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FYI - I'm sorry if I missed this already being discussed, but I heard that Sokolowski's closed because of the pandemic. That's a real shame.

Last edited by dawglover05; 10/15/20 03:33 PM.

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Guidelines do not mean staying locked up in your house. They require common sense. Like not having gatherings of 10,000 people with no social distancing and few wearing a mask.

Every expert worth their salt tells us that safety guidelines help. They all tell us it will cut down on infections and deaths.

I'm glad those within your circle recovered well. But there are in excess of 215,000 Americans who have died from it. I'm sure they knew a lot of people too.


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Originally Posted By: dawglover05
FYI - I'm sorry if I missed this already being discussed, but I heard that Sokolowski's closed because of the pandemic. That's a real shame.


No doubt. That was a real bummer to read that after being open for 97 years. Such a great place.

However, there is a chance it still makes a comeback...

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We are doing weekly covid tests now. Results in 48 hours or less. As of last night the prison I work in had 0 positives. But with visits starting up again, workers going out to work, and bringing in new inmates starting this week, I think that will change soon.

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Hoping things go well for you.


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Stay safe, bro.


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j/c

Coronavirus: Hospitalized virus patients at ‘all-time high’ DeWine says

Ohio is at an all-time high for hospitalized coronavirus patients, Gov. Mike DeWine said Tuesday.

There have been 18,433 hospitalizations reported in Ohio throughout the pandemic, including 198 reported Tuesday, according to the Ohio Department of Health. There are 1,456 COVID-19 patients in Ohio’s hospitals, including 459 in southwest Ohio.

“We have no indication that we’ve plateaued out at all,” DeWine said. “We’re not at the point where any of our hospitals are overflowing, but our trend line is not good.”

Ohio has 82 counties with a high incidence of coronavirus spread, meaning a county has more than 100 cases per 100,000 people.

“As you can see, this virus is everywhere, and it is spreading,” the governor said. “This community spread endangers our schools, our nursing homes, and our hospitals.”

DeWine called for Ohioans to go back to the basics: wearing face masks, social distancing and avoiding large gatherings.

“We are Ohioans, we always come together," he said.

He asked that people living in high incidence counties reconsider attending gatherings of any size and to wear masks inside and outside where social distancing isn’t possible.

The governor also called on county leaders to double down on efforts to slow the spread of the virus. DeWine said his team will meet with county leaders via Zoom to discuss what each community is doing and what it can do in the future. The meetings will start with counties on the level 4 watch list, Clark, Cuyahoga and Hamilton, and then by counties with the highest incidence rate.

“Our goal will be to bring people together to learn what we can do to help the community, and for the community to chart a course to safely get them through this winter,” he said.

More than 2,500 cases of coronavirus were reported in Ohio Tuesday, bringing the total to 202,740, according to the ODH.

Ohio has doubled its positivity rate in the last month. As of Sunday, the state’s seven-day positivity rate average is 5.7% compared to 2.8% on Sept. 25.

On Monday, Ohio broke 200,000 total cases of coronavirus. The state added 2,116 cases, bringing the total to 200,231.

Over the weekend the governor called for Ohioans to come together to slow the spread of the virus.

“We’re seeing in Ohio a huge increase in cases - much more than we saw in the spring and summer,” DeWine said. “Ohioans rallied together two other times, and I’m asking them to rally again now.”

He noted that though small events, such as birthday parties, bonfires, sleepovers and family get-togethers, seem innocent, they’re helping spread coronavirus.

“What’s so dangerous is that some people are carriers but don’t know it,” the governor said.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/cor...JIMQOBWEZ2UFDI/


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https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/...6u2cspQg4xuO5d0



Nurses Make Up Most Hospitalized Coronavirus Health Care Workers, CDC Finds


MOST OF THE HEALTH CARE workers hospitalized with the coronavirus are nurses, according to a new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report.
The report found that nearly 6% of all patients hospitalized with COVID-19 were health care workers, with 36.3% of those patients being nurses. More than two-thirds, 67.4%, had direct patient contact and more than 4% of the health care workers who were hospitalized died....


