DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Defund The Police

and it still sucks.

He makes a good point however that the cops should live in the area they work in.

The slogan is still dumb.

How about we just not have a slogan? Like does everything have to sound like a corporate campaign ad?

We got the squad.

Now apparently there’s a “freedom force” in the house to combat the squad.

We got the proud boys. The bugaloo boys or whatever failed boy band group they come up with next.

We got MAGA and antifa.

Good lord this crap is ridiculous. Nobody should ever say that government doesn’t represent the American people, because it absolutely does.

Imma bring back ‘Rough necks’ from starship troopers and see if that catches on.

He makes a great point. While I understand why people are impatient, I do hope the powers that be take the time to listen to people like this (and there are 1000's of them), and take the time to fully understand the problem. Fully understanding the problem is the first step to solving it, but in general we love to skip that step.

THIS.

Yeah, the slogan is polarizing and stupid, and it's easy for the flipside to galvanize their own supporters. I can't stand it. It resembles a stance where you don't want to come to a mutual understanding, but highlight the divide.

It's not a slogan, but if people would just lead with "hey, police should live in the communities where they work for X amount of reasons, and we should devote more resources to mental health experts as co-existing first responders in certain cases where the suspect is known to have something like severe schizophrenia" I think that can get real conversation going, and prevent idiots like Lindsay Graham or Ted Cruz from more easily flipping it to their own narrative.

If you have to take time to sit and explain in detail what your slogan means, you have a terrible slogan.

Anyone who is presumptuous enough try to coin a slogan should first be clever enough to coin one that requires no explanation.

"Defund" was dumb from Day One.

As regards to the slogan, weren’t a lot of people saying the same things about Black Lives Matter?

Yep. I remember James Clyburn saying the moment "Defund the Police" became a slogan, Jaime Harrison was finished in South Carolina. He had been running neck and neck with Graham.

Yes, however trying to compare the two is disingenuous. Let's face it, saying defund the police paints a terrible mental image right from the start.

If people knew the history on how and why the police were established, Inthink everyone would be singing a different tune.

People also need to look at Camden and Newsrd in New Jersey to see how and why defunding actually works.

A partial redistribution of funds does work. But that's a far cry different than what the slogan defund the police suggests.

I’m all for defunding a system built on a history of keeping the poor people oppressed and enforcement of slave patrols.

Whether people agree or disagree with what you're saying here, I think it still points back to Pit's original premise, which is that if you have to take time to explain the meaning behind your slogan, then it's a bad slogan.

I completely understand what you're saying on your end, but the "If" you're adding in here could also be used to say "well, if we had informed voters, then we wouldn't keep voting in all these idiots." It's a big ask to say the least.

We have to take into account the sensationalism that is rampant today. "Defund the police" presents a softball for exploitation from the other side. It's impractical to lead with "Defund the Police" and then provide a history lesson.

I think it needs to be a two-pronged approach. Presenting a well-thought approach built off of common ground that prevents the fringe elements from taking over, while also imparting an education on the current events and historical context which mandate the need for change.

That's great and all, but I suppose you think today's society would move along just fine without any police? That sort of thinking is delusional.

By no means is defunding getting rid of police.

The idea is completely retooling the processes and policies used to keep everyone safe and rehabilitate individuals.

The current system is built within the confines and structures of oppression and punitive measures.

In order to rebuild everything, as much of the original structure must be completely taken apart.

One of my biggest issues with the movement is that there are people who seem to have rational thought within it, like the person depicted in the original video, but that it gets overridden by an extreme message.

It would be like a group saying that people with severe mental health issues shouldn't own a firearm, but their slogan is "No More Guns!"

I think that's a proper analogy. You see, Rocket seems to explain it pretty well, at least to a degree, but what you have is people interviewing some on the street and they say to totally defund the police.

It's a very mixed message depending on who you ask.

Rocket, while we do agree in principal, the devil is in the details. Violent crime does require punitive punishment. However, you can supply rehabilitation at the same time. You say taken apart and I say retooled. Maybe that's just semantics but I don't feel our views are totally inline.

That Is DUMB!
There are whole "areas" with nothing but crack houses and gang members.

I agree. I think in the current environment, every movement has people who are involved without employing a healthy dose of questioning, rational thought, or logic. It's promulgated by the modern "news" and social media. There's enough fear, anger and desperation that too many people are primed to act without thinking, and special interests and politicians are aggravating and exploiting that dynamic.

