The Proud Boys Are Reportedly Using YouTube To Organise Violence At Biden’s Inauguration
The Proud Boys have vowed to return to Washington DC ‘bigger and stronger than ever’ on Inauguration Day.
The far-right, male-only political organisation has turned to YouTube to recruit new members and promote events.
One of its organisers, Joe Biggs, has started a show on his channel called The War Boys, which often takes aim at liberals and anti-fascists.
In a recent episode, Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio encourages Biggs’ 13,800 subscribers to ‘take over’ President-elect Joe Biden’s inauguration in January 2021.
‘Do whatever you got to do to f*ck*ng get your tickets. You show up there in Biden gear and you turn his inauguration into a f*ck*ng circus, a sign of resistance, a sign of revolution …. You f*ck*ng kick off this presidency with f*ck*ng fireworks,’ Tarrio tells listeners.
Describing the political divide between Democrats and Republicans as ‘good and evil’, Biggs said of Biden’s party:
The same party that said if we lockdown for a month, we can flatten the curve, we can go back to normal … They are con artists. They are evil scum and they all deserve to die a traitor’s death.
It was the same episode that encouraged members of the party to go to Washington DC last weekend, December 12, to protest the election results.
The Proud Boys have claimed that they are not racist. However, footage from the protests last week showed its members vandalising and then burning a ‘Black Lives Matter’ sign, which they had stolen from DC’s oldest Black church.
Reporters at the scene said the group poured lighter fluid on the sign before setting it alight as a large, cheering crowd gathered around them.
Asbury’s lead pastor, Ianther M. Mills, said she had seen ‘an apparent rise in White supremacy’. In a statement to Fox News, she compared the burning of the signs to Ku Klux Klan cross-burnings.
Mills said: For me it was reminiscent of cross-burnings. As horrible and as disturbing as this is for us now – it doesn’t compare with the challenges and fears the men and women who started Asbury, 184 years ago, faced. So we will move forward, undaunted in our assurance that Black Lives Matter.
Since the incident, police are now investigating property damage and potential hate crime charges.
FBI: White supremacists plotted attack on US power grid
The FBI alleges in an affidavit that white supremacists schemed to attack power stations in the southeastern U.S. and one Ohio teenager wanted the group to be “operational” on a faster timeline if President Donald Trump lost his re-election bid
White supremacists plotted to attack power stations in the southeastern U.S., and an Ohio teenager who allegedly shared the plan said he wanted the group to be “operational” on a fast-tracked timeline if President Donald Trump were to lose his re-election bid, the FBI alleges in an affidavit that was mistakenly unsealed.
The teen was in a text group with more than a dozen people in the fall of 2019 when he introduced the idea of saving money to buy a ranch where they could participate in militant training, according to the affidavit, which was filed under seal along with a search warrant application in Wisconsin’s Eastern U.S. District Court in March. The documents were inadvertently unsealed last week before the mistake was discovered and they were quickly sealed again.
The teenager wanted the group to be “operational” by the 2024 election because he believed it was likely a Democrat would win, but “the timeline for being operational would accelerate if President Trump lost the 2020 election,” according to the affidavit. An informant told investigators that the teen “definitely wanted to be operational for violence, but also activism.”
The Ohio teen, who was 17 at the time, also shared plans with a smaller group about a plot to create a power outage by shooting rifle rounds into power stations in the southeastern U.S. The teen called the plot “Light's Out” and there were plans to carry it out in the summer of 2021, the affidavit states.
One group member, a Texas native who was a Purdue University student at the time, allegedly sent the informant a text saying “leaving the power off would wake people up to the harsh reality of life by wreaking havoc across the nation.”
The affidavit identifies three people by name and references others who were allegedly communicating with or part of the group. The Associated Press is not naming any of the individuals because charges have not been publicly filed.
None of the three men immediately replied to emails, texts or voicemails left Tuesday seeking comment. The father of one of the men had no comment.
Federal prosecutors in Ohio are taking the lead on the case. Jennifer Thornton, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Southern District of Ohio, said she couldn't provide additional information because the investigation is ongoing, but “we want to emphasize that there is no imminent public safety threat related to this matter.”
The affidavit details an investigation into group members, who allegedly share white supremacist ideology. The document outlines how they communicated over encrypted messaging applications before three of them eventually met up in person. They also allegedly shared recommended reading on white supremacist literature, required a “uniform” to symbolize their commitment and talked about making weapons. The affidavit says the Ohio teen put Nazi flags in his room, but his mother told him to take them down.