As a nurse this is why I plead that everybody just wear a damned mask, stay distanced, stay home when able, and stay diligent.
I haven’t hugged anybody except my girlfriend since March. I haven’t seen my family in over a year now... and don’t expect to be able to travel home until likely 2022. I don’t get to live in denial if not facing this. I get no break from it. No breathing room. No respite.
I know it sucks to have this dragging out. Be diligent. If not for yourself. For others.


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Thanks for all you do for others as a nurse bro thumbsup I for one respect and look up to you for that. My wife has covid right now and we are quarantined now. I am having the mask argument right now on facebook. His response as to why he won't wear a mask and bashes the hell out of anybody that does.

"I hate useless people pushing useless platitudes to make people feel like they’re doing something. Following their arbitrary rules and orders makes us robots, sheep, cattle."


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Somehow there are people who feel their personal freedom mean that gives them the right to infect and possibly kill other Americans. We have freedom of speech but we can't yell fire in a theater or scream bomb on an airplane.

Endangering others is not anyone's right.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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He may be the 2nd person I ever deleated on facebook.


I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I've been doing a wholotta housecleaning lately. I'm not the slightest bit sentimental about it, either- even if they and I go back decades.


"You crossed a line. My line. You are not the person I thought you were, and the person I see now isn't welcome in my life. I'm done with you. Please lose my phone number."

Haven't lost a wink of sleep.


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IS that why you are not in my friends list any more?... tsktsk


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Not wearing a mask is inexcusable. Thankfully, the two counties that I frequent mandate masks. It's not optional when you enter a commercial facility. That eliminates a lot of jerks. Of course, some people pull them down, but for the most part, people comply w/the mandate.

I think that erring on the side of caution is the way to go. Put others ahead of yourself. Be safe. Be responsible. Be kind.

On the other hand, I have seen atrocities that I can not and will not forgive. People are actually wishing for large groups of people to die because of their political/social beliefs. I can not and will not accept that under any circumstances. I have witnessed a ton of lies, false statements, partial truths, bullying, etc, etc all in the name of one's political/social ideologies. Instead of people uniting to fight this dreadful virus, people are using it to further their own preferences on certain issues.

Bridges have been burned. Friends have become adversaries. I do lose some sleep over that. It won't change my feelings on what is right or wrong, but it does sadden me that so many have chosen to take the low road and have turned their back on true friends.

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Totally respect what you just said. My only line is this mask thing. If they can't bring themselves to pull along with all of us, then they are not the kind of people I want in my circle. You have to be some kind of stupid/arrogant/willfully oppositional to reject the logic, reason, common sense- and all those freakin' science classes you were forced to take in HS

I have close family who refuse to wear face coverings when they go to church twice each Sunday. They post group portraits on fb- none are protected from each other. They are consciously doing this with real intent. They have openly said that they believe this is the way they should live, because Jesus will protect them. They are citizens of Christ's community before they are citizens of the USA. They have drawn their line, and they are doing this with real purpose.

I simply cannot condone or be a part of something like this. I just told them that it might be 2-3 years before we ever get to see each other again, because I'm following the protocol- and their behavior is prolonging the crisis. They seem to be fine with that. So I am, too.

.02



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Totally agree w/that part. Everyone should wear a mask. I get that some people don't think it helps, but put the thoughts of feelings of others ahead of oneself. It's not that hard. Error on the side of caution and be a kind human being.

I am truly saddened by the behavior of Americans during this pandemic. You said early on that it was going to "reveal character." It certainly has.

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They had no answer when I asked them what advice Jesus would give in regards to protecting others.

That's why I put they asses on hold.


Come back when you can talk sense.
I prefer it not be "in tongues," too.


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You know that I am in your corner Port.

Thanks again for all you and your colleagues do.

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j/c

I wear a mask. Have since asked to.

Let me back up a bit - I got banned 5 or 6 days ago. I was tired of 2 certain people bullying me, imo, over my daughter, and my job. "joking" as they say.

