DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Biden calls to raise the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour

This from the party of insurrectionist, QAnon, and fascist is just priceless. lmao, you gonna need some new material there throw long jr.

Did you take your delusional meds yet? Are you still trying to spread unity by canceling anyone who disagrees with you?

I don't want unity with fascists. I want them hunted down and cancelled for life. Then we can talk about unity with the semi sane GOPers that remain. I know not all on the right are traitors and fascists, but there are enough to make this purge mission critical.

OH, and deprogramming for GOPers who can't decipher the truth from fantasies and conspiracy theories, we need lots of that.

There's loney bins for the fringe left and their delusions.

You need a time out pal. I don't see anybody looking down on people who work at Wendy's or wherever. Let's keep the argument real here.

You can go back and see where I have said multiple times I don't have a problem with people making money. If $15 is the magic number, make it $15.

My point is whatever is the bottom number a working person can make, it will soon enough not be enough.

The problem is we are trying to boot jobs into careers that were never intended to be careers. Some jobs are stepping stones. It's not the local Wendy's fault that people can't find better jobs for one reason or another.

If this action is a stepping stone to help folks until the real problems can be addressed and fixed, great.

I am just afraid it's not. It never has.

The problem with wages is ours are already high. Not for here mind you, but high compared to places like Bangladesh, and places like those are where jobs that can sustain a family are filtering.

Most people on here didn't like President Trump. Heck, I don't like the guy, but he took on China. That is where the jobs are going and he took that on front and center. The playing field isn't level when we pay our workforce $15 a hour or more and they pay their work force $15 a day. That is the problem, and unlike a few, you are smart enough to know that.

Here in Tennessee there was once a thriving industry manufacturing shoes. There isn't any longer. You can drive through the smaller towns and see factory after factory closed that once employed people in the shoe industry. It can be debated if they were paid enough, but they were paid enough to make their living.

That is the problem we face and people need to wake up to that fact. It's not that minimum wage is too low. Fixing minimum wage is simply window dressing. it sounds and looks good. It drives votes, but it doesn't fix a darn thing.

I disagree completely. I don’t need a time out, you need a wake up call.

Y’all been against rising the minimum wage for decades. The cost of living skyrockets and yet you won’t demand the government adjust with it.

Sure, the minimum wage isn’t everything, but it is the MINIMUM we can do to start getting somewhere to fix the issues.

But guys like you whine and whine about the minimum wage to the point that it never gets changed. Remember the minimum wage SHOULD be around 22/h, and here you are whining about 15.

The minimum wage isn’t the reason why manufacturing left. Manufacturing left because guys like you begged/voted in politicians to deregulate businesses and cut the absolute crap out of their taxes. Guys like literally encouraged them to ship jobs overseas to cut expenses in the name of pro growth policies.

I mean surprise surprise Peen. A company learned that they can go pay some Asian dude a couple bucks a day, use cheaper material, and still save money on logistic expenses selling the product back in America?

Who wouldn’t do that when conservatives are literally begging you to?

“Oh wait, y’all actually want me to fire you and give this job to some dude in India so I can make more profit? I mean...cool thanks bro. Good luck on that job search lololol”

That’s how ridiculous you conservatives have been the last 30 years. Literally voting for your own demise.

It would be funny if it wasn’t so destructive.

It would be easy for me to say it is people like you who demanded cheaper products and Wal-Mart came to the rescue with their cheap imported goods, but I won't.

How accurate would that be?

If it’s so easy, prove it.

Because it was the corporations marketing that very thing. Ya know “we’re trying to pass the savings on to the consumer”

That’s what your corporate overlords marketed to the people.

Imagine fighting so hard to defend corporate practices that makes it clear they despise you.

You might not say it, but I will: that’s beyond pathetic.

But hey, that’s why you and I will never get along. Cause I will never know what it’s like to look down on others so much that you rather pay slave wages than pay Americans a decent wage.

You can continue this convo with YTown if you want. He clearly despises others just like you do. We won’t be getting anywhere.

My dad died at 63 years of age. He didn't get one damn dime of SS or Medicare which he paid into. There are lots of those stories out there.

Where does that money go?

LOl...whatever.


OH...Wal-mart does pass the saving along in lower prices. The problem is China doesn't. China might be producing the shoes for $20 less, but they aren't selling them to Wal-Mart at wholesale for $20 less.