Some group members also indicated that they were prepared to die for their beliefs. One man from Oshkosh, Wisconsin, allegedly told the Ohio teen: “I can say with absolute certainty that I will die for this effort. I swear it on my life.” The teen replied: “I can say the same,” the court documents state.
According to the affidavit, the Wisconsin man also told an undercover FBI employee in February that the group was interested in taking “direct action” against the system and said, “If you truly want a fascist society I will put in the effort to work with you but recruitment is long and not going to be easy."
He then outlined a “radicalization” process to instill a “revolutionary mindset” which ended with recruits proving they are more than just talk. He allegedly wrote that if it seemed too tough, “I recommend leaving now, we are extremely serious about our goals and ambitions.”
The affidavit says the Ohio teen also spoke numerous times about creating Nazi militant cells around the country like those of the neo-Nazi network the Atomwaffen Division.
Atomwaffen Division members have promoted “accelerationism,” a fringe philosophy espousing mass violence to fuel society’s collapse. More than a dozen people linked to the group or an offshoot called the Feuerkrieg Division have been charged with serious crimes in recent years.
This investigation apparently began after a fourth man, from Canada, was stopped while trying to enter the U.S. The man told border agents that he was going to visit the Ohio teen, whom he had recently met over an encrypted app, according to the affidavit. Agents found Nazi and white supremacist images on his phone.
Not ANTIFA. But it is a well known far left symbol. I have a gut feeling this was not done by Anarchist because the blood was fake. Anarchist might have lit a small fire too. Won't be surprised, if anyone is caught, to find out this is from the right or somebody trying to lay it on the left. But that never happens...
But the far left is plenty angry at dems right now, so it could be.
The tagging and display of a pig's head and fake blood is a warning that the guillotines are coming. Meaning the rich and powerful will fall along with the government when the people rise up to take back their power. BUT to be honest, it's staging is so corny and obvious to those that get the symbology that it looks like some crap that Charlie Kirk or Project Veritas and James O'Keefe would pull. And that would make sense with TMZ getting the tip but no other msm outlets reporting.
The biggest giveaway IMHO is the "We want everything"... Nobody on the left has or probably ever will say that. And it's not mentioned but it looks like the other three items are $2k with a strikethrough, Cancel Rent, and UBI... I don't know anyone wanting to 'cancel rent', except maybe the communist who despise anyone who doesn't contribute through personal labor, like landlords. The left is worried about the rent/mortgage moratorium ending and millions being on the street, so they want to government to offset past rent, not cancel or end it altogether. Andrew Yang is the only one I know who is pushing for UBI strongly, although others have talked about it openly. The strikethrough on $2k seems like they took it off the list but I assure you that the left hasn't done that. So when you add it all together it points more right than left.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 01/01/2111:45 PM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Oh I agree with that Peen. It even crossed my mind that Pelosi herself might have staged this because of all the political attacks from the left. Throwing progressives, ANTIFA, Leftists, BLM, or any other "people's movement" on the left under the bus will only help solidify establishment dem power under Biden... Can't have those pesky lefties putting up an actual fight for the working class now can we... smh
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 01/02/2109:42 AM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Sort of sounds/feels like you have adopted a Freddie Kitchens style mantra: If you aren't part of the far left, you don't matter.
I think that attitude will take you as far as Freddie took the Browns as a HC.
I hope and want the country to adopt more progressive attitudes and culture and politics. I also want fiscal responsibility and accountability - I lean towards healthcare as a right and more socially progressive agendas but it's not a blank check. I'll vote that way and I will push that agenda with my daily life, actions and conversations and through the way I educate my kids. I hope the voters become enlightened and move in that direction through education and becoming engaged in politics and the process as opposed to being apathetic or entitlelist. I doubt whether anarchy and hostility of anything "centrist" is going to help that change - in fact I think it will slow it down.
We've had 4 years of anarchy and a King who stamped his feet like Rumpelstiltskin when he didn't get his way or the media had the audacity to disagree with his personal warped viewpoint ... I don't want more of the same but from a different section of society.
Last edited by mgh888; 01/02/2110:41 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Well, one thing is clear... this probably wasn't anyone on the right. The spelling and grammar is correct. Also, it probably wasn't your average youth... the dollar sign is on the correct side.
