bad, at least from the Indians’ perspective.

“It’s a real cash loss and we had to borrow a lot of money to be able to fund it," added Antonetti.

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2020/10/...erry-pluto.html

The Dodgers aren’t giving up two very good young players on cheap contracts for one year of Lindor.

If the Indians trade Lindor they aren’t putting the money back into the team, they are putting the money into their pockets.

Of course Lindor would sign a monster deal with LA.

So they’re cheaper than we even thought?

Or more broke than we thought.

They are literally billionaires.

The value of the franchise is not necessarily liquid. They could borrow against its equity value or they could sell it, but that is not the same thing as having the available funds that you are suggesting they have to use for player salaries.

Correct. On paper, my wife and I are worth a bit over a million. Good for our kids, if we die. In reality, only a percentage is liquid assets.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/s...o-rule-baseball

They can afford Brad Hand. They want to make money (which is their right).

This is still only your opinion, absent any knowledge of their debt circumstance. No one knows the whole story without knowing what financial challlenges they have faced in the past year and are facing in the next year.

Weren't people complaining about having Hand ON the roster for the majority of the last season?

Indians decline options on Brad Hand, Carlos Santana, Domingo Santana

ESPN
Oct 30, 2020

CLEVELAND -- The Cleveland Indians have declined contract options on Brad Hand, first baseman Carlos Santana and outfielder Domingo Santana for next season, moves that cut $30.75 million from the team's projected 2021 payroll.

The club exercised its $5.5 million option for catcher Roberto Perez, who has been exemplary in handling one of the American League's best pitching staffs.

Hand's option was worth $10 million, Carlos Santana's was for $17.5 million and Domingo Santana's $5 million for next season. The team will pay buyouts of $1 million to Hand, $500,000 to Carlos Santana and $250,000 to Domingo Santana. All three become free agents.

Cleveland had placed Hand on outright waivers Thursday, hoping another team might claim him so it could avoid the buyout.

Indians president Chris Antonetti had pointed toward a substantial cut in payroll earlier this month due to the team's financial hit caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. MLB teams were not permitted to have fans at game in 2020.

Hand was acquired from the San Diego Padres at the trading deadline in 2018. In two-plus seasons with Cleveland, he had 58 saves and a 2.78 ERA in 111 games. The left-hander went 2-1 with a 2.06 ERA and went 16-for-16 in save chances during the 2020 regular season.

Carlos Santana struggled in his second season back in Cleveland after leaving as a free agent in 2018. The switch-hitter batted a career-low .199 with eight homers and 30 RBIs in 60 games.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/3022...domingo-santana

On keeping Roberto Perez, trying to trade Brad Hand and other Cleveland Indians’ quick hits

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2020/10/...quick-hits.html


By Paul Hoynes, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Indians said goodbye to first baseman Carlos Santana and closer Brad Hand, two veterans who have performed well for them, on Friday. The reason was clear -- money.

They declined to exercise the 2021 clubs options for Santana and Hand because Santana would have made $17.5 million and Hand $10 million. Santana had a down year in 2020, but Hand, under normal circumstances, was far from overpriced. Especially since he led the big leagues with 16 saves in 16 chances during the 60-game season.

But these are not normal circumstances with MLB suffering operations losses, accord to Commissioner Rob Manfred, of between $2.8 billion and $3 billion because the pandemic which limited the season 60 games without fans. Manfred, in a recent interview, said teams took on over $8 billion in loans to get through the season.

The Indians did exercise catcher Roberto Perez’s 2021 option worth $5.5 million. When asked why, Antonetti told reporters Friday night on a Zoom call: “We continue to believe Roberto is one of the best defensive catchers in baseball and a key leader on our team. We’re excited to have him back as a key component for us and we’ve seen the difference he can make when he’s behind the plate and leading a pitching staff.”

Perez, a Gold Glove winner last year, is a finalist against this season. BIS (Baseball Info Solutions) awarded his second straight Field Bible award on Wednesday as the top defensive catcher in the big leagues.