The last pair of walking shoes I bought came to a bit over $200. New Balance. Made in the USA. It is a good shoe.
https://www.newbalance.com/pd/mens-made-in-us-993/MR993V1-10103-M.html

They sell shoes not made in the USA at various price points well below that.

Why is that? Is it because the show made domestically is vastly superior or is it because New Balance can buy them much cheaper from foreign manufacture points?

To take it further, is it because the US shoes materials are vastly superior, making them more expensive, or is it because the cost of labor making said shoe is more expensive?

We know the answer to that, so don't give me the crap. I buy the more expensive shoe made in the USA because I feel that keeping Americans working in jobs that pay better than working in a Wendy's at minimum wage is more important to me then the extra money I might be spending on a pair of shoes.

I feel that if I don't buy those shoes, then I am not doing my part to keep those folks in jobs and those companies alive. If they shutter the doors, there goes another group of American workers headed to the local Wendy's to try to make a living.

That is why I said I don't have a problem with a raise in minimum wage. I am still going to buy a burger or whatever at the new inflated price. I have been fortunate, I can pay those prices. The person at minimum wage still won't be any better off over time.

Like I said many posts back, minimum wage when I took my first job as a 15 year old, minimum was $1.15 per hour. It's a good thing I didn't stay at that level.

Like I said before, I am not demeaning people stuck at that level, we have to fix the reasons why they are stuck, and it isn't as simple as pointing fingers at greedy corporations.

Here is a reason that could be fixed. Business caters to customers needs. Maybe people need to put down their phones and go back to stores to buy their stuff. How many people working retail jobs have lost their jobs because people want to just order online?

I am not going to sit here and tell you I have never ordered online, but it isn't much, and when it is it is usually because I can't buy it locally. It is usually some spice blend or something of that nature that I purchase directly from the source. I can say I have Never ordered anything from Amazon. The only clothers i order online come from LLBean. No stores in this area sell LL Bean.

sigh....

tell us, Peen. how often do you buy walking shoes? (definitely showing your age with that sentence, by the way)

is your car american made with atleast 70% of material made in the US? how about your everyday products? your cell phone? your computer?

you can't just buy one or two things made in america and declare yourself pro-american, especially since you go out and vote for politicians who support companies outsourcing jobs, closing factories here and reopening overseas.

That like me voting for republicans who help corporations move overseas and mexico, buy a Ford and declare that i'm doing my part. it doesn't work like that. it's NEVER worked like that.

i love Ram and absolutely plan on spending all my cash on that new 1500 TRX in a few years to have it. that doesn't make me pro-american worker. that just means i like the brand.

it seems like you have a very limited understanding as to why companies outsource. not only does it reduce labor cost to the company, but they also get tax benefits such as not paying payroll taxes, as well as not having to give out healthcare benefits that they would otherwise have to here in America.

ya know, thats the main reason why a lot of companies you try to call over the phone has a guy/girl clearly from india answering your phone calls. and thats IF you don't have to bother with the automation/chat box system first. These companies will look for ANY method to reduce cost.

if they can get away with indentured servitude, they absolutely will. its a damn shame that you're 70+ and still haven't learned that by now. they don't want to pay anybody crap if they don't have to, and thanks to you and other conservatives demanding that their businesses get deregulated and have their taxes lowered, you helped them not ONLY get away with outsourcing overseas;

with the tax cuts, you helped them pay for it, too. you and your republican support literally helped them finance their way to china and fire american workers.

congrats on buying the NB's though. i'm sure that helps you sleep at night.

Make fun all you want.

The example works perfectly.

except it doesn't.

Sure it does. It shows that products made in America cost way more over foreign good, primarily because those goods are made with slave labor wages.

People complain about slave wages here. Sorry that is a non-starter for me.

Again, I am not against US workers making more money. I don't want groups of Americans living in substandard condition. Pie for all!

I am simply saying it hasn't worked for maybe the last 60 years, so I don't have much hope it will work now.

I guess that shows my age as well...it is what it is, we all get older until we die.

Here's the thing for me...

I have no argument that the min wage has to go up. It absolutely does. The sticking point for me is how much. Since it hasn't gone up in a while, when it does it's probably going to be a big jump.

If the powers that be can show that $15/hr IS actually that magic number, then two thumbs up from me.

The federal min wage should be the hourly rate paid in a lower (if not the lowest) CoL area of the country, with each individual states evaluating their own min wage from there based on their own CoL. States that slack on re-evaluating and keeping up with their own min wage should be 'incentivized' not to do so.