It's sad, but these are the signs today that the perpetrator was actually decently educated and at least of moderate intelligence.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Oh I agree with that Peen. It even crossed my mind that Pelosi herself might have staged this because of all the political attacks from the left. Throwing progressives, ANTIFA, Leftists, BLM, or any other "people's movement" on the left under the bus will only help solidify establishment dem power under Biden... Can't have those pesky lefties putting up an actual fight for the working class now can we... smh
j/c
I find it odd that Pelosi wouldn't have some sort of security system with a minimum of at least 1 camera on her property. Does anyone else find that odd?
President Trump's Supporters Plan to Protest Election Results in DC on Jan. 6
Multiple groups filed permits for thousands to demonstrate near the White House
Organizations planning demonstrations at Freedom Plaza include Women for America First, which filed a permit for 5,000 attendees, and the Eighty Percent Coalition, which estimates 10,000. The Silent Majority said it expects 250-500 to demonstrate near the Washington Monument.
Given the recent violent clashes that have erupted at previous election-related protests, some local businesses are preparing for the worst.
The Hotel Harrington and Harry’s Bar, two spots known to be frequented by a far-right group, the Proud Boys, announced they’ll close for part of next week.
In a statement, the hotel said: “While we cannot control what happens outside of the hotel we are taking additional steps to protect the safety of our visitors guests and employees…. We will not be accommodating guests, with the exception of our long-term residents who call our hotel home.”
Some D.C. residents, like Karen Jennings, who are concerned about the potential for unrest, say the bar and hotel made the right decision.
"They don’t want the bad publicity because they have to be here when those guys leave in two or three days," she said.
The leader of the Proud Boys says the bar and hotel are not meetup spots for the group, which still plans to fan out across the District next week.
Earlier this month, members of the group clashed with anti-fascist protestors and stole a Black Lives Matter sign from a church before burning it.
Despite chatter on far-right social media sites calling for violence, the Metropolitan Police Department told News4: "While MPD does not discuss operational tactics, as with any known, large demonstration, we will continue to monitor and assess each activity. While we are not aware of any credible threats across Washington, D.C., we urge our community to report any suspicious behavior or online postings to the proper authorities."
Several downtown hotels tell News4 they’re aware that they’ve been mentioned as alternative places to stay and are implementing security and safety plans, but none said they would be closing.
The District plans to release information security measures in the following days.
D.C. police released a list of road closures and parking restrictions; the full list is available online here.
Black Lives Matter DC issued a statement calling on the mayor, MPD and local hotels and businesses, saying “Tell the racists that they’re not welcome in our city!”
Local activists said they have been placing calls to downtown hotel tells asking them not to rent rooms to the Proud Boys.
‘President Trump Has Called’: Supporters Plan D.C. Rally To Overturn His Loss On Day Congress Certifies Election
Supporters of President Trump from across the country are planning a large rally in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 6—the day Congress is scheduled to certify President-elect Joe Biden’s victory—in what’s being characterized as a final push to overturn the election’s results.
Trump appealed to his supporters in a tweet last week, reposting a report written by White House Advisor Peter Navarro that alleges (without credible evidence) widespread election fraud and calling for a “big,” “wild” protest in D.C. to remedy his “impossible” loss.
Though it doesn’t appear any large-scale protests were in the works prior to Trump’s tweet, his supporters quickly moved to organize.
According to local news outlet, dcist, Women For America First, one of the organizations involved in the previous two election fraud rallies in Washington, D.C., changed the date on a previous request for a protest permit for the weekend after the presidential inauguration.
“The president is calling on us to come back to Washington on January 6th for a big protest,” reads a flyer published on Women for America First’s website, trumpmarch.com, noting that specific time and location have not yet been determined.
As what appears to be the largest event planned for that day, Women for America says it is estimating 5,000 attendees, whom it hopes to host at the city’s historic Freedom Plaza.
On Facebook pages for other, seemingly smaller protests organized for that day, and in other chat platforms like Gab, Parler and Telegram, Trump supporters are discussing trekking across the country for the protest and bringing guns to D.C. (where that is now allowed), while prominent right-wing groups like the Proud Boys have already indicated they plan to attend.
The two previous election fraud rallies in Washington—one in November and one in December—ended in violence after contentious run-ins with counter-protesters. After a largely peaceful day, a man in his 20s was stabbed in the back and two police officers were injured at the mid-November “Million Maga March.” During this month’s “Stop the Steal” protest on Dec. 13, four people were stabbed and one man shot, with a total of eight hospitalized. The D.C. police are investigating as potential hate crimes protesters who tore down Black Lives Matter banners from predominantly Black D.C. churches.