My message was "banned for name calling - multiple times" Yup. Not even bad names, no swearing etc. (turns out lug nut is a name I guess?)

I got banned after reading crap day after day after day about me, and my political views (from the group that says they accept everyone?) AND, finding out that particular morning that both of my parents were covid positive. Now, I feel I had it back in January, as well as my daughter.

My sis in law had it in July, no problems. My brother in CO is getting over it. Aunt had it, 2 cousins had it.

But, that day, finding out my parents were positive and had been dealing with it for a couple of weeks, well...

Dad was not good, mom seemed fine. Even on Sunday, til my sis called and said "they're not eating. Dad has fallen several times, ...." etc. I had only been at their house to do leaves.

Til yesterday. My dad called and said he was taken mom to the e.r. She couldn't hardly walk. (exactly my fear from last week - they have other health issues.....my fear last week was 'will they make it'?)

Dad had done a good job on the phone with me, downplaying everything.

He, somehow, got mom in the car and drove to the e.r. They took her in, then looked at him, and took him in also. "Phone call: Arch, your mom and dad are both in the e.r."

Dad was discharged shortly after a chest x ray. Mom spent 5 hours there.

So, yeah, my fears from last week for my parents - came true.

Sis and I are alternating meal nights for them. Sucks to see them so week.

I am not asking for 1 iota of sympathy, from ANYONE, especially 2 certain people.

Oh, work has been just fine, for those 2 that mocked me, and have, while being coy about it. Daughter is doing great also, despite having a bad dad.

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Hang in there, arch. I'll be praying for your parents. I will also pray that God gives you and your siblings the strength to help care for your parents.

Don't let the bullies get you down. I think a lot of people see what is going on here. There is a group of them that dominate these two forums and they get away w/much, much worse than others.

It is what it is.

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Sorry to hear that Arch. Our thoughts and prayers are with your parents and you.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

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Is Halloween going to be cancelled?


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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Is Halloween going to be cancelled?


I know my porch light will be off. No vectors are getting an open door from me. Masked or not.


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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Is Halloween going to be cancelled?


I'm not handing out candy because I don't have coworkers to dump the leftovers on this year.


It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Not a fan of trick or treating. All year long we try to teach our kids: don't take candy from strangers. Then we tell tell them when it gets dark enough we are going to as many stranger's houses to take candy from them. Talk about mixed messages.

What else are we teaching them? How to beg (please give me some candy) and how extortion (trick or treat ie give me some candy or I am going to do something to your house.

But that's just me.


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Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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totally agree... just wear the damn mask... it aint that hard...


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New study suggests COVID-19 immunity is 'waning,' researchers say
The Week
Brendan Morrow
,The Week•October 27, 2020


Researchers in the United Kingdom say they've observed a "significant" decline in the percentage of the population with COVID-19 antibodies, potentially pointing to "waning immunity."

Imperial College London scientists in the study found the prevalence of COVID-19 antibodies declined from six percent of the British population in June to 4.4 percent in September, Reuters reports. They came to the conclusion that there has been a "significant decline in the proportion of the population with detectable antibodies" by sending out finger-[censored] tests to a randomly selected group of over 365,000 people in England, according to CNN.

"On the balance of evidence I would say, with what we know for other coronaviruses, it would look as if immunity declines away at the same rate as antibodies decline away, and that this is an indication of waning immunity at the population level," Wendy Barclay, head of Imperial College London's Department of Infectious Disease, said, per Reuters.

The researchers were specifically looking for IgG antibodies in the study, and CNN notes that some other research has suggested "that other types of antibodies may persist longer than IgG does."

But Imperial College London's Helen Ward told BBC News the study suggests that "immunity is waning quite rapidly." Ward added in a statement, "We don't yet know whether this will leave these people at risk of reinfection with the virus that causes COVID-19, but it is essential that everyone continues to follow guidance to reduce the risk to themselves and others."


https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-suggests-covid-19-immunity-124442413.html


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Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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I usually wear a mask in establishments when required but as soon as I hit the parking lot I immediately take it off. That or if I'm outside not close to people there's no need to wear one.