My .02.... just because we have a problem (stupid low minimum wage) doesn't mean we have to overcorrect and create more problems when we fix 1.

You keep repeating the same thing over and over. We get it, you think $15hr. May be too much of a jump.

Let’s see, from $7.20hr to $15hr = $7.80 hr difference. Spread that out over 12 years since last raising the federal min. That equates to a .65 cent per hour raise annually. Bro. $15 dollars an hr isn’t close to a fair wage today but manageable.

Just curious, does anybody have any specifics on this plan? I can't seem to find anything...

What is the time span?

Are there incremental deadlines?

What are the exceptions?

I get what you’re saying, but you have to understand that your last sentence has been used by those in power as an excuse to not doing anything in the first place.

And now look where we’re at. At some point, the bandaid has to be ripped off. Government under the thumb of big corporations have used your same exact logic to keep wages suppressed for over a generation, if not longer.

At some point, it’s gotta get corrected. Trying to baby these companies is exactly why we are currently in this crap show.

We’ve given these clowns tax cuts and deregulated them, and they still whining about paying people a decent wage. At some you’re gonna realize it ain’t about them surviving as a business, but about greed.

A lot of these business or poorly run in the first place, and their inability to properly run a business and budget correctly as an excuse to suppress wages has gone on long enough. There will be companies/restaurants who open up to replace those poorly managed.

Like it always has.

I thought the plan was laid out fairly well. It’s to raise the fed min to $15hr. It doesn’t change anything else as in the fed min wage laws already on the books but maybe be some contingency plans moving forward. Atleast something going to get done soon.

Laid out where? I missed it. I'm asking about specifics... when does it start, what is the time-frame for completion (or is it just "minimum wage is $15 an hour starting NOW!). Are there exceptions or does any 16 year old working at DD get $15 per hour?

Yes. Stop using age as a reason to discriminate on wages. Work is work no matter how young are old you are.

A couple of thoughts.

The minimum wage has become as big of a political football that may be as large as the federal gas tax which has not increased since 1994.

At some point in time, someone is going to realize that shipping everything from China to America has an environmental impact. I am more neutral on tariffs and taxes because I think that the race to the bottom is not a good thing.

It is like hiring an employee, and then signing them up for food stamp/Medicaid and other subsistence programs, because the company does not want to pay for the benefits.

I'm not sure that "having a plan to implement it" would make any real difference. If it could be mandated via an Executive Order, yes it would.

But we all know that this will be a process that goes through the house and senate. A bill will have to be written and then there will be revisions to the bill as it goes along. That's just how the process works.

Any fixed plan as to how it all gets implemented at this juncture would be no more than an exercise in futility.

The cost of living has gone up and those at the bottom should be making more money...

I tend to agree with Peen though, my daughter is 17, senior in HS, she doesn't NEED to make $15/hour. There needs to be a classification, somehow to differentiate her from a 20 year old who is on their own, perhaps with a child...

I honestly struggle with the answer because I get frustrated when I see the articles.. "We need to raise minimum wage, this 21 year old with no skills and 2 children is having trouble getting by working at Dunkin Donuts".. so I kept asking people to define "livable wage" and nobody can. Is it for a young single person? A young single person with 3 kids?

As a person who hires people, if I'm trying to hire an administrative assistant, I'm paying them what the position is worth.. I'm not even ALLOWED to ask them if they have a second source of family income, or if they have children, or if they have other financial help.... I could have two applicants of equal ability, one would be thrilled with the hourly rate, the other couldn't get by on it.. how am I supposed to know? so should I pay everybody based on worst case scenario? How is that supposed to work?

I'm all for younger people not starting behind the 8 ball financially.. I'm all for SS meeting more of the needs of the retired..

But to deny that there will be issues with this and that it won't be the utopia that some people think it will is just wrong... prices will go up, prices of everything..

Business will find new ways to automate. Those in the professional class making $100K/ year will get no raise out of this but their standard of living will go down so they will be forced to spend less money on restaurants, entertainment, travel.. businesses will close and people will lose jobs.

None of that means we shouldn't try to find ways to get better... I'm all for that.

