DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk K-9 Consensus Covid Vaccine: Mandatory or Voluntary?

They will make it mandatory without making it mandatory.. for example you won't be able to enroll your kids in school without it. You won't be able to fly internationally (or perhaps at all) without it. You won't be able to join the military without it. You won't be able to work with kids without it. You won't be able to work with the elderly without it. You won't be able to work in healthcare without it. So by default the majority of Americans who just want to lead a normal life will have to get it... but it's not mandatory.

100% correct. Similar to how they will 'ban' guns. They can't, but they can tax you on each one, yearly, as well as the ammunition. You'll still be able to have guns (most guns), but they will tax them out of reach for many.

Potentially, yes. However, vaccines have been a basic part of our society for a very long time. There are requirements on the MMR vaccine to attend schools. Doesn't that fit into your example too? I'm sure this will end up being similar in some industries and not in others. And yes, other countries may require it to enter their country, but that's on them. Also, this is a big deal right now because case rates are high, but if enough be recover from this and the other get the vaccine, the rates should drop fast...making the vaccine requirement moot (herd immunity).

In general, you can say that about a lot of things we require as Americans. I can't get a job without a residence, ID, education and basic hygiene. I can't buy a car without insurance and a drivers license. I can't buy a burger without pants on at a restaurant either. Are those all examples of "mandatory without making it mandatory" too? I'm not being literal and half making a joke, but you know what I mean.

We all make concessions and adjustments to lead a normal life. If this becomes a requirement, it's just another brick in the wall, not a whole new wall.

One of the differences being, buying a burger without pants won't kill over 300,000 people.

It amazes me how somehow people think it's "their right" to possibly infect and even kill their fellow Americans. I think they need to find a better argument to stand on.

It's not your right to risk harm to others by neglectful conduct.

It's interesting, looking back on all the times I've interacted with people at work, family parties or at the grocery store, it explains a lot about a person.

I can think of many examples of greeting someone at a New Years Eve party and it going like this:

Me: "Hey autie!"
Aunt: "It's been so long, give me a hug and kiss" *hug and kiss on cheek*
Me: "How are you doing?"
Aunt: "Not so well, I've been super sick. I was off work all last week."

I want to punch them and say, "Hey jerk, I'm taking meds that compromise my immune system. You could put me in the hospital or worse." The "worse" isn't likely, but it's not a 0% chance.

And of course, there are other people, like me, that would warn the person reaching in for a handshake or hug. I've always been that person. Sure, prior to Covid, it was a "harmless" cold or flu, although we know they aren't truly harmless, but you know what I mean. I would avoid people because I didn't want to give anyone my bug, because it sick being is horrible.

Some people don't care or think it's just part of being a human (you get sick, build your immune system and you're better for it later).

Kind of along the same lines as what you're saying...

The weirdest thing for me through this whole COVID thing has been not shaking hands or hugging people when I normally would... and is something I'm STILL catching myself nearly doing.

mask? Easy
distancing? Easy
modifying schedule/routines to lessen exposure? doable

But not shaking hands with someone when we meet or hugging family after not seeing them for a while? dang near impossible

I'm not anti-vaccine.. hell I went to Africa last February (right before the pandemic started going nuts in America, in fact I was less than a week from starting to be worried if I could get back) and I got shot up with all kinds of stuff because I had to. I got my flu shot in November. I will get this vaccine too, I'm just not in a rush to be first..

The thing is, if you want to wait to see if there are any issues... you're going to have to wait for a little while.

Basically, waiting a month or two really isn't going to make any difference.

Actually, for the majority of us it will be months before it will be our turn to get the vaccine. By then we will have a very good idea of how safe it is. For the general population the predictions seem to be some time between April and June.

My thought process at this time is that I would prefer the Moderna over the Pfizer vaccine. The Pfizer vaccine must be stored at around eighty to ninety degrees below zero F. The Moderna vaccine can be stored at refrigerator temperatures. I would be more likely to feel secure with a vaccine that can be far more easily stored and shipped.

Eh... I see what you're saying. I didn't think about the monitoring of the front-liners while we're waiting... that's a really good point.

Still, there are a couple key populations (pregnant women, kids) that still won't have a good pool of data.

We were just informed that we'll be getting the Moderna vaccine at our facility....like very soon. We were also told that we are responsible for doing our own research before receiving it (whatever that means, we were not told where to look). As of now, it is not mandatory.

Was it the Astrazenica clinical trial that had the worst data of the 3 (poorly organized trial)?

j/c...

Moderna vaccine is reportedly 94% effective, which is very high for a new vaccine... obviously time will tell.

Reinfection rate, according to CDC is "rare" (they seem to be taking great strides to avoid the subject).

I don't think there will be any way to justify requiring people who have already had the virus get the vaccine. I know I'll be in no hurry.

I know the rate of effectiveness isn't nearly as good as Pfizer or Moderna. At least according to the last reports that I saw.

The results confirm that two standard doses of the vaccine were 62% effective in preventing symptomatic Covid-19 disease in some trials. But when efficacy data from the trials were combined — including trials in which volunteers received a low dose followed by a standard dose of vaccine — the vaccine was deemed to be 70% efficacious.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/12/08/deta...erate-efficacy/

Both Pfizer and Moderna are in the 94% to 95% range in efficacy.