Offensively, he was a non-factor this year after injuring his right shoulder in the season opener after hitting a career bigh 24 homers in2019. Antonetti says he’s fully recovered.

Here are some additional quick hits Antonetti:

* The Indians tried to trade Hand before declining his option, but couldn’t find a partner.

“With Brad it was a really difficult decision,” said Antonetti. “He’s been such a critical part of our team for the last few seasons. . .In the end, we did take some time to explore the trade market for Brad and weren’t able to find a fit for him. That led to the decision to decline the option. Again, a very difficult decision.”

The three-time All-Star, in 2 1/2 seasons with the Indians, went 8-6 with a 2.78 ERA. He finished 86 of 111 appearances, converting 89% (58-for-65) of his save chances. He averaged 13 strikeouts and 2.9 walks per nine innings. HIs ERA+ in 2020 was 226, when the league average was 100.

* Santana has played 10 plus seasons in the big leagues. He’s spent nine of them with the Indians playing first base, catcher, third and some outfield. He ranks second in team history with 881 walks and is tied for fifth with Hal Trosky with 216 home runs.

This year may have been his worst as an Indian, but would the Indians bring him back at a reduced rate? Antonetti said Santana probably needs time to study his options as do the Indians, but it sounds like the door would be open.

“We’ll stay in touch because as you know Carlos is near and dear to our hearts and has been such a huge part of our team for the better part of the last decade at this point,” said Antonetti. “He has fans throughout the organization on the coaching staff, in the clubhouse, in the front office. Everyone to a person loves Carlos and would love to have him continue to be part of the Indians family.”

* When asked about the vacancy at first base, Antonetti said the Indians current options are Jake Bauers, Josh Naylor and Bobby Bradley.

* Antonetti said manager Terry Francona has been recovering well from a difficult season in which health problems limited him to 14 games in the dugout.

“He’s back in Tucson continuing his rehabilitation, primarily focused on his hip, which he’s battled on and off for the last few years,” said Antonetti. “He’s moving around, swimming most days. He enjoys being out in the warmth and the sun in Tucson. He’s had a good few weeks since the season ended.”

Antonetti said Francona is encouraged about his prospects of managing next year.

* Top prospect Third baseman Nolan Jones is just ending Instructional League in Goodyear, Ariz. with about 50 other Indians minor leaguers. The Indians are reluctant to move third baseman Jose Ramirez so Jones has been playing some outfield.

Jones playing time has beens somewhat limited because of the number of players in camp. Antonetti estimated he’s had “35 or so plate appearances, but I might be a little off.”

“We’ve been playing games regularly but we have a lot of guys out there and we’re trying to allocate playing time among all of them,” he said. “He’s doing well. Nolan is such a great athlete, I know he’s a big, physical guy, but as a former hockey player I feel like he does have the athleticism and versatility to play other positions if that’s the best fit on the team. We’ve continued to emphasize with him that athleticism over the course of the winter.”

Jones was part of the 60-player pool for the just completed shortened season. He spent the majority of his time at the alternate training site at Classic Park in Eastlake.

* Antonetti confirmed that bench coach Brad Mills will not be rejoining the coaching staff next season. He added that he’ll talk to Mills about another role in the organization if he’s interested.

As for the coaching staff in general, Antonetti said, “We expect the rest of our coaching staff to return, but we still have to figure out exactly how we configure it.”

Why I hate trading FOR starting pitching ...

If only we had the same success in developing offense, remaining in contention for more than three years, and actually spending money rather than worrying about how much profit we flip by spending less...

The Indians make a profit??

José Ramírez ended in second place in the MVP votes this year. Shane Bieber ended in fourth. What a squad.

Hard to argue with Abreu's stats ... 19 HR, 60 RBI, .317 BA.

Yup.

Since we don't spend, Dolan makes a profit on the team each and every year.