And Swish, I waited tables for a long time years ago.. yes, I got screwed every once in a while but I consistently outearned all of my friends who held other jobs in retail or whatever else young people did. Sometimes the waiter takes the hit because the food isn't right or the wait is too long, stuff they have almost NO control over.. but more often than not, if you are a good server, you will make more money than most jobs like that. Not everybody has the mentality or the temperament to be a good server or a good bartender or anything else that is dependent on tips, but those who do make better money. The tipping culture is a great way to seperate those who are good at it from those who are not. Servers have such a high turnover because so many people think it will be easy and they will make big $$.. it's not easy and if you aren't good at it you don't make big $$.. so they quit.

That is a good point DC. People who are motivated make more than minimum wage almost all the time.

Yet I don't ever once remember you bitching that old folks who are getting screwed by SS not increasing our income.

I could be wrong as my short term memory sucks, but whyno love for old folks bud?

He actually did just a bit up this page..

In theory what you say sounds very good on paper. But let's look at how such a thing would work when implemented.

First, as an employer why would I ever hire someone who was a single mom? Why would I choose to hire someone living on their own if I could hire a high school kid making far less on the hour? Sure I would need to hire enough capable people to oversee those kids, but beyond that I would do everything in my power to keep the bulk of my workforce to high school kids. I may even go as far as to offer bonuses to those kids who can refer their friends to work there to lower my bottom line labor costs. It could even have a negative impact on our senior citizens working to supplement their Social Security income. We're seeing far more of them working in paces like fast food. But if I can pay a high school kid four or five dollars on the hour less, why would i hire them?

I understand that hiring people who actually "need" jobs and seniors with a lifetime of job history has its advantages, but man, that's a lot of difference in the pay scale.

And if you get right down to it, with what it costs to live these days many kids are living at home well into their twenties. So when would they qualify for the $15 an hour? Upon graduation of high school? Would they need to show a rent receipt to prove they no longer live at home that would cause them to "need" $15 an hour?

I think we would agree with the cost of college these days, books, tuition, room and board, that college students would need and deserve the $15 dollars an hour wouldn't we? Or would we?

If we do agree, then wouldn't you say that in some way you're punishing those that made the decision not to go to college? I think we can also agree that if someone is 17 and living at home, in many cases they're trying to save enough to move out when they graduate. Or save for a car, to go to college and an assortment of other things going into their future.

Can you imagine working right next to someone, doing the same job, hired in the same time frame, making a huge amount more money than you are? Surely you can see where this would make for a horrible working environment.

As I said, it sounds good on paper but it isn't as easily practically applied as it sounds.

Dude, ease up. Read the title to this thread again. It still needs to get passed thru congress and the senate like everything else unless Biden writes an executive order. And what swish said. Work is work. Pay grades aren’t related to age.

I can agree and disagree with Swish 7 days a week. While we usually disagree lol I respect his opinion. I listen to everything he posts as I can learn from him sometimes. Right or wrong (from either one of us)

So the guy who can’t drive or afford a car and now needs to supplement his/her SS and works at the mickey dees or DD’s or the mom and pop shop around the corner need to go find a better job that pays the $15hr. You people are cold. Does it ever occur to you that most people love their jobs, what ever they are doing? It’s only a demeaning job to you, because you feel they are below you and think they hate what they are doing.

Thanks for the well developed response. I have to admit I don't have all (or perhaps any) of the right answers to your concerns.. just throwing out concerns that balance the needs of business with the needs of people to make money.

Also part of my concern is that things don't happen in a vacuum, business will react.. businesses are already on record stating they will hire more part-time workers and fewer full-time workers to decrease their need to pay benefits. Automation is (and has been) on the rise for quite a while.. and I know people say, well if we automate then that will create jobs for those who build, install, and service automation equipment.. ok, but the average person would be looking for a job at McDonalds isn't the same person who is going to get a job programming robots or creating POS electronics. And the 1000s of jobs lost will be replaced by far fewer but better paying jobs..

I also struggle with the disconnect between a company having to pay a person a lot more money verses their own personal initiative to improve themselves and acquire skills that are more valuable.. Yes, it bugs me when somebody says that a person has been working at minimum wage for many years and is falling farther behind.. I just don't see how that's possible. At some point a person has take some responsibility for their own career growth, no?

So I could basically say the same thing you just said.. Raising the minimum wage by 107% sounds good on paper but isn't as easily practically applied as it sounds... there will be ripple effects that are not expected.

You bring up points that work in debates that between us consider both sides of the coin. Maybe that's why I try to have a measured and thought out response.