The only thing I don't understand is people have been wearing masks for months, including myself, is there proof it does any good? Like has it helped as a whole or not? I'm just not seeing the effectiveness. I mean, maybe it's hard to see. I'm not sick but it doesn't seem to be doing much good as a whole.

I want verifiable scientific, mathematical proof that since the Mask order was put in for Ohio that it's worked. I've yet to receive or see that data, I don't like that.

Last edited by tastybrownies; 10/28/20 11:47 PM.

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This thing is going to eventually affect us all.

Wife&Me are doing what we can to keep each other safe, but we both realize that it's only a matter of time before we get that phone call. Her fam isn't being particularly diligent about precautions, and my fam seems to treat it like it's not happening at all.

I've already told my sis that we won't be hosting Thanksgiving like we have for decades. I also told her that we won't be attending any gatherings in her neck of the woods, and also that it might be another year or two before we can all get together, face-to-face.

They responded like I'd insulted them.
I don't know how I'll repair the 'fam-damage,' but I do know this:

I'd much rather be forced to to mend relationships, than to mourn lost relationships at funerals I can't attend.

Stay safe. Do what you can for yours.

I'm already sending out all of The Good Stuff I can. Call it thoughts, prayers, whatever.

I want your folks to make it to the other side of this crisis, arch- I really do. I want to see us all make it.

in your corner,
clem.


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Isn't there speculation that the cells have a working memory to make antibodies when they're needed?

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There is, but it isn't verifiable science yet, as far as I have learned.

If others have better data, I'd love to see it.


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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Isn't there speculation that the cells have a working memory to make antibodies when they're needed?


Not an expert - but most for most diseases the number of antibodies decrease a lot as time passes.

For common colds - that tends to mean you can get sick again after some number of months or maybe a year or two.

But the number of antibodies goes down even for Chickenpox (see Figure 1) but people seem to have lifelong immunity there.

http://www.newmicrobiologica.org/PUB/allegati_pdf/2018/2/95.pdf

The only real way to know is to wait and see how many people get reaffected -- but that takes time since nobody got infected more than 10 months ago.


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Sorry to hear that.

This virus is scary and lethal. Glad to hear that they are not in the danger zone.

Damn about an hour ago a huge pine tree came down in a storm and hit my house.

To dark and rainy to see the damage. But it is laying against the deck and is on the roof. Given the tree and where it hit I am lucky not be crushed. It is like ten feet from my bed. I was awake because there was lots of rain and storm noise. Scared the crap out of me.

If that tree had come down at a different angle it would have gone right through the roof.


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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Isn't there speculation that the cells have a working memory to make antibodies when they're needed?


Yes, and I read an article about it yesterday. It had the same basic gist of this article, but it explained that it's not a big deal. The antiebodies fight the virus. The immune cells remember what the virus is and produce new antibodies for it if needed. Basically.

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Not to outright poo-poo the study, but when less than 2% of your population has been confirmed to have had the virus, is a 2% decline in antibodies actually significant at all when you are randomly selecting the subjects? It doesn't seem to me that it would be.

I mean, what's the expected margin of error there?

I would much rather see them doing a study on a known group that has antibodies and tracking how long people continue to have them. This seems like a poorly contrived study.


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... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Most things I've seen say Covid antibodies last three to four months. After that you're open to getting it again.


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GC.
Can I be serious for a second!
gather round.


You all know August 2020, round about 60 days ago, before I kind of got fatigue with the subject, and numbers were still being reported differently.

I had a glance, at numbers, with a calculator, state by state, all across the nation, Just some 60 days ago, and percentage of reported cases, and reported deaths, in each state was, 4%, sometimes 5% sometimes 6or more percent, New Jersey's was High, New Yorks was high.

And at the time, it does not fit with conservative talking heads telling me the death rate of this virus is something 2%, 1% 1 half of one percent or 1 tenth of one percent sometimes they would say.

