DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2020 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 49 Cowboys 38 Baker show me game

Is it that simple?

If so, since he has more losses than wins, is that all you care about?

Baker had probably his worst game since he started starting, but it doesn't matter all that much.

What matters?

The Pass protection really broke down in the 2nd quarter,

The Pass defense really broke down a couple times in the 2nd quarter.

And the run defense caved in the 4th quarter.

These need to be addressed ^.

Baker, they need to let him play, he needs to be unleashed to keep teams respectful.

If I were them, I'd really start practicing that 2 minute offense, anyone think they aren't going to need it coming up sometime soon?

They've basically played 4 games, not needing the 2 minute offense to help them late in the 4th quarter,
this is the NFL, there's going to be a game coming around soon where they'll need it, it's just probabilities.

It’s a podcast from The Athletic. Zac Jackson and Jason Lloyd are the hosts. They were saying that Baker looked like he wanted nothing to do with throwing a pass after the last Dallas touchdown.

Thank God for Odell.

Baker needs a light bulb moment or some type of huge confidence booster. He looks so shaky out there.

Agree for the most part... Although the "Baker puckering up" is pure opinion, based on the last few series it's not far fetched. Can't count the times I was yelling at the TV today (at Baker) asking "What the heck are you doing???"

You see him flinch in the backfield and know the play is broken from that point forward. I really think that is the point where his brain tells him his processor just overheated. He knows he's behind and leaves the pocket because he's more comfortable on the run. It's tough because he does make plays on the run but let's be honest - it's becoming a really bad habit. He just really never looks comfortable in the pocket after 1.75 seconds.

Also not as sharp as the last two weeks today.

Positives: Taking care of the football - 2nd week in a row without an INT after 8 straight.

Also something I was going to mention last week, but people like to pile on when I defend him: he's been throwing low probability throws high since week one. In other words, a lot of high throws are the "throw 'em where only my guy can get 'em" type. I prefer that to "riverboat gambler".

KEEP TAKING CARE OF THE ROCK!

Baker was much better in the pocket his rookie year.

Fair take. I don't think Baker was bad today. I think he did some good things and some bad. I am beginning to wonder more and more about a statement one commentator [Ryan Clark?] made about Baker earlier this year when he said that Baker was a front-runner. As in, he does well when things are going well against poor teams and struggles against good teams when things get tight. I'm not positive that he was right, but there is some evidence of that perhaps being true. I do think Steanski has helped him, though.

I can't see the image,
So I didn't see you add anything,

Do you disagree?
Were you watching the game. UH! now I see a picture of a dog

I just don’t get it.....

You listen to the posts of some and they want him benched or traded.....

I have seen enough to make me want to see him develop in a system.

I don’t care if he puts up 500 yards in a game and the Browns lose.

You play to win the game and we are putting up a ton of points

That is winning football.

Losers keep changing QB’s there is the jersey that proves my point

Agree 100%... And to add to that, we have posters that said Baker needs the season to see what he is and what he can develop into ... and yet since then every game feels like they are trying to frame the discussion into a "Gatcha" moment where they can say - 'see I was right' ... Not a lot of neutrality from some.

I thought the win was great. The hesitation or loss of momentum we suffered wasn't Baker - it was coaching and play calling that got very conservative.

Baker threw some high balls today towards players who had decent coverage - I don't know if (as a poster suggested) he was throwing a ball where only his receiver had a chance to snag it, or if they were simply bad throws that sailed. I tend to think the later because that's what we saw last year. He took off running a 3 times when perhaps he didn't need to - I want to re-watch to see more ... but he also made some beautiful throws, some with nice touch and some with great accuracy into very tight windows. Didn't someone post a PFF stat that indicated Baker had thrown more 'tight window' throws than any other QB in the league? If not I am sure someone can repost and clarify. . . oh - and no picks. And no great plays by WR preventing a pick.

I think the maturation and Stefanskizing of Baker continues and is on track.

