DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kevin Stefanski II

Indeed, but it was more than that. Dorsey didn't like Depo being around and in Jimmies ear. Dorsey wasn't going to hire anybody Depo might bring forward.

It all worked out.

That became readily apparent with his "muscle flexing" comment. I think it was clear that Dorsey maintained more of an adversarial relationship with Depo.

This is pure speculation on my part based on what I've seen, but Depo seems like he doesn't have much "alpha" in him, and I'm not saying that as a knock. Just that he's very reserved and lets the facts speak for themselves. In this case, I think he just let Dorsey get in his own way and bided his time.

I wouldn't phrase it as doesn't have much "alpha" as much as I would say he doesn't have as much ego, or need to pee on fences to mark his territory, but aside from terminology, I agree.

I concur. I struggle with expression sometimes.

I do not think the dynamic would have ever worked with Stefanski, Dorsey and DePo.

Dorsey's ego would not allow him to get out of his own way.

I'm happy things worked out the way it did even though a year was wasted.

I think Stefanski would've worked just fine with Dorsey... but Dorsey never would've stood for bringing him in. Pretty tragic, actually.

Hard to believe after 20 years we finally got it right.

I really don't mean to pile on the guy, and I wish him all the best, but the difference between Kitchens and Stefanski is so night and day...you have to wonder what was going on in Dorsey's mind. Kitchens was embarrassing right out of the box at his introductory press conference. I felt sorry for the Haslem's that day.

LOL...I'll never feel sorry for the Haslem's...

Are you kidding me?

There was also a rumor he was a bit embarrassing to the organization at the combine when some alcohol was involved.

I remember what a thing it was when Cowher made the playoffs in his first year as a coach.

I don't think they are losing sleep over this.

Jc

Stefanski had an overall great first year. Playoffs and a divisional round appearance.

That being said, hopefully he learned a valuable lesson in what team identity means. Because there were too many games/moments where he outsmarted himself with the play calling. We were 3rd in the league in rushing, and yet toward the end of the season he got away from it.

Running teams run the ball even when the defense knows they’re running it. It’s up to the defense to stop what you’re good at, not the other way around. Against the jets and now the chiefs, by the time we got into a rhythm running the ball, it was already too late.

But overall, great job coach.

What Stephanski did was created a team first attitude. His teams were prepared, but he had to deal with a ton of adverse situations.

Time to draft defense and go chase a ring.

Kevin Stefanski is going to win NFL Coach of the Year.

Yep - I was texting friends a half time, I liked Van Pelt calling plays better.... we seemed to fix it in the 3rd Q (way too late in a game this important) then got away from it in the 4th.

Stefanski should give the calls to Van Pelt. A little too plaid today. Pattern of poor play or dropped pass on first put us behind the sticks. Forgot to run again. And Woods.

We have upside we shouldn't have now if we had done better in the first place.

I've thought the same thing. Steelers game was a bit of an anomaly and it's easier to call plays with a 3 or 4 score lead and it's a 1 game sample size against a team that hasn't game planned for YOU calling the plays.. but even in the first quarter when we got turnovers, we scored quickly.

He wasn't gimmicky, we didn't do any reverses or those bump passes to the guy in motion.. he kept it simple and he kept going back to what was working until they stopped it. ANDDDDDDDD.. even with a big lead he stayed kind of aggressive and let Baker throw the ball some.

I agree with Swish that I think sometimes Stefanski outsmarted himself by trying to be cute and do things contrary to what he thought, they thought, we were going to do.

We were in the spot we were in because of Stefanski. He was great all season. I trust his judgment on who should be calling plays.

I agree and so will I.. it's just sometimes it's hard to be objective about yourself. Stefanski, seems like a humble enough guy, that if anybody thought AVP was a better option, he would give it up.

Absolutely. Listening to some here, we got to the playoffs not because of him, but in spite of him.

I don't know who the "some" are that you are referencing but I haven't seen it.

Wondering if AVP might be a better play caller isn't taking anything away from what Stefanski did.

I think it became obvious, Kevin Stefanski is not best at calling the plays,
evidenced every big game after the bye week,

When the stakes got highest, he went away from the run game and relied too much on the pass.

It was somewhat obvious but the announcers said last week the Browns were (way unsuccessful) when Baker had to throw more than 40?, more than too many times.

Like almost no wins.

It may be painful, but it is obvious.
The playcalling will have to be taken away from HC KS, sooner or later,

and the Steeler playoff game, with A/S VP, calling plays showed they have a capable playcaller, who can balance the run and the pass.

So Get it done,

They need, KS, to be the HC, not the playcaller,
they can cooperate, or discuss, but

Dont' want to see anymore of what makes the Browns a more beatable team.

I think the Browns are a better team going forward if VP were calling plays and KS were being the HC, and not worried about changing his thinking
every time the circumstances of the game changed for the offense.

I didn't read anything in this thread about AVP or KS and playcalling before my previous post,

So I'm not the only one who thinks so, well it is somewhat obvious.

One point I’ll make about the whole KS vs AVP calling plays:

This is just my perspective as a coach ... KS clearly made a script and/or really thought out a plan for the PIttsburgh game ... and he did it BEFORE the game started, probably with time/score/formation contingencies

And because he did it BEFORE the game, he does it from a strictly analytic and team-strength perspective ... emotion was not involved.