Because the numbers were right in front of all of us, Ohio, x cases in August and at the same time, x number of deaths, in the state, and the real number was about 4 and a half percent.

This virus, up until even August 2020, was having deaths reported, per cases reported, in each state, were, (now a couple states were really low, a couple in the ones and twos,) but the overall average rate in the states, the several I looked at,
was 5, .. 4,5, 6, or 7 percent, maybe 4-5 is the more accurate.

So last night, on a natl. network newscast I saw, the USA, had , it was an enormous number
8, million 350 thousand, or something, cases.

Well, I got my calculator out, and 4% of that number, is over 300,000, 334,000

The fact the USA is not anywhere near 334,000 deaths, Today! is a testament that the treatments for this disease are becoming more effective.

Even in the last 60 days!

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While you may have a point that is yet to be seen as to how much. Certainly the more we know about the virus the better we should be able to fight it.

One thing happens every time however. People generally don't die from Covid right away. Sometimes they remain in the hospital for an extended period of time before they pass on.

So what we've seen every time, is the death count lag well behind drastic spikes in infections. We're already seeing hospitalizations spike. Next we will get a better idea of how this will impact the death count as the next month or so passes.


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jc

Quote:
Study finds 12% of Orange County residents had coronavirus by summer
Findings suggest virus more widespread but less deadly

A carefully designed study of blood samples from Orange County residents found that 12% had coronavirus antibodies — meaning their immune systems had fought the virus at some point — an infection rate more than seven times higher than official case counts suggest.

That means at least 371,000 people in Orange County have had COVID-19, researchers found.

Rates were highest among Latino residents and low-income adults, and lowest among non-Latino White and Black residents and those earning more than $100,000 a year.

The results also suggest that the virus is extraordinarily contagious and far more widespread than case data indicate, but also that the fatality rate is much lower. Still, it remains higher than the seasonal flu.

What was most surprising among the researchers was how high the seroprevalence of COVID was,” said Tim Bruckner, a study principal and associate professor of public health at UC Irvine. “We had a suspicion there would be more cases if we looked in the overall community rather than just at those asking for testing, but we didn’t understand how widespread it was already.”

The majority of people studied who tested positive had no symptoms, Bruckner said. Focus may fall on so-called “superspreader” events, but the virus really is spreading regularly, quietly, unseen.

While more than 10% of Orange County residents tested over the summer had COVID-19 antibodies, that’s still a long way from “herd immunity,” when so many people have antibodies that the virus runs out of new hosts. Scientists say some 60% to 70% of the population must be immune before infections will fizzle out.

“We are nowhere near herd immunity,” Bruckner said. “The argument that we’re very close and will turn the corner soon isn’t borne out by the data.”

A city-size case load
The prospect that more people have caught coronavirus in Orange County than live in Anaheim, its largest city, didn’t surprise Dr. Matt Zahn, medical director of the county Health Care Agency’s Communicable Disease Control Division.

“That number is simultaneously a very large and very small number,” Zahn said during a news conference Wednesday, Oct. 28.

It’s research-backed evidence of how easily COVID-19 spreads, he said. At the same time, it shows that the virus still has lots of room to proliferate.

For Bernadette Boden-Albala, dean of UC Irvine’s public health program, an expert in social epidemiology and study principal, it also speaks to the fact that there’s huge variability in how people show symptoms, if at all.

“Obviously, we hear about the most severe cases, the hospitalized cases, the deaths, but we have this whole range of asymptomatic and mild symptoms that didn’t get picked up because people didn’t think they were sick and were transmitting the disease,” she said.

“This is really important data to help us think about planning for the future.”

More evidence of health inequity
While data from active infections already show that lower-income and Latino communities are hard hit by infection, the study underscored that in a powerful way.

Latino residents had a prevalence of 17%, and low-income residents were at 15%. That could be due to relatively dense housing conditions and work in settings that don’t allow for physical distancing, the study said.

That tracks with high-volume swab testing in lower-income Latino neighborhoods in Anaheim and Santa Ana.

