DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield part IV a New Hope

I don't know if the numbers are correct, but that isn't the point. Your point is correct.

We just have to figure out when spending the money is going to put the team in to the best position possible as we move forward.

My comment was more towards re-signing some players. Your seems to me more towards FA outside the current team.

I don't disagree, though we still need to throw some caution to the wind IMO.

Unlike a aging team you are going to have to rebuild in a year or two, who can go all in because a rebuild is going to happen no matter what, we are still young enough we also need to keep a eye on the future. We have a chance to sustain for a good number of years.

Doing that probably means we do walk away from a few players who a team on their last legs might keep.

I think we are in a good position to sustain continued success for maybe the next 8 years or so.

The strategy I think will change this year due to the cap coming down.

I think you can wait out the start of FA to a degree if there is someone you really really want then yes sign them ASAP.

But this year I think I would run my draft and fill in through FA after I see what I can get done in the draft. Many teams are headed for cap hell that means less competition for the available FA. Thus you can wait longer and buy cheaper IMO.

Only bad thing about this, is college football was a mess this year. Some players only played a few games, others none. A lot of evaluation is going to come from older film. No combine, means not many face to face visits. It is going to be tough evaluating character, among other things. In person meetings are very valuable.

Do we know if colleges are going to have pro days?

Just from what I've heard, they are going to be few. Mostly on field, with all meetings virtual. I don't know if this is a fact, just what I've heard on a few radio shows.

The colleges are going to have Pro Days. They are even going to be more important than usual as there is no traditional combine so each Pro Day is like a mini combine.

Baker Mayfield part 4.
Listen a second Cleveland,

New York told you 1 million times.

Baker just needs a healthy defense.

If nobody has noticed, I’ve been completely on the bandwagon now since the end of that bad weather raiders game we lost. He made me a believer.

Now the defense has to make be a believer cause we got guys on that side of the ball who are made of glass. I’m not saying we could’ve beaten the bills in the AFC championship game.....

But I am saying we should’ve beaten the chiefs with any sort of competent defense and got see mayfield vs Allen.

But Berry needs to figure out how to sign baker and Chubb without completely wrecking the cap, because we are now officially in a championship window.

I've always been a believer ... 2019 had me concerned but I always felt that Freddie was the biggest factor in Baker's regression ... Baker owned his apparent lack of 100% commitment, but man, Freddie was a total train wreck. This year I always felt like KS had taken Baker back to basics to get a foundation moving forward. I can't wait to see Bake in the same offense 2 years running with a proper offseason, preseason etc... It should be pretty flipping fun.

Yeah I agree. Freddie was in over his head, couldn’t marry his playcalling to the game planning, and came off generally as unpolished and unprepared. Baker did come across as though he expected things to just pick up from where they left off in 2018. That, combined with Freddie neglecting to call an offense to his strengths and abandoned the game plan made in for a regression.

Stefanski is very detail oriented and very prepared. He’s not a rah rah kind of personality, but he strikes me as someone who holds people accountable because of how much he works and how hard he prepares. If you walk into a meeting with him unprepared, I’d imagine you’d walk out feeling like an idiot, and he’s not going to try and be your best friend to make you feel better about it either.

I thought it was pretty clear he knew Baker had some bad habits after 2019 and that things needed to be brought back to the basics. I imagine he especially thought that after game 1 of 2020. For the first stretch of the season, he called a lot of plays to Baker’s strengths and relied heavily on the run game to win, which it did, luckily. It was a good way to build comfort and confidence.

I felt like he wanted to let Baker go like that for as long as he could, until he needed to step up and win a game, which happened in the second half of game 2 against the Bengals. I think that was the tipping point. The playcalling after that went from being almost completely PA and misdirection to actually putting him in a shotgun with an empty backfield. Baker took to those new challenges pretty well.

Hopefully that trajectory continues.