Will you please show us examples of those posts? I can't find them.

I thought Baker had good moments, like a bunch of his throws on 3rd down (excluding the big miss to OBJ). He displayed great accuracy on some throws, like the one to Bryant. I actually thought he improved going through his progressions some, as well.

I also thought he still showed some repeated struggles. His pocket presence needs a lot of work. He needs to be improve his accuracy throwing to the sideline.

I'm hoping that last year was a bump in the road for him and that Stefanski is bringing him along methodically to restore his confidence and correct his bad habits.

Here is something from you...

Absurd comparison. Brees throws w/anticipation. Baker does not. Brees reads coverages quickly. Baker does not. Brees understands tendencies. Baker does not. Baker has a much better arm than Brees. Brees has a much bigger football brain than Brees.

They are not even close to being the same player.

Lord don't even check the gameday threads....

What does my statement have to do w/me saying he should be traded or benched?

Good god..... figure out for yourself.....

Good God?

I'll try to make my stance more clear. I do not think Baker should be benched or traded, nor have I ever said he should be.

I do think he is the weak link on the offense right now, but that doesn't mean I want to give up on him.

With that said, I have seen numerous posts saying Odell should be traded or benched.

I don’t dwell on the past. Things that happened then, do not exist in the now.

So, yes, it is that simple.

Here's an interesting stat ...

Judging by the post-game interview, it sounded like Baker was less than pleased that we switched to Marty-ball.

No doubt he is not a top 10 QB right now, but I'd still say pretty confidently that he is a quality starter (comfortably somewhere in the top 2 dozen QB's). I know we all want more but he has only started what, 33 games (with 4 different coaches running 3 different offenses??

And...is everyone just expecting him to audible out of the run when the coach is trying to bleed the clock?


Relax...we are 3-1. Time to get ready for the Colts' Defense.

j/c:

If Baker can calm himself down and just climb the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield every time he feels pressure I think things will start clicking and he has the chance to be a real star.

Totally agree. Obviously that is easier said than done. I don't know if he's ready to be throwing it 40 times a game like you see the top dogs do week in and week out. Would love to see us be able to continue with this rushing attack, while baker settles in and masters the offense.

Brady, Ben, some of these other guys, they didn't come into the league ready to just throw it 40+ times. They both took years to develop into what they are. There's no guarantee Baker ever gets that good, but he's going to have a real chance at it if they can continue to block and run like no other team in the league right now.

We have seen what Baker is. A meh QB, that can lose games more than he wins. He has been the worst QB playing in 3 of the 4 games so far, and vs Washington he was average

Don't think we will pick his 5th year option, he is now a stop gap QB.

Baker is a non issue, he is playing OK has long has we don't ask him to win games...

...but Hue had Deshone Kizer doing it. I'm still SMH over that.

I see him flinch before evacuation -- almost as if there's a glitch in the software. I think this is the point where he knows the play has exceeded his processing speed and he's afraid to make a mistake, while racing his internal clock and expecting pressure.

On one hand, he plays well out of the pocket and throws well on the run; on the other -- it's a bad habit that needs to be broken.

Because he has mitigated costly mistakes, I'm giving him some leeway here, but yes, we definitely need to see progress.

Yes, he needs to fight this urge. Even take a sack or two if that's what it takes.

I read on the OBR Insider (paid site, can't post link) that him not climbing the pocket is driving Stefanski and Van Pelt crazy. He's leaving a lot of yards on the field.

He was much better at this as a rookie. He has regressed in this area which I think is the result of thinking too much and being afraid to make a mistake. He has to get over this if he wants to be the long term answer.

Out of curiosity, who do you think is the weakest link on the offense?

Hilliard, then Hodge, ...

or vice versa works.

In response, to your question,

You can't say "is" and were talking about "was" were talking about either
the last game, (at Dallas)

or the other option,
The conglomerate of the games so far and play going forward.

Baker had excellent games vs. Cincinnati and Washington, that's what we need,

I'd take 250 yards, efficient and a win over more incompletions, more yards and more mistakes that causes a loss.