Many posters during this election process have been people that it is impossible to have a discussion with. There hasn't been much positive or thought out discussions and responses. For the most part there used to be a lot more actual discussion on opposing views and even people looking for a somewhat common middle ground in search of solutions.

There were times in the past where we've gone around and around. There's been times when we simply don't and won't ever see certain things the same. But we didn't consistently slap each other with negative labels. And there's a reason for that. No matter whether we disagree or not, I would never question your intent. Your beliefs are firmly entrenched in what you believe is best for our country. My beliefs are exactly the same way.

It's not about which one of us is more patriotic. It's not about one or the other having some sinister agenda to undermine democracy. It's simply about two American citizens who feel differently about the best path forward their nation should travel. And often times it ends up that on certain topics we're not that much different.

I miss that. I miss the days where people could disagree on their politics and understand they just had differing views. That just because we disagree, it doesn't make you my enemy. I worry that a huge portion of our nation will never get back to that point and it concerns me.

I'm pretty much where I've always been. You'll have the fringe element of the left like OCD claiming I'm republican lite and then you'll have the eve's of the world calling me a libtard. But I've always been fine with that and that's where I'm most comfortable. I'll never be a shill for either party or extreme and will most often stand up for those in our nation that I see that have been the most unfairly treated and left behind.

The whole flaw in this 'raise the min wage to $15' is that there are people making min. wage for years, and decades on end.

As long as they can just hold on for a year or two......

There's a long way between minimum wage and $15 an hour. Just because you are making above minimum wage doesn't really mean anything. $9 an hour is well above minimum wage. So is $10 an hour. But that doesn't make up for the cost of inflation since 2009.

Perpetuating that people who work are continually going backwards over time based on deflated wages is not what we as Americans should be doing.

Lol. Ease up? It was just a simple question. For instance, Bernie had a Healthcare plan, it was outlined pretty extensively on his website. I just wondered if there was a plan. Sorry for interrupting your shame-fest with an actual question.

Thanks. I get that. Like I said, the whole flaw in this thing is people are making min. wage for months, years, decades.

I've given examples on here already. Shoot, the local McD's (guy owns 8 of them) is starting people off at $10. And those are not full time jobs.

I have no issue with raising the fed. min. wage some. Most states already have, really.

My issue is some want to make it seem like millions of people are working full time jobs at min. wage. If you want to work a non skilled part time job, I don't feel as though you need to make a livable wage.

There are jobs available making much more than even the state mandated min wage, with full benefits, yet those jobs are going unfulfilled. At least, around here. And I know you'll come back with some smartass comment.

No, I'm not going to come back with some smart ass comment.

I've never tried to make the claim that people people live on minimum wage for years. And just as you can bring up the situation where you live, I can bring up the situation where I live. I have two grandsons and neither of them live on their own. Both of them have however worked in fast food here. They both started out at $8 dollars an hour. Now they aren't single parents. They don't have the need to make $15 an hour. But they did work with people who were single parents. Some had worked there for quite some time that still weren't making the $10 an hour that you said was the starting wage where you live.

And that's a big part of the problem. There is no standard in place. According to what you have said before, and I have no reason to doubt you, the cost of living is pretty low where you live. Maybe where you live $15 an hour has a lot more buying power than other places. That's not even close to the situation where I live. So as you can see, what wages would seem to work would vary greatly on your location.

That's why some of have been having a discussion about trying to agree on what would seem like a common sense solution that would seem fair to everyone. I even suggested that the federal government could come up with a standard to tabulate the cost of living in each state to arrive at a fair wage for each state. I'm sure that some think it should be broken down to each town or county. I don't really disagree with that in principal but that would make things far more complicated and disjointed.

My only reasoning for having the federal government coming up with a standard formula is so no matter which party is in power at that location, they can not inflate or deflate the minimum wage depending on whether they are liberal or conservative. One standard for everyone.

My main underlying point in all of this is that I don't believe any American should work 40 hours a week and not be able to afford a place to live and food to eat or not be able to afford transportation to and from work. As of this moment, wages have pretty much been frozen in time to a great extent. The answer has been to let the American taxpayer carry the burden of that through food, rent and healthcare benefits to these people's children. I'm not sure about you, but to me that's not a logical answer here.

Where we are is stuck between two political parties as per usual. One who has helped work to keep minimum wage a means of those on the bottom going backwards. One who wants to use a one size fits all to make a huge increase in minimum wage. Sadly we aren't going to find some magic balance between these two options. At this point it is what it is.