“In a city like Santa Ana, we were as high as close to 30% positivity,” Boden-Albala said.

The disproportionately high rates of tests returning positive in the county’s hot spots have been tamped down by the Orange County Health Care Agency in partnership with nonprofit groups like Latino Health Access, Boden-Albala said. Such campaigns have brought more testing and resources to neighborhoods where many residents can’t work from home and have little access to health care.

Public health officials on Oct. 6 installed coronavirus disparities tracking into the state’s four-tier pandemic monitoring system, which looks at metrics such as case rates and testing positivity in the state’s 58 counties and determines what can reopen when.

More prevalent, less deadly
Case data — drawn from sick people who wind up at diagnostic testing sites, clinics and hospitals — peg the COVID death rate at about 10% for those 65 and older in Orange County.

“That’s another part of the story that’s very interesting,” Bruckner said. “Clearly, COVID is a killer and I would never want to make light of that. That said, as you count more cases that are asymptomatic and lightly symptomatic, the case fatality rate is going to go down.

“The take-home point is that, depending on the different ways you’d calculate COVID deaths, we’re overestimating deaths in OC between four- to 10-fold.”

Put more simply, the study estimates about one death per thousand infected people for those younger than 65, and about 10 deaths per thousand for those 65 and older.

“Based on our estimates, that means about 1 in 100 adults over 65 who gets COVID dies of it,” Bruckner said. “That’s pretty serious. But it’s not 10 in 100, which is the estimate based on who presents at the clinic.”

Recommendations
The widespread prevalence of COVID in Orange County warrants continued public health measures, the study said: physical distancing, proper and consistent use of face masks, ventilation and hand hygiene.

And, in addition to contact tracing, county health authorities “may want to consider active surveillance of novel infections.” That would involve some 800 to 1,000 tests per week in a representative sample of residents, as well as a targeted component for higher-risk groups or places such as nursing home residents, laborers in high-density settings and highly impacted neighborhoods.

“Such surveillance, unlike clinic- or hospital-based strategies, would provide a less biased estimate of the rate of new SARS-CoV-2 infections,” the study said.

Finally, as fatality rate estimates are several-fold lower, “This updated estimate should inform the broader policy debate in the U.S. regarding the relative benefits and limitations of various SARS-CoV-2 mitigation strategies.”

How it was done
UCI researchers led the project in partnership with the OC Health Care Agency, which provided funding, testing sites and input on the study’s survey methods.

It was designed to be more comprehensive and rigorous than its predecessors, including many more people than were tested in L.A. or Santa Clara counties. Researchers went to the homes of people who couldn’t make it to drive-through sites, with a special eye toward reaching under-served communities, and didn’t initially indicate they’d be offering blood, or serology, tests, to avoid pre-selecting for people who might want them.

Fingers were pricked and blood collected from 2,979 adults from July 10 to Aug. 16, later in the pandemic than similar studies done in Los Angeles and Santa Clara counties in the spring. Researchers at UCI are planning more work on racial and ethnic disparities, geographic hot spots, and tracking people who’ve tested positive over time to see how long immunity lasts.

Neeraj Sood, professor of public policy at the USC Price School for Public Policy and principal investigator for the groundbreaking serology study done by USC and the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health in the spring, said that’s one of the outstanding questions.

“The level of antibodies you have, and how fast they decline, might correlate with how severe your disease was,” said Sood, who’s also planning to study people who’ve tested positive over time in L.A. County. “There’s more and more evidence which suggests seroprevalence declines over time. So even serological testing might be underestimating the true prevalence — we might only be catching infections over the last few months, rather than since the pandemic began.”

A big takeaway from O.C.’s work is that many people had COVID and didn’t know it, supporting the notion that the virus is a silent spreader, said UCI’s Bruckner. “Ongoing public health strategies that relate to the whole population — and not just those who think they’re sick — are warranted,” he said.


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Kroger Pharmacies now have an antibody finger p r i c k test with results in 15 minutes. 25 bucks.


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