DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Covid-19: Again

My FIL was released from the Hospital today... That is the best news of the day.

Sorry for your loss Fate.

My aunt was extubated and has been moved out of ICU to a regular room. She still has a nose cannula for oxygen, but she is breathing on her own, speaking, and cognizant. A few more days to regain some strength and she might be allowed to go home. Home for Christmas!

That's good news. We all need some of that!!

That's awesome news and we're glad to hear it. Prayers for a full recovery!

I saw a statistic on the news that said 73% of people who get covid get it from household gatherings and only 1.43% get it from bars/restaurants. In NY.

We just had my family Christmas get together last night. 20 of us from 3 different states, 6 different cities/towns.

We did a Zoom meeting for originally 40 minutes, but it last 1 1/2 hours.

Because fewer people are going to bars?

Not the bars I go to.

Well you live in a RED state, so no surprise there.

Today we pass 300K deaths AND started vaccinations in the states. How many more will die before we get a grip on this thing?

Saw similar stats for my city. About 3% of cases came from restaurants. They cited 53 outbreaks tied to restaurants since this started and only 6 of those occurred in the last 2 months(during the recent spike).

This tells me the limited capacity is effective and there is no need to completely shut them down. If the government wants to get this under control, they need to start putting effective restrictions into place instead of ineffective restrictions just for the sake of doing something.

These are very bad statistics - and you shouldn't go to restaurants because of them.

The biggest group of people out there are people who "Don't Know" where they got Covid from -- but this statistic leaves that group out of the percentages entirely.

If you get Covid at a household gathering, then you got it from somebody you know, and then you are very likely to know that you got it from them.

If you get Covid at a restaurant, you usually do not know the person you got it from, and then you don't know where you got it.

Indoor dining in restaurants is a major source of transmission.

If 73% of people get it from their household then how can "The biggest group of people out there are people who "Don't Know" where they got Covid from" be true.

People can only tell you where they got it from if they know where they got it from. Your survey only takes into account the people who know where they got it from.

You don't know that.

What? Are you saying that everyone who contracts Covid knows where and who they contracted it from? Seriously?

And you're saying that if you don't know where you got it, it for sure must come from a bar or restaurant? Despite most people knowing they get it from family?

No - most of the people who "know where they got it from" got it from family.

That's a very different thing.

No I'm not. I never even hinted at that. I'm saying the percentage is higher than they survey indicates because if one of your family members is diagnosed with Covid and you were in close contact with them, you pretty much know where you got it. If you were at three or four public locations last week, you have no idea where you got it. But you just keep reaching.

I have to disagree with both of you. If I spend hours hanging out at a bar and catch covid I can pretty much know that's where I got it from.

If most people catch it from random places, grocery stores, gas stations, etc, we would have statistics about that. In fact we would have far more cases than we have now.

What if you just go out to dinner, the groceries and the hardware store? Which place did you get it?

You do realize that most Americans don't just go and spend, "hours at the bar", right?

I just followed all of y'alls posts and the biggest takeaway I have is don't knowingly go out to dinner with family.

It depends what's happening at the bar. Regardless, if you spend 1+ hours at a busy restaurant or bar unmasked, and 10 minutes masked up at a hardware store or gas station, pretty much you can know where you got it.

I find it amazing that you can do all of your grocery shopping in ten minutes. And actually, you can get it from anyone who is carrying it. So no, that won't tell you at which location you contracted it.

Some people are smarter than you, I'd guess.

Present company excluded?

Here's what I'm wondering. I'll try to be brief.

I got Covid. It was from a family member. Six people in our family got it. There was obviously an initial infection outside the family circle. Yesterday the Trumbull Co Health Board called to ask a litany of questions. My wife looked at me like I was from Mars as I answered question after question.

When I hung up she asked "why in the world would you answer all those questions?" Well, that's simple, if no one answered questions they would have no data. Then I thought about a lot of the questions: Were you at a funeral? Were you at a party? Wedding? Sporting event? Concert? A BAR? DINING IN AT RESTAURANTS?

It occurred to me that they never asked how I suspected I got it. Seems strange. So is it a slanted effort to establish the danger of being in crowds? Not sure.

Then I thought of something else... If I had been in any of those situations would I answer honestly? If someone is pretty sure they got it from hanging out in bars are they going to admit that?

Bottom line... Can we really trust any of the data?

I don't think you can to a great extent. It's only based on what people are willing to say or admit to. I mean let's face it, we can't even get a lot of people to use the common sense approach and wear a mask, much less be trusted to tell the truth to a questionnaire.

There are a lot of people who want to help and be accurate. It sounds as if you are a part of that group. But there's enough people who don't or won't to feel fairly confident those numbers are relatively inaccurate.

Great news ... all my best

You can't (generally) trust data that is self reported.

There have been targeted studies of infection tracking, and if you actually have samples of each person, you can track the infection directly. That is extremely reliable.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/sto...ng-for-covid-19

This, for example, is a specific case study (so it doesn't say much about how probable transmission at long distances at a restaurant is -- I'm not claiming that from this data at all).

However, in cases like this - the authorities were able to match samples from each person, and so you can be absolutely sure that A/C/D got the virus from Person B.

j/c:

They recommend we stay at home and then....

Household spread of Covid-19 is common and quick, a new CDC study finds

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/30/health/household-spread-covid-19-wellness/index.html

________________________________

This is good:

Ultraviolet LED lights kill 99.9 per cent of coronavirus pathogens in just 30 seconds and could sterilize rooms cheaply via air conditioning systems

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/...s.html#comments

P.S. My condolences to everyone that posted above that lost a friend or loved one recently due to Covid. I really thought it was gonna burn out in the summer/run its course.... nope.

I've been wondering for months why there hasn't been a major push for the in-duct UV systems. UV lights that destroy the virus are fairly inexpensive.

UV is less effective and more expensive than HEPA filters...

What is amazing is that you can currently go on amazon and buy a HEPA filter -- crazy that those aren't sold out everywhere.

What MERV level do you need to filter a virus?

What I'm seeing is that the virus is 60 to 140 nanometers in size - or 0.060 to 0.140 micron, and a MERV 16 filter will only be good to 0.3 micron. The virus is going right through your average HEPA filter.

HEPA filters are good for particles that are much much smaller than 0.3 micron -- 0.3 micron is just the standardized value that they use for testing -- not the limit of the technology.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/can-hepa-air-purifiers-capture-coronavirus/

Just educated myself on the difference between MERV & HEPA.
Yup, HEPA would be good.

https://www.sy-klone.com/merv-vs-hepa-how-air-filters-work.html

Who even goes to bars anymore? I don't drink, so it's an honest question. And I know you do , but you are a special case because that is a major part of your socializing.

Alcohol is da devil. And she done got her hooks into you! jk, but I had the waterboy's mama in my mind telling me to do it.

If you stay home, the others in your family stay home, and nobody is sick with covid when you start staying home, then it works out well. If grandma stays home while mom and dad work and go out to eat and the kids go to school and football games and such... then everybody comes home at night, grandma is a goner. That's why we bought christmas early and went and seen everyone when the numbers were down before school started back up. Christmas is not worth dying over.

Lots of people go to bars. Especially sports bars. I meet all kinds of people there from all walks of life. Also some restaurant/bar chains (think Applebees) have a lot of out of town business people clientele. A lot of people like happy hour with their buds. Other people like kareoke or live band or trivia night. Then there are also breweries with their taproom.

Its more fun than sitting around bored.