“We want to see peaceful protests in our city,” said D.C.’s new police chief Robert Contee during a Tuesday press conference when asked about the protests planned for Jan. 6. Contee said the city is anticipating similar disruptions to the previous protests.
With the Electoral College having already formalized Biden’s win and waning avenues for his election sustained challenges, Trump—and a growing number of Republicans in the House of Representatives—have thrown their weight behind the strategy of overturning the loss when Congress counts the Electoral College votes on Jan. 6. If lawmakers from both the House and Senate submit formal challenges to the results, which Republican lawmakers have indicated they may do, the chambers will debate the results of the state challenged. Even if this does yield a decision to overturn that specific state’s result (which is unlikely given the fact that the House has a Democratic majority and that enough Republican senators have acknowledged Biden’s victory to stop the Senate from voting to flip results), Biden had such a wide margin of victory in the Electoral College (306 to 232 votes) that it is almost certain the GOP challengers would not be successful. Nonetheless, at least online, the president’s supporters are hopeful they have a chance. “January 6th won’t be a protest — it will be a celebration,” wrote the Million Maga March account in a Dec. 20 tweet.
Sort of sounds/feels like you have adopted a Freddie Kitchens style mantra: If you aren't part of the far left, you don't matter.
I think that attitude will take you as far as Freddie took the Browns as a HC.
I hope and want the country to adopt more progressive attitudes and culture and politics. I also want fiscal responsibility and accountability - I lean towards healthcare as a right and more socially progressive agendas but it's not a blank check. I'll vote that way and I will push that agenda with my daily life, actions and conversations and through the way I educate my kids. I hope the voters become enlightened and move in that direction through education and becoming engaged in politics and the process as opposed to being apathetic or entitlelist. I doubt whether anarchy and hostility of anything "centrist" is going to help that change - in fact I think it will slow it down.
We've had 4 years of anarchy and a King who stamped his feet like Rumpelstiltskin when he didn't get his way or the media had the audacity to disagree with his personal warped viewpoint ... I don't want more of the same but from a different section of society.
What you don't get is that I really don't care what anyone's personal political views are or where they fall on the political spectrum. I'll even praise Trump for holding McConnell's feet to the fire over the $2k stimulus! For me it's about policy that helps everyday working class people and the poor during a time of UNREAL wealth inequality. All those longing for the America of yesteryear where the middle class thrived should be onboard with most of the progressive platform IMHO. Pumping money to the oligarchy is not part of that platform. And 'right now' that is all moderates seem to want to do on both sides. So if it sounds like I'm attacking those positions, you're damn right I am.
Pit and I have similar differences, even though we agree on about 90% of everything policy wise. Pit likes slow incremental change, or so he says. This is a conservative value IMHO. It is also the radical extremist view during a huge crisis if you ask me. It's tantamount to telling someone with a severed limb that we will need to wait and see if a tunicate is actually needed or if a tax break for the rich would be better to stop you from bleeding out... it's a ridiculous position.
And rather I like it or not, in America everyone counts. The stupid vote. The rich vote. The intelligent vote. The poor vote. All political, religious, and special interest variances vote. And it makes everything complicated when we try to agree. BUT it is not a reason for slow incremental change or complete inaction during a crisis. We can all see people need help. We can all see small businesses need help. We can all see Jeff Bezos and the financial elite are doing just fine. Why the hell are we sending the bulk of the stimulus to Wall street, big business, and the oligarchy? Look at the millions handed out to the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene, the QAnon Rep from Georgia while you got $1800 and a swift kick in the ass for not picking yourself up by the bootstraps...
Self-funding QAnon candidate gave own campaign $450,000 after getting PPP loan
There is no incremental change called for, or deficit debates when it's time to spend trillions on wars or bailouts for the donor class. NOPE, those weak ass excuses are just there to be used to keep anything that helps working people from being helped. And if you would take a moment and watch what is really going on instead of getting all ruffled about what I believe politically, you might see some of the same things I see and get POed about it too. It has nothing to do with me thinking anything like "if you are not far left you don't matter" because I'm fighting this fight for you too, rather you agree with my politics or not. How could that possibly be interpreted as you don't matter?