I remember that, but I believe it's far easier to distribute/transport.

The thing I'm talking about is that there were major questions about how the clinical trial was conducted.

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/26/939367422...-admits-a-mista

I get my first shot tomorrow... if I turn into a zombie I want y'all to know I appreciate all of you on this message board.....

On the bright side Zombies can't get covid.

Braaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiinnnnnssssssss .........

Here's the primary difference between the accepted mandatory vaccinations like the MMR and something like Covid... those other diseases are typically ones that the public at large can be susceptible and suffer from. The data shows that deaths involving Covid are heavily reliant on comorbidity risk factors.

Although they act like it, Covid is not like small pox or something that will run rampant through a town and wipe out most of the population regardless risk factors.

Once we get the vaccine supply and distribution chain dialed in there's no reason not to treat it like we do the flu shot especially if the Covid vaccine is significantly more effective than your annual flu shot.

Good luck.

According to a friend of mine, who is a doctor, this may not be about personal preference but the market will gravitate toward the one that can be shipped and stored most conveniently.. so, if you are correct and I'll just take your word for it, Moderna might win out for mass distribution on that fact alone since it's very expensive and inefficient to ship and store things at sub-zero.

j/c...

My brother will receive the Moderna vaccine tomorrow. As a frontline worker, he's eager to get inoculated.

From everything I've seen, the Moderns vaccine can be stored at refrigerator temperatures while the Pfizer vaccine must be stored at about 80 degrees below zero. It's the main reason that more rural hospitals are receiving the Moderna vaccine. They simply lack the resources for the ultra cold storage requirements of the Pfizer vaccine.

Small, rural hospitals relying on Moderna COVID-19 vaccine

https://www.kcrg.com/2020/12/17/small-rural-hospitals-relying-on-moderna-covid-19-vaccine/

Thanks Pit.. and as they ramp up the mass roll out, which I'm assuming will be available at places like CVS and Walgreens, the ability to store in a refrigerator will be equally important.

Still alive... my arm was sore for days... and i was really fatigued the day after... actually took a nap which I never do.

I've heard side effects are worse with the second dose.. we'll see.

Getting my first vaccine tomorrow morning. Happy New Year!!

Great news Jules!

Just got the first Moderna vaccine this morning. No side effects so far.

Damn... I still wait...
....I’m just a nurse though.

I really hope I get it offered within the next couple of weeks.

I’m sorry to hear that, Portland. Have they not received the vaccine yet, or do you know what the reason is that you haven’t been vaccinated or scheduled?

It’s starting to make its way into the nursing homes. I don’t work directly in a facility. I’m an ancillary nurse. I go into a bunch of facilities all over the city to see clients. My guess is they’ll get the facility staffs and residents vaccinated first. Then the ancillary types of nurses, hospice/home health/wound care, will be next... I hope.

Ok. Hopefully very soon.

You'd think they'd want to stop folks like you potentially courier'ing it to all the different facilities.

I agree, but I don’t make the rules.
From day one I’ve worked diligently to keep myself healthy, my discipline with PPE use strong, and my personal social life/social circle small. I do this because if I get sick, especially asymptomatic, I don’t want to be the vector that carries this from facility to facility. While not being employed by a facility directly is nice, as it provides me more autonomy, it also exposes me to far more people. Therefore increasing my risk of exposure.
The more these facilities get their staff and residents vaccinated the safer they become from me. I’ll take that relief from pressure. Not that it’ll change my behaviors but at least it’ll lesson my fear of harming others.
In time the facilities will likely start requiring outside providers to be vaccinated to come in. I hope I get mine before that outside ‘pressure’ is needed.
That said I’d gladly take a step back in line if I could give my vaccine to my mom. She’s my biggest concern. COVID would likely be her end. She’s has a great active life but also has the types of comorbidities that COVID preys on. I’d likely recover if I got sick... I’d lose her if she did.
That’s the type of reality that keeps me up at night.

It's been a week since the injection. Other than the site being sore for a few days, no side effects. We received notice 2 days ago that everyone in the organization can now register for a time to receive the vaccine, including non-frontline workers. Our facility really had their act together quickly getting the vaccine to a large number of people.

Portland, you should be getting it very soon. Yesterday, Lucas county put out a registration page for all citizens to sign up for the vaccine. That is the only way to do it...get an infrastructure in place with registration for dates and times to receive it. The walk-in for senior citizens turned out to be a real disaster in Florida.

I got a call from HR yesterday asking if I want the vaccine. So I guess my office is trying to get it arranged. Still no timeline given, but at least I know they’re working towards the goal.

The hospital system I am working with has been excellent also. They set us up for our second vaccine during the 15 minutes they were monitoring us, I immediately received the email with the date and time as I waited there. They are getting huge numbers done. I wish everyone could be as efficient as they have been.

Ummmmm, yeah, anything that the government is giddy for me to do, I'm pretty such I'll do the exact opposite.

I don't trust the government to do anything in anyway shape or form. I especially don't take advice from them!!! Lolololol

You’ll show ‘em!!

He wouldn't even eat their cheese.