DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jury still out on Frye, Savage in same boat

I agree. That relates back to my comment that is is probably better to have a guy content in his role than having a guy who is good.

The only reason the old vet is content is because he knows he is at the end of the line....who wouldn't want to collect $500,000 to impart a few words of wisdom and possibly take a few snaps every now and then?

If the staff like Anderson or Dorsey enough....sign him to a longer deal because they know the score.

[color:"white"]That's all well and good, but if he's the same guy that I saw in the great NorthWest, he's a stiff, and I don't care how much smarter Savage is than I am. I remember Savage signing another former Rat to play QB for us. He's now out of the league. [/color]

Josh Harris was picked up by Robiskie and was cut by Savage.

That's the only Rat QB we had that's now out of the league.

[color:"white"]Hmmm.........Could be right. Probably are. Then I'll backpedal as fast as I can <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> and try to save it by saying Savage had input in bringing Harris to Baltimore <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

I've never liked what I've seen in Anderson, whether that's college or the few snaps in the pro's, and I'd seen him start numerous games in college. He's big, he's strong, but he can't read defenses and makes horrible decisions.

If Frye doesn't show much the rest of the way, Savage needs to suck it up and sign a veteran QB who has starting experience just in case. By next year, we need to be an 8-8 team. Anything less in the 2nd true year of rebuilding is probably........probably.........a failure. That means it's time to take the backup job more seriously. He didn't sign anyone so that Frye could play without ever having to look over his shoulder. I get that, even if I don't dig it. However, next year is a different story. The landscape changes, the expectations change, Frye will be in his 3rd year and shouldn't be rattled by a veteran QB behind him, and the team needs to have someone in place in case Frye goes down or is ineffective. That isn't a vote of no-confidence in Frye, it's simply smart management.[/color]

I got curious and decided to check out what the FA crop for QBs looks like next year.... not real promising

Matt Schaub, RFA, Atlanta Falcons
Chris Simms, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Rohan Davey, RFA, Arizona Cardinals
Shaun King, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
John Navarre, RFA, Arizona Cardinals
Tim Rattay, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Seneca Wallace, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Anthony Wright, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals

Not alot of seasoned veteran presence there. Its a shame that Carthon's crappy play calling led to Dilfer being run out of town rather than him sticking around to be the mentor as I think was what was intended when we signed him.

[color:"white"]True, but that doesn't take into account the vet's who may not stick with their teams because they are paid to be starters, but have been relegated to backup. Guys like Kurt Warner, Aaron Brooks, Drew Bledsoe, Joey Harrington, and Jake Plummer are guys that come to mind.

I know, I know. Some people are gonna look at that list and go "YUK! I don't want that guy starting on MY Browns team!" but the reality of the situation is that we're talking about a backup QB, not a starter.[/color]

True back atcha Toad... Unfortunately, a list like that still presents problems in my mind.

First off, I think that guys like Bledsoe and Plummer aren;t ready to play the back up/mentor role quite yet. These are guys that have pretty much always been starters and I don't know if they'd sign with a team where they're expected to be backups. Really, I think the only guys on that list who would be fine with taking a backup slot would be Warner or Brooks (And I think Warner is retiring).

On the other side of the stick, you've got guys like Harrington that are still out to prove that they are "the man". I wouldn;t bring in Harrington under any conditions because this is a guy who is still young enough that he's looking for a franchise to make his own. This type of backup to me wouldn;t be a mentor to Charlie.

I agree with you that people would look at names likes Aaron Brooks and rant and rave about how bad he sucks with the Raiders and how he never did anything big with the Saints. But the fact is that would we rather have him or Derek Anderson as a backup?

Pretty easy answer to me.

Bottom line: I wish we still had Dilfer as I think he filled the role perfectly. (Although my first choice for last year was still Gus "Concrete Head Butt" Frerotte.)

[color:"white"]hehehe.....I still remember the look on his face (shown in slo-mo) as he tottered backwards after going with the headbutt. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Some of those guys may get their shot at starting, some may have to accept backup gigs. Reality isn't always nice, and they may not have a choice.

I was big on him in preseason, and I still think Rattay would make an excellent backup to Frye. He's a soft-tossin' accurate guy who also appears to have a big thing going for him that Savage loves: He's from Ohio.[/color]

If and When that happens it will be because we now have a superbly well rounded team...One player going down won't KILL us like in the past...It's starting to happen in the Secondary...I'm AMAZED how well these back-ups are playing within the scheme of things...

If Frye goes down and we're at the point of EXPECTING TO WIN...We're good enuff to sustain it with a seasoned Anderson...We have no idea what this kid has in year 2...Not that Savage is a QB Guru...lmao...But he obviously saw something in Anderson to pick him up off waivers from guess where...BALTIMORE...lol...

Anderson might just develop into that #2 that can STAY WITHIN THE SCHEME for a couple games if necessary...Any more than a couple/three and we better have a REAL WELL ROUNDED TEAM...lol...Just like any other NFL team...

I look at the #2's across the league and just laugh...

Unless Frye just BOMBS the last 7...We stay as far away from a back-up QB as possible...He's already here...And if he DOES bomb...Well there's your #2 right there...Cause Frye's done PLENTY already to be considered a bonafide #2...

And if u think I've changed my stance from pre-season of wanting an EXP back-up to Frye...I HAVE...That was when Frye-Daddy was a SUPER PUP...Now he's just a PUP...lol...

Damn! You ARE good! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] If Frye goes down and we're at the point of EXPECTING TO WIN...We're good enuff to sustain it with a seasoned Anderson...We have no idea what this kid has in year 2...Not that Savage is a QB Guru...lmao...But he obviously saw something in Anderson to pick him up off waivers from guess where...BALTIMORE...lol...
[/color]

U are aware that some backups actually are crap? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I sort of had a similar feeling but I also had the feeling that a experienced young vet might be the better ticket if MR.ANDERSON doesn't really have the ball skills to play .