This is a guy I just started to follow recently on Youtube. His positions are very similar to where I stand politically. He too calls himself progressive, but you will see some diversity in who he (and I) think are doing the right things in different political situations. The status quo from the Obama years is just not a goal we can support. Check him out, maybe you will get people like me a little better.
Oh I agree with that Peen. It even crossed my mind that Pelosi herself might have staged this because of all the political attacks from the left. Throwing progressives, ANTIFA, Leftists, BLM, or any other "people's movement" on the left under the bus will only help solidify establishment dem power under Biden... Can't have those pesky lefties putting up an actual fight for the working class now can we... smh
j/c
I find it odd that Pelosi wouldn't have some sort of security system with a minimum of at least 1 camera on her property. Does anyone else find that odd?
As Speaker of the House I thought she would have a secret service contingent protecting her 24/7, unless she was not at her home I don't see how it was possible either. That's why I started thinking Pelosi herself might be behind it because it makes the left look bad.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Oh I agree with that Peen. It even crossed my mind that Pelosi herself might have staged this because of all the political attacks from the left. Throwing progressives, ANTIFA, Leftists, BLM, or any other "people's movement" on the left under the bus will only help solidify establishment dem power under Biden... Can't have those pesky lefties putting up an actual fight for the working class now can we... smh
j/c
I find it odd that Pelosi wouldn't have some sort of security system with a minimum of at least 1 camera on her property. Does anyone else find that odd?
No. Some people don’t feel the need to have their cribs decked like the DMZ line in korea.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Pit likes slow incremental change, or so he says. This is a conservative value IMHO.
No matter how many times you get told something, you still can't seem to grasp it.
It's not a question of "what I want". It's not a question of what you want. It's a question of what you can sell to the voters and what you can't. Wholesale changes can not be sold to enough voters to win a national election. It sells in some parts of the country. That's why you have very liberal congressional members and even a few senators. But that's not going to sell on a national scale.
And here's why. People do not trust our government to run anything.
They do not trust them to run our healthcare. They look at our schools and no longer trust them to run the schools. They see the waste and corruption in Washington and don't trust them to run anything.
I mean I want a condo in Hawaii but that's not going to happen. (Okay, I don't really want a condo in Hawaii but it makes the point.) What you can sell and what you can elect on a national scale are candidates that will install incremental changes.
I've watched over my lifetime as people have gained civil rights. People have gained an expansion of medicaid for the very poor. Women gained the right to abortion. The LBGTQ community gain the right to marry. I could list many more. These weren't done by accident. These were hard fought battles. Hell, it wasn't so long ago women in this country couldn't even vote.
Here's the difference between us. I'm not willing to burn down everything that people have worked decades to gain because of "what I want and because I want it RIGHT NOW!" That's how children act. I value everything those who came before us fought for. I'm not willing to risk destroying it all by throwing a tantrum.
And if you follow the path you claim you will, that's exactly what you'll be doing.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
As Speaker of the House I thought she would have a secret service contingent protecting her 24/7, unless she was not at her home I don't see how it was possible either. That's why I started thinking Pelosi herself might be behind it because it makes the left look bad.
You sound so much like a Trumpian and don't even realize it. You are so blinded you can't tell your friends from your enemies.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
As Speaker of the House I thought she would have a secret service contingent protecting her 24/7, unless she was not at her home I don't see how it was possible either. That's why I started thinking Pelosi herself might be behind it because it makes the left look bad.
You sound so much like a Trumpian and don't even realize it. You are so blinded you can't tell your friends from your enemies.
No, I discussed why I thought it might be the right, could have been the left, and thought about it even being Pelosi herself... You are ridiculous in your attacks on me because somehow you are the only one that is ever right about anything, except you rarely are. Step off.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
I appreciate the response but I don't think it actually addresses my point. And I'm not telling you not to think or act the way you do - I am pointing out what I think the impact of attacking anyone who isn't radical enough for you.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Pit likes slow incremental change, or so he says. This is a conservative value IMHO.
No matter how many times you get told something, you still can't seem to grasp it.
It's not a question of "what I want". It's not a question of what you want. It's a question of what you can sell to the voters and what you can't. Wholesale changes can not be sold to enough voters to win a national election. It sells in some parts of the country. That's why you have very liberal congressional members and even a few senators. But that's not going to sell on a national scale.
And here's why. People do not trust our government to run anything.