I think Stephanski is grooming Baker. The running game is taking the pressure off of him to be the one who wins the game. IMO, it is a smart move. The guy has been switching coaches and offenses constantly since being drafted. This offense is a timing and discipline offense. I believe they are letting him grow into it. If he is being a "manager" and we are winning, I'm all for it.

Before I get to your post...….I want to say when I said "weak link," I wasn't talking 3rd and 4th stringers. LOL

Now, to your post.

I agree w/you that the coaching staff is putting Baker in good positions and that that is smart. I also think Baker has been doing pretty good for the most part.

The questions are is what happens when we need him to win games? We all know there will be games that call for the QB to step-up, right? We are not going to dominate everyone by just running and throwing safe passes.

Baker's numbers are good, but have any of you guys watched the breakdowns about how he is missing open receivers when his first read isn't there? Have you not seen stats like 5 of the 9 pressures in last week's game and two of the sacks were on him? Did you not hear comments from guys like Moose Johnson saying how Baker is not seeing open receivers when he moves in the pocket? Did you miss the comments from Zac Johnson and the other dude about Baker not looking like he wanted to pass the ball at the end of the game? I admit that one is shaky, but I made my comment about him puckering up before I heard their comments. I did so because I saw his face and read his body language when Dallas scored again. The drive before that, he missed a wide open OBJ for an easy 6 that would have iced the game. Then, Stefanski calls the end around for OBJ? Why might that be? Do any of you guys really think the Browns could have scored again w/Baker passing the ball? Do you believe that he isn't going to have to step-up in crunch times on several occasions this year in order for us to be a legit playoff team?

I'm not saying he can't do it, but he is going to have to do it at some point. Y'all get that, right?

LOL...…...some will. Some won't.

I'm confused bro. Do you think people don't understand that Baker will have to win some games?

Maybe I'm wrong, but that is the message I am getting from this thread and other threads involving Baker. I keep reading about relying on the running game, Baker's numbers, Stef's plans, etc.

It appears to me that some people are so entrenched in defending Baker that they don't see what others see.

With that said, perhaps Baker gains some confidence and continues to grow and will be able to make plays when we need him to.

Now, let me ask you a question. Let's say OBJ did not elude that tackle for a loss on the last drive. And we are faced w/second and long. How confident would you have been in Baker passing us to picking up enough first downs and/or another score to seal the game?

To answer that last question, I think if OBJ gets blown up on that end-around, people won't forget about the miss right before and start piling on Baker (what I think you're getting at... the miss and how that kind of sums up how, despite him playing well, we can't really rely on him to take this offense to the next level at this time).

I agree, and I was trying to poke at this the day after the game. Dallas sold out to defend the run and we were struggling to make them pay.

I would have NO confidence. I would have just watched a team squander a 27 point lead in ten freaking minutes. My BBS would kick in and say "dude, they actually found a new way to lose, by giving up the largest lead in NFL history". All momentum was on their side and every person wearing brown and orange, on the field and off, was pooping their pants.

I guess what I'm saying is that the indictment would be on the entire team, the entire situation. I can say that I'd rather have Baker than any Browns QB I've watched since the return. I've watched him bail us out of third and longs for two years -- it's actually something he seems to excel at -- so why not a 2nd and 23? If he didn't? I wouldn't leave the game thinking "Man, Baker needs to find a way to win that game."

Baker hasn't shown us the "clutch gene" yet. But I don't feel like he has shown that he doesn't have it either. He is a work in progress. For mere mortals, it takes a little time.

Thanks for answering. I have watched him fall short in quite a few critical situations, such as the late interception against Baltimore in his rookie year or the pick against the Rams last year.

But, I appreciate your answer. I guess we just view him differently and that's okay.

I guess I'm different.

I can see Baker make any and all throws needed for first downs.

He hasn't been put in a clutch position yet, but I can see him make that throw as well.