I have no idea how much the cap is going to come down.. but is it possible that the marquee FAs this year are looking for short term deals (1-2 years) so they can renegotiate if/when things get back to normal and the cap begins to go back up?

Or as the GM do you backload the 4-5 year deal and then just hope like hell the cap goes back up so you can afford it?

Risky either way, it's just which side is willing to take the risk.

NY told you 1 million times to draft Sam Darnold with the #1 overall pick

and they also demanded you take Bradley Chubb at #4 overall,

Both of which would have been horrible mistakes.

New York does not have your best interest in mind.
Remember.

Last time I checked, Bradley Chubb was a more reliable player than Denzel Ward. Pro Bowl player last year....

Horrible... definitely not, I know horrible, and that is not it.... Brandon Weeden or Johnny Football was horrible, this was not horrible.

When Ward is playing he might be more valuable than Chubb. That's a matter of conjecture. However, if Bradley Chubb was on our team playing opposite of Myles, wow, that would be quite a pass rushing Duo. Each would make the other a better player. JMO

I have always placed high value on corners.

I like Hospital Ward except he seems to be out much of the time. Let's hope those days are over.

He's not out as much as it may seem lately. He was really good for us this year, and as nice as it would be to see a Bradley Chubb across from Myles, I prefer having Ward. For the most part, he takes away half the field. That's crazy valuable and makes every other CB that much better as they cover someone lesser. I think it's harder to find a Ward than a Chubb. I also think we need that level of dominance inside at DT more than out at DE. Bring Ogun's side up to Richardson's level of play and almost anyone if going to look solid at that other DE spot.... we'd just need to get someone that can set the edge and play great run defense while being an average pass rusher.

j/c

I really, really wanted Baker #1. Chubb #4.

Putting Chubb opposite MG had me thinking great things.

When we picked Ward and when I saw him play - I was more than happy and I have been ever since. He played far to reckless his first year. He's had some injuries. He got hit by Covid this year. . . . When he plays, he is elite. You can't ask for more than that. I do not think he's been injured enough to label him prone or a liability.

We definitely need another edge rusher. Myles is great but he can't do it alone. Imagine what a force he would be with another good pass rusher opposite of him. WOW!!!

I vaguely recall wanting the same thing, actually... but, I'm plenty happy with what we have.

I guess the order of preference may vary from person to person, but I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that we all feel we need one more stud DE, DT, and CB.

If we can get that and then add in an above average LB, this defense will be TOUGH.

We get a few guys back, but I'd say that they should all be considered unknowns. Delpit & Greedy are gigantic question marks. Billings wasn't injured, but like Delpit & Greedy, he has now been out of football for over a year. Has he been doing work? He wasn't going to be a starter, anyway, so he shouldn't be viewed as a solution. He was and will be a rotational guy... we need better. At a minimum, we need Sheldon Richardson's equivalent.

If Barmore is there you have to take him. He is a force of nature.

Agreed. But we may have to burn our first 4th round pick and some extra cheddar (like a 5th or 6th next year) to move up to 21. The Colts trade down a lot.

Ideally, we find passable/acceptable solutions in free agency and we don't care about trading up and instead just let the Draft come to us.

Then we can just take a DE wherever it is we are and groom him over the next year or two and hopefully he becomes a solid part of the rotation.


At DE, our baseline/minimum for what we're looking for in terms of performance level is Olivier Vernon. That's the starting point. Lesser is not worth much of anything because we already have that.

Additionally, while Ogun could be called the minimum at DT, he isn't... Richardson is the minimum acceptable level. If we get a DE equivalent to Vernon and add another DT next to Richardson that is at LEAST as good as he is, we will do quite well.

The fact that we are NOT the same old Browns would lead me to believe that FA will consider coming here much more than they did before. Even when we were bad FA did sign with us but I have to believe many more will now be willing. JMO

Who knows, maybe Curtis Weaver will come in and at least be...err...Jabal Sheard-esque?

Maybe?