They do not trust them to run our healthcare. They look at our schools and no longer trust them to run the schools. They see the waste and corruption in Washington and don't trust them to run anything.
I mean I want a condo in Hawaii but that's not going to happen. (Okay, I don't really want a condo in Hawaii but it makes the point.) What you can sell and what you can elect on a national scale are candidates that will install incremental changes.
I've watched over my lifetime as people have gained civil rights. People have gained an expansion of medicaid for the very poor. Women gained the right to abortion. The LBGTQ community gain the right to marry. I could list many more. These weren't done by accident. These were hard fought battles. Hell, it wasn't so long ago women in this country couldn't even vote.
Here's the difference between us. I'm not willing to burn down everything that people have worked decades to gain because of "what I want and because I want it RIGHT NOW!" That's how children act. I value everything those who came before us fought for. I'm not willing to risk destroying it all by throwing a tantrum.
And if you follow the path you claim you will, that's exactly what you'll be doing.
YOU YOURSELF EVEN CLAIM TO HAVE CONSERVATIVE VALUES! Why is it an attack or does it require some weird form of retaliation post when I say it? You can't be reasoned with when you get like this... ridiculous skirt in a ruffle reactionary attacks become your go to response for anyone that doesn't bow at the same alter you worship at politically.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
I appreciate the response but I don't think it actually addresses my point. And I'm not telling you not to think or act the way you do - I am pointing out what I think the impact of attacking anyone who isn't radical enough for you.
Well stop right there... What is radical about wanting to help working class and poor people? I mean if you can show me why that is radical I will wear the label proudly! If you ask me supporting endless wars (MIC), supporting a corporatist agenda (wealth grabbing), and supporting the constant cyclical betrayal of the American working class (middle class) by a government that only works for the oligarchy is the radical extremist policy/view/problem we have right now in our government... You know, moderates from both sides protecting the status quo and calling for slow incremental change during a crisis or even during this period of wealth disparity that they've created over the last 40 years.
So who is the real radical extremist here? That and moderates anti socialist rhetoric is hindering any real progress dems could be making right now. AND I'm not the guy who gets all puffy and starts calling everyone a socialist or a commie for fighting for the working class. Can you sit there and Tell me that Pelosi or Schumer are fighting for us? Really?
Yes, I am happy to fight the right when they come with fascist leadership and try to take the country down that path. And for 4 years I have been relentless on getting Trump out because I can't stand him or his views/politics. BUT he is out in a few weeks and the Dem leadership is dropping the ball, so it's their turn under the gun. Certainly, you can understand that. It's not like I kept not liking Biden being thrust upon the left by establishment dems and republicans a secret leading up to the election; so why are you surprised that I would lash out at them now? I just don't see how that is confusing.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Radical is in the eye of the beholder. You could interchange the word "extreme" for "radical" the intent and meaning of my post stays the same. "Far enough" is the meaning. If you want to get offended at the choice of words - that's on you not me.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Pit likes slow incremental change, or so he says. This is a conservative value IMHO.
No matter how many times you get told something, you still can't seem to grasp it.
It's not a question of "what I want". It's not a question of what you want. It's a question of what you can sell to the voters and what you can't. Wholesale changes can not be sold to enough voters to win a national election. It sells in some parts of the country. That's why you have very liberal congressional members and even a few senators. But that's not going to sell on a national scale.
And here's why. People do not trust our government to run anything.
They do not trust them to run our healthcare. They look at our schools and no longer trust them to run the schools. They see the waste and corruption in Washington and don't trust them to run anything.
I mean I want a condo in Hawaii but that's not going to happen. (Okay, I don't really want a condo in Hawaii but it makes the point.) What you can sell and what you can elect on a national scale are candidates that will install incremental changes.
I've watched over my lifetime as people have gained civil rights. People have gained an expansion of medicaid for the very poor. Women gained the right to abortion. The LBGTQ community gain the right to marry. I could list many more. These weren't done by accident. These were hard fought battles. Hell, it wasn't so long ago women in this country couldn't even vote.
Here's the difference between us. I'm not willing to burn down everything that people have worked decades to gain because of "what I want and because I want it RIGHT NOW!" That's how children act. I value everything those who came before us fought for. I'm not willing to risk destroying it all by throwing a tantrum.
And if you follow the path you claim you will, that's exactly what you'll be doing.
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Let me explain how social media works. You post things and people respond.
If you think law and order is a conservative value, then I qualify. If you think second amendment rights is a conservative issue then I qualify.