As a result, we see people looking to have thoughtful discussion on the issues overridden by the verbiage and actions of nutjobs.

Look into how the Nordic countries rehabilitate their violent offenders. Their recidivism rate is some of the lowest in the world.

I've actually seen a documentary on it. If you think their society in general mirrors that of the United states we certainly disagree. This is just one of those where we need to agree to disagree to a point and move on.

Which one do you live in?

Reminding everyone that the “defund this or that’ slogan started with the trump cult calling for defunding “Planned Parenting”.

I’ll keep fighting for rational idea on how to improve American society.

Simply saying “we’re just too different” is defeatist. We need to fight for what’s right and aspire to be the greatest we can be.

Well you must be for abortion being illegal except for the life or health of the mother.

Really, a whatabout?

Sure most posts you make are whatabout. So why should you be aloud to do so while others are not in your eyes?

Please provide factual evidence of whatabouts.

I’ll be waiting for receipts.

I'm not sure who started it but I wish it would end because those who don't give a damn about what it means just twist it to make the left look bad... just like them saying those radical socialist extremist... And it's all because they are to damn stupid to wrap around the true meaning and will do anything to not let things change for the better.

Eat the Rich. ~ There is a slogan for you.

OR

Punch a Nazi in the nose.

or

Just come back to the center and let everything stay the same while corps and oligarchs continue to pillage the wealth of what's left of the middle class... The country is not ready for radical leftist ideas... We can't afford to do that, where does the money come from...

TALK ABOUT STUPID!

Gotta love the party of "let's be in favor of policies that let white people feel like they're woke while we screw everyone over financially".

Sucks we're stuck between corporatism and fascism in our country.

Defund the Police puts the tard in libtard.

I'm one of those people who actually did know all this... and still think it's a poorly-conceived slogan.

You see- I think the slogan should state a cause AND invite conversation/investigation. "Defund the police" only accomplishes one. You are the perfect case in point, Rocket. You are an educator, lifelong learner and inquisitive person. It has been your research that has brought you to this place.

Others will not do any research at all under these present conditions. So for them, the slogan had better inspire, because conversation will be the only source of info for these people. They will not be in a listening mood if the slogan already confronts their current idea of Police.

Which further hammers home my point:

This is America. We have the attention spans of sand fleas. If you have to explain or frame or define to get your message across, you've already lost- no matter how worthy your crusade may be.


My problem has never been the concept. I'm part of the base. The problem has always been marketing/messaging. The folks you are trying to reach only know Camden as a town in NJ. They won't be looking up what you already know.

Check out Preet's latest interview with Jelani Cobb. It couldn't have come at a better time for this thread. He talks specifically about how some of his interviews with cops revealed that THEY were the ones asking to do more specific police work and less conflict resolution/mental health interventions, both areas that occupy way too much time, and are also areas for which they are untrained/undertrained. He also talks about 'reapportionment' initiatives going all the way back to the late 1960's, and how they've worked out.

I agree with the initiative.
I just wish people were smarter about how to use the megaphone.

#shootselfinfoot

The first rule of marketing if it needs explanation, you have failed.

I agree with Pit and others.

It is a terrible slogan.

It makes sense, and I see where you and others are coming from on this.

I may be three decades old, but I guess I’m still a bit naive in thinking that people will actually research and break down what this actually is.

It hurts me a bit that people would just react without actually analyzing; I wish we could expect analysis.

That’s my hangup on this. Why must the slogan change because people refuse to take some intellectual honesty on this.

Why should a slogan change just because the American populace fails to look at this deeper?

Honestly probably showing my privilege here. I’ll defer to those who end up impacted the most in this.

Thanks for the post and insight.

Same goes to Pitt and Swish.

Camden,NJ?
You obviously have never been there,after dark.
I have,it just might be the most the dangerous place a white man has ever ventured into.
Defund the police,hell they should just bulldoze the entire town.

That does equate to defunding their police department.

https://www.tapinto.net/towns/camden/sections/law-and-justice/articles/camden-sees-crime-drop-over-past-decade#:~:text=Camden%20tallied%203%2C305%20total%20crimes,%2C%20representing%20an%208%25%20decrease.