At least he had more than two pass-rush moves in college. This DE class is starting to worry me. It's all bull rush and swim moves. A few guys have bend but they are undersized and the only proper spin move I've seen so far came from Ojulari (238 lbs) and that cat from Miami who had more injuries than Tim Couch. Rashad Weaver has good technique and balance but he's about as twitched up as my middle-aged butt.

Seriously, I'm not even high on Greg Rousseau anymore. It's all good that he can swim move past a guard, but man, does he lack technique.

Unless Ojulari weighs in at 250+ (unlikely), I'm not sure if I trust any of the guys who may be available at 26.

Maybe I'm just too used to picking in the top 5

There will be a HOT trade market this year, too, as teams that will be ridiculously over the cap try to get something for the talent they will have to otherwise release.

So, we might be able to score something there, then we are sitting nicely as a good destination for incoming free agents.... we're a team on the rise AND we have cap space and are well managed.

Are Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary, Dick Butkus, Ray Lewis, Jack Lambert, Jack Ham or Derrick Thomas available?

We'd be better off with Scooby Wright and Jamie Collins.

https://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-brow...im-an-extension

Defending Baker Mayfield: Why wouldn't the Cleveland Browns give him an extension?
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Jake Trotter
ESPN Staff Writer
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BEREA, Ohio – In the wake of Jared Goff and Carson Wentz being dealt away from the teams that drafted them, the same phrase has begun to reverberate with regards to the Cleveland Browns and their quarterback, Baker Mayfield.

“Cautionary tales.”

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Two years ago, Goff and Wentz, the top two picks of the 2016 draft, signed the richest contract extensions in NFL history. Yet just this month, the two were jettisoned before those record extensions had even kicked in, leaving their former teams with record heaps of dead-money blows to their respective cap sheets.

This offseason, another former top pick is extension-eligible coming off a banner third season quarterbacking his team to the playoffs. And yet, some are wondering if the Browns should kick the can down the road on a Mayfield extension, largely because Goff and Wentz cratered soon after signing theirs.


Critics will point to Baker Mayfield's inconsistency over the years, but his 2020 production led the Browns to the playoffs for the first time in 18 years. Scott R. Galvin/USA TODAY Sports
Of course, that’s a rather fatalistic viewpoint of Mayfield and the Browns. And one focused on events elsewhere, instead of the facts on the ground in Cleveland.

True, Goff and Wentz regressed for various reasons after enjoying success early in their careers. But that doesn’t mean Mayfield will follow suit. In fact, all signs point to him getting better -- next season and beyond.

For the first time since the Browns drafted him in 2018, Mayfield won’t have to dedicate his offseason to learning yet another new offense. After playing for three different head coaches over his first two seasons in the league, Mayfield thrived during the back-half of last season in first-time head coach Kevin Stefanski’s scheme, portending their budding future together.

“That’s a huge part of this,” Stefanski said last month, while revealing how thrilled Mayfield was to finally begin growing within the same offense. “We can start at that baseline and that foundation and build on what we’ve done.”

Mayfield had some rough moments early while adapting to Stefanski’s offense following a virtual offseason learning it. But from Week 7 through Week 15, just last year’s MVP (Patrick Mahomes) and this year’s MVP (Aaron Rodgers) posted a better QBR than Mayfield, who during that stretch tossed 15 touchdowns with just two interceptions. As a result, the Browns wound up finishing the regular season with 11 wins, their most since returning to the NFL in 1999.

“Once he started getting comfortable with what we were doing and once I was using more concepts that he was comfortable with, which is a big part of this,” Stefanski said, “he really started playing at a high level.”

Mayfield continued to play at a high level in the postseason, throwing for 263 yards and three touchdowns without an interception in Cleveland’s first playoff victory in 26 years, a 48-37 win in Pittsburgh -- where the Browns had not won in 17 attempts.

“You saw growth from him as a player from the first game to the last,” Stefanski said. “Really pleased with his progress, and I think he recognizes that he has room to grow.”