As per usual you don't address any of my points directly because you can't. You just spout drivel and have nothing of substance to say.
If you don't want me to respond, don't post. As long as you do I'll respond any damned way I want to.
Try stepping up and debating points for a change.
Well let me spell it out for your condescending ass so you might be able to understand... Point for point:
1)It's a question of what you can sell to the voters and what you can't.
A) BS. You call it selling it to the voters. I seem to remember Bernie doing a damn fine job of selling it to the voters. So much so that all the other candidates suddenly became FOR different bits of his platform. Anybody that remotely followed could see that.
Yet, the establishment dems, msm, and Obama all came together to anoint Biden after some shady ass backroom dealing. That's not selling an agenda, that's rigging an election. The only fools who bought into that are the ones who support all that corporatism and legislation favoring the oligarchy... like you.
2) Wholesale changes can not be sold to enough voters to win a national election.
A) Then why was FDR elected 4 times? FOUR.
Now I'm sure you will roll your eyes at that because it's not modern, so let me ask you why Bernie is the most popular politician "on both sides of the aisle" in the country. Yes Trump is more popular with the GOP base and Biden with centrists corporatist, but Bernie reached working people on both sides and topped out just under 80% favorability for more than 4 years! He was preaching wholesale change the whole damn time.
3) People do not trust our government to run anything.
A) Why would they after the last 40 years? But they run the military, they run a significant amount of socialist programs from education to medicare and social security BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE CAN. M4A is no different because the current healthcare system is a complete failure and the pandemic only proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt. But you go ahead and believe in fairytales of a discounted healthcare system under the ACA if you want to, or how propping up the stock market will create great jobs if you want to, or how we need to spend ten times what anyone else does every year on our military but can't afford to help the poor if you want to... I'll call that line of thinking what it is, and it is radical.
As far as the Hawaii bit, I have no clue what that was supposed to prove or even mean. The part about you watching in your lifetime (guessing around 60 years or less since you would have been a kid before that), again I'll bring up FDR and add in Truman, JFK, and Johnson who all addressed great political crises with wholesale change... What else is there to say?
And I get you think I want to burn it all down all the time. But if I had a car that would only drive in reverse no matter how I tried to fix it, I'd scrap that car... IMHO burning it all down is what has been happening for 40 years and people like me are the volunteer Fire Department showing up to finally end the flames of radical centrist corporatist arson. What I want I want now... that's the same thing you are doing. You want a center conservative approach to everything because you are fearful of radical wholesale changes. You are worried about the cost or what you might lose or how it might hurt you... I get that. But supporting legislators/policies that want NO change or incremental change in a system rigged against you and that has systematically made you poorer for 40 plus years is like some sort of weird Stockholm syndrome. How fast is too fast to stop the bleeding there stumpy? <-tables spun, your ball.
All your tantrum crap and other fear mongering is all part of your blindness to the reality of your situation, so I'll skip the nasty response this time.
Hope this ticks all your boxes Pit.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Radical is in the eye of the beholder. You could interchange the word "extreme" for "radical" the intent and meaning of my post stays the same. "Far enough" is the meaning. If you want to get offended at the choice of words - that's on you not me.
You are just like Pit. If you don't like it, you slap a nasty label on it and pretend it's fringe... Y'all need to take a breath and look around. The reality is we just elected a new POTUS that will fight at every turn to keep the oligarchy in power. Money will continue to rule and your lot in life will continue to be diminished. But at least you will feel safe from radical extremist change.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Radical is in the eye of the beholder. You could interchange the word "extreme" for "radical" the intent and meaning of my post stays the same. "Far enough" is the meaning. If you want to get offended at the choice of words - that's on you not me.
You are just like Pit. If you don't like it, you slap a nasty label on it and pretend it's fringe... Y'all need to take a breath and look around. The reality is we just elected a new POTUS that will fight at every turn to keep the oligarchy in power. Money will continue to rule and your lot in life will continue to be diminished. But at least you will feel safe from radical extremist change.
No - you need to take a breath and stop looking to fight all the time.
The meaning and intent of what I wrote - using well known phrases - is that you are attacking anyone and everyone who isn't as far to one side of the debate as you are. As extreme as your views are. As radical as your views are.
You are choosing to get your knickers Royally twisted over a common phrase. Semantics. I even said in my damn post - you are free to think and act any way you want. I am NOT trying to moderate you (another fake claim you alluded to) ... I spelled out that I was commenting on the impact I feel your tactic will have.