I guess we won't really know how he plays, until he plays.

just clicking

I'm amazed at how many on this board realize what it will take to be a play-off
contender and yet expect Savage and Crennel to fix it overnight. [one season]

I hear "it takes time to develop whatever" out of one side of the mouth and 'you better
do something right now" out of the other side. Can't have it both ways guys.

I have no doubt S&C are doing everything they can to get this team turned around
and they should ignore every one of us.

Melt Pittsburgh

[color:"red"]"Damn! You ARE good!"

[color:"orange"]As much as I have Loathed Toad in some recent debates (I don't stay mad...a day or two max <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

I much prefer being on the same side in a debate - not so much for his football knowledge (thats sort of with Vers' variable) but because of his presentation. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

I prefer my lack of knowledge, and lack of presentation method myself <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]Hehehe.....You guys crack me up <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You only stay mad a day or two? You're a better man than I am. I can't seem to shake that crap for at least a week <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As for Frye, Groza, it can go both ways in that regard. There are some things we believe Savage needs to do yesterday, while at the same time realizing this fixer-upper can't be fixed overnight.

Now, if we can just find a way to acquire 7 first round draft picks in this upcoming draft........[/color]

That quote sparked a lot of thought, so nice job.

I think that Frye will get at least another year to prove himself. I think it would be way too early to write him off this year.

I also think it is way too early to say he is the answer.

Thus, the answer to your backup question is to get the best possible backup/potential starter you can. I will even take that a step further. A team should never pass on a franchise qb unless they already have one who is in the prime of his career. Therefore, if Savage deems one of the qbs from this draft a franchise qb, he would be stupid to pass on him. I will say that I seriously doubt that any of this year's QBs are worthy of being labled a franchise qb.

I don't buy into the nonsense that you don't want to subject your qb to a challenge because it will bruise his ego. I don't want the guy if that is the case. I want a guy who will welcome the challenge and prepare himself even harder to win the job. Please don't mistake that w/playing musical QBs during the season. That's a different animal.

The Browns need to upgrade the QB position. It would be great if Frye and Anderson turn out to be a dynamic duo, but it would be foolish to bank on it.

I don't think the Browns should break the bank on improving the QB position, but they should certainly invest in it.

I agree about drafting a qb. In a earlier comment I said something about "if something better falls in your lap".

That would also encompass the draft. I don't know how guys are going to pan out, but if a top pospect is sitting there, you consider the options.


But you don't need to go to great length to put yourself in position.....if it happens, it happens. I would say most people agree the Frye era gets at least a portion of next year unless something dramatic happens.


And if his portion of next year doesn't go well, it doesn't really matter what the other portion holds.

I would not draft a QB. I would not draft anything the first day other than OL and DL. We are not going to win anything until those two problems are fixed. If Frye isn't the answer we will still be in position next draft to take a top prospect at QB. We can't afford to fix the lines with free agents and I think most people realize it hasn't worked on the Oline. We have brought in the perimeter players we need for now and must build the lines before we can even gauge the effectiveness of a new QB.

[color:"white"]Yes, yes, I agree, ditto.

I may not fully believe in Frye, but I do believe that it wouldn't matter who's back there at QB when the line is blocking as poorly as I'm seeing in the Chargers, Jets, and Falcons games. Frye has created some sacks on his own, but after watching these matches, he's escaped many more than he's caused.

Right now with a rough count, he'd have 6 more sacks between the Jets and Chargers games, bringing the total up from 34 to 40 through 9 games. That's just horrid, and Droughns lack of yardage is a direct product of that.

After the first 40 minutes of the Falcons game, this is probably the best I've seen Frye play. Now I know he'll make some mistakes, but in a dome where his hands aren't as big an issue (no pun intended) he's validated the belief that he deserves more time. He's been far from perfect, but teams can win with a gutsy playmaker even if he's not a great passer. To repeat myself from numerous times this year, he's earned more time. I just hope he can get past the mental screwups and physical limitations. [/color]

You laughed at me for saying that this was only his 3rd real game due to Carthon, odd how he progressed isn't it?

[color:"white"]No, I laughed because it was a dumb thing to say, hehe. [/color]

[color:"red"] Thus, the answer to your backup question is to get the best possible backup/potential starter you can. I will even take that a step further. A team should never pass on a franchise qb unless they already have one who is in the prime of his career. Therefore, if Savage deems one of the qbs from this draft a franchise qb, he would be stupid to pass on him. I will say that I seriously doubt that any of this year's QBs are worthy of being labled a franchise qb.

I don't buy into the nonsense that you don't want to subject your qb to a challenge because it will bruise his ego. I don't want the guy if that is the case. I want a guy who will welcome the challenge and prepare himself even harder to win the job. Please don't mistake that w/playing musical QBs during the season. That's a different animal.

[/color]
Interesing thought..not that I disagree ..let me qantify my remarks by saying for me...at any position on this team , if there is a available player be it draft/fa to upgrade ANY position, I want that player, and that includes the QB.
That out of the way..I want a backup who can continue the momentum if Frye goes down and the Browns are winning..
Now come April, and even if Frye is given another shot to start 07..if there is a BETTER QB out there to bring in you do it..either he competes or he sits and learns if he's a rookie..
Of course I'm aware of the other holes we have so don't think I'm overlooking the obvious.
I want someone at the helm who can produce wins.

So if your taught 2 + 2 = 5 and you know it's wrong, what are you going to retain from your teacher?