Best of NFL Nation

• Wouldn't Browns extend Baker Mayfield?
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Any extension to any NFL player comes with at least some risk, as the cases of Goff and Wentz underscore. But at this point, the Browns either believe in Mayfield -- or they don’t, at least not yet.

Cleveland already demonstrated that belief last offseason, committing a franchise-record $60 million in guaranteed money in free agency to upgrade Mayfield’s supporting cast, with All-Pro right tackle Jack Conklin and Pro Bowl tight end Austin Hooper, plus veteran quarterback Case Keenum, to serve as Mayfield’s mentor.

The Browns also used the 10th pick in the draft on left tackle Jedrick Wills Jr. to solidify the offensive line. With vastly improved protection and a scheme befitting his skill set, Mayfield rekindled the confidence and touch he flashed during his first season when he broke the NFL rookie record with 27 touchdown passes. He also emerged as the unquestioned leader of the locker room.

Given the upward trajectory of Mayfield and the Browns, there’s nothing to suggest Cleveland won’t double-down again on the former No. 1 overall pick in the coming months.

The Browns already will have to make a partial commitment to Mayfield this summer. As colleague Dan Graziano pointed out, starting with Mayfield’s 2018 draft class, fifth-year options for first-round picks are now fully guaranteed at the time they're executed, at a significantly higher price than before.


In Nick Chubb and Baker Mayfield the Browns seemingly finally have their franchise running back and quarterback. Daniel Dunn/Icon Sportswire
But going halfway and pushing off an extension invites downside, too. What if Mayfield is better in 2021? A potential extension would cost the Browns even more down the line, as Tim Hasselbeck noted on ESPN this week. That would only make it more difficult to get one done at all.

On Wednesday, ESPN colleague Ed Werder suggested that the Dallas Cowboys might have to use their first-round pick on another quarterback, if they can’t lock up Dak Prescott to a multiyear deal before March 9. Returning to square one at quarterback is not where Cleveland wants to be again anytime soon.

To get a deal done with Mayfield this summer, the Browns probably will have to start in the neighborhood of $35 million over four years. That would make Mayfield one of the five highest-paid quarterbacks in the league, pending what happens with Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, who also are extension eligible.

But others down the line, like Mayfield’s former Oklahoma teammate Kyler Murray, are going to continue to reset the quarterback market next offseason. What might seem expensive now could quickly become a bargain, especially as the league negotiates new rights deals.


The Goff and Wentz situations also showed that even the worst-case scenario can still be mitigated. The Rams were able to turn Goff into Matthew Stafford; the Eagles flipped Wentz into draft capital. Sure, the cap sheets in Los Angeles and Philadelphia will be a mess this year as a result of those trades. But if Mayfield proves not to be the answer at quarterback, the Browns will already be in short-term trouble anyway, whether they extend him or not.

Franchise quarterbacks are incredibly hard to find, and it's virtually impossible to win without one, as Cleveland has had to painfully learn over the years. Now is not the time to get cute, dodge about or worry why it might go wrong, just because it did in Philly or L.A.

The Browns appear -- finally -- to have their franchise quarterback. Acting otherwise could prove to be a cautionary tale of its own.

I agree 100% he is a winner, he is so Cleveland, he is a leader and his teammates do anything for him.

I can't wait for him to win it.

Exactly. He was born for Cleveland and I can't wait until next year when we beat the hell out of the Chiefs in the Championship Game next year in Cleveland.

Bill Connelly ranked the top 60 college football Quarterbacks of the 2000's. #1...Baker Mayfield. ESPN .

Beauty post, eotab.

JC


Sometimes I think many posters aren't living in reality and somehow expect some sort of super human playing QB for the Browns.

I understand some were ass chapped because we drafted the guy, but the rash should be healed by now.

I don't think Baker is the best QB in the league and don't think he ever will be. What I do think is he is more than good enough to help this team win championships.

That works for me, and should work for everyone else.

I'm convinced. Baker is a fetish of his.