So take your own advice - take a deep breath and take the comments for what they are worth instead of acting like I've uttered some slanderous, outrageous statement.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I'm a red blooded American Hillbilly bro, I don't and never have worn 'knickers'... lmao. You and Pit might be related. Or you share the same confusion delusion... But I still love you both because we 90% agree AND we bonded over bashing Trump for the last 4 years. Sorry that you can't handle centrist Biden and company now being in my crosshairs. Meh, maybe the GOPers that hate me for bashing Trump will feel better now.
And this bit "like I've uttered some slanderous, outrageous statement." is exactly what you do every time you call me radical or extremist for my political views. Just FYI.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 01/02/2101:41 PM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
So your Trumpian logic. "The election was rigged against Bernie!"
You claim that Bernie got the moderates to adopt some of his policies, but that isn't good enough for you. You're still throwing a tantrum because you're not getting everything you want. Your claim is the moderates compromised with your own candidate and that will never be enough.
You do understand that's the very definition of an extremist, right?
You claim that moderates working together to join together behind one candidate is rigging an election. What you're really saying is that you despise a sound strategy that outsmarted your candidates. Because there's nothing illegal, immoral or wrong about that.
Then, to try and make a point you reach back 70 or 80 years to try and prove a point with FDR? Then let me ask you, why hasn't a candidate like FDR been elected since the end of WW2?
Once again in your anger you become confused. Nothing new there. I'm telling you WHY the average voter does not trust the government running their healthcare. All you did was point out the programs that tax payers can see the government has screwed up. The military budget, education and a host of other government programs. That's why the average voter does not trust the government to run their healthcare. Now if you can remove your head from where you squarely have it planted, hopefully you can see this is not, "my opinion on healthcare".
Quote:
Truman, JFK, and Johnson
You obviously need a history lesson. If any of those candidates were running today you would be calling them moderates and hate 80% of what they stood for. Anyone who was around at the time can tell you that. You sir would be no fan of JFK.
And you sit here and claim that Bernie had 80% support while he couldn't even win the democratic nomination?
Let me give you an example of what you propose. It's actually the last far left liberal candidate the democrats ran. Someone you would have actually approved of. I don't need to reach all the way back to the 30's or 40's to do that.
It was 1972. George McGovern. He won a grand total of one state, Massachusetts. Nixon won 96% of the electoral college vote.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Oh I agree with that Peen. It even crossed my mind that Pelosi herself might have staged this because of all the political attacks from the left. Throwing progressives, ANTIFA, Leftists, BLM, or any other "people's movement" on the left under the bus will only help solidify establishment dem power under Biden... Can't have those pesky lefties putting up an actual fight for the working class now can we... smh
j/c
I find it odd that Pelosi wouldn't have some sort of security system with a minimum of at least 1 camera on her property. Does anyone else find that odd?
No. Some people don’t feel the need to have their cribs decked like the DMZ line in korea.
That's fine. She IS, however, the speaker of the house of rep's. That's kind of a high level position, is it not? She's a multimillionaire. What would it cost her to have camera's? $2000 upfront, maybe $50 to $100 a month?
I don't know how the SS operates, or Fed. Marshall's, etc. Just seems odd to me that someone on her level doesn't have someone watching her house, OR have a security system in place at her house.
Just seems odd to me that someone on her level doesn't have someone watching her house, OR have a security system in place at her house.
Qanon has answered this question for us - no cameras at ANY high ranking Democrats homes ... there can be NO opportunity of accidentally recording video evidence of the comings and goings of the pedophiles, the handlers, the smugglers, the special guests and of course Satan himself.
I kid, I kid. To me it does seem odd as well. But I do not believe this to be a cunning plan orchestrated by Pelosi herself ... that's the same sort of whacky thinking as when Fox and friends or whichever sycophant Trump media suggested the Trump stickers on Cesar Sayoc's fan were too new and a leftist plot.
I think that just because we're not being given access to security camera footage in no way means there isn't any. I believe it would be naive to think there are no security cameras.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I think that just because we're not being given access to security camera footage means there isn't any. I believe it would be naive to think there are no security cameras.
I would hope that is true/correct.
If it IS true, that there are camera/s, issue solved. If there aren't, the issue is who did it, AND, why doesn't the speaker of the house of rep's, have at a minimum, a certain level of security at her home.
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