Compare that to the KC game when he’s actively involved and has the ability to change things ... emotion IS involved and you can kinda get away from what’s the smartest approach.

Not sure this makes sense, but I’ve been there as a coach

I didn't notice anything wrong with the play calls against KC.

The problem was with execution. Too many drops in the first half, and that one holding call was a drive killer.

People get way too worked up about playcalling. Any play can look great when you execute.

We had what...an 18 play drive in the 2nd half? That was amazing!

I can only imagine how bad everyone would be on Stefanski if he ran our half a billion $ QB (with a bad foot) on a QB sweep and he got a concussion! They would want him fired!

This.

Where Stefanski failed yesterday was lack of urgency on the final offensive drive. You speed up the tempo until a score is imminent, then you can slow it down. They played as if they had a lead while on their own side of the field. Then you have a couple of mistakes and it snowballed away from you. Even if we had stopped the Chiefs, you were going to have to go about about 90 yards with 1:10 and no timeouts. He picked the most important game to have his worst moment.

I thought once we knew Mahomes was out it should have been hurry up the rest of the way .. maximize possessions and the clock, at least until/if we had a lead.

I dunno. I was all in on a long methodical drive. I see reason to speed up however.... we were down 5 with 4 minutes to go. I know it was 4th and what, 8? I probably would go for it.

Allowing them a FG doesn't necessarily kill you. But 4th and 8, down 5, 4 minutes to go with only able to stop the clock twice? I think I gotta go for it. That's probably a spot where mahomes being out affected our decision. Mahomes in and you have to go for it. Punting probably the right call but damn, you got the ball to go ahead in a playoff game...

Bottom line we could have won but we weren't the best team on the field that day.

it was 4th and 9 - and we had one time out left because we used a timeout in that last series of downs before the 4th down.

I'm less worried about the 4th down punt - I think it's 50-50. We did enough to get the ball back with 1:40 ish left - assuming we don't let Henne scramble for 14 yards. But knowing the D has been so bad all year is why the 4th and 9 is something you seriously consider.

My issue with Stefanski's play calling - Hunt no touches in the first half I believe. Chubb 6 runs. I think we were unbalanced and *seemed* to always be out smarted or out guessed by the KC defense. Maybe Wills being out had a bigger impact that we realized, maybe it was just execution (a couple of completed passes to Chubb and maybe it's a 100% different outcome?). But then you have the no red flag on the dropped catch - burning a T.O by throwing a flag on the catch that never hit the ground. We also seemed to go back to getting the play call in very late - Baker was finally telling receivers where to line up with 6-7-8 seconds left on the clock instead of 20.

Anyway - it is what it is. KS called really good games for most of the year. He seems likely to learn a ton from this game. My comments about the game and play calling were more out of frustration at losing a winnable game than wanting wholesale change. Even with the D and Joe Woods where I have been frustrated at a lack of aggression - I know that we've had a porous below average D all year ... it's touch to judge a coach when he's given 3/4 of a full deck to play with.

Onwards and upwards. The future should be very bright. Browns and Ravens will be the favorites to win the AFC North next season. We should see minimal front office changes. We have our QB and our starting OL. We have quality depth along the OL. We have 90% of our skill positions sorted - an elite burner at WR would be nice. So an off-season to improve the D - plus getting Delphit and Greedy back should help enormously.

I don't know how obvious it is given that we have 17 games of Stefanski calling plays and 1 of AVP. And in that one we started with a defensive score and then had multiple turnovers resulting in short fields and quick scores.

I mean the Kevin Stefanski play calling that scored 17 points against the Chiefs is the same one that blasted the Titans.

So I think it's worth considering but nothing is obvious.. that maybe there is a way to get AVP more involved. I'm sure he is involved in the game planning..

888, we had one timeout + the two minute warning, so two stoppages. I think “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” describes playcalling for some folks. No matter what sequence of plays or ratio of run/pass or whatbalance between our running backs coach used, some on here would be critical. I guess it goes with the territory.

But when I listen to these critics facts keep getting in the way. Coach stefanski play called us to 11-5 and the playoffs. If you roll all these critics together, the ones who know so much more about play calling than the coach, their cumulative record as an nfl play caller is roughly, somewhere in the neighborhood of.... 0-0. I think I will dance with the coach that brung us.

One other thought that someone else mentioned. Many confuse good play calling with a successful outcome. And the same play in the same situation is a brilliant play or a moronic play based on how it turns out. Early in the season late in a close game we ran an end around with Odell. He almost got pulled down for a 10 yd loss. If he had our board critics would have told us coach was a terrible playcaller. But he got loose and went for a big gain. Great play call, right.

Later in the season it was 3rd and 9. Passing down for sure but we ran nick or Kareem off tackle for 11-12 yards. Same point , if it had not worked it would have terrible playcalling but it worked so it was great.
It is all about execution and as we continue to execute better and better our playcaller will just get smarter and smarter.

I agree with both you guys here. One thing I think Van Pelt showed in the game against the Steelers is that he didn't outsmart himself.

He reaized that they were on their 3rd string OLB and he was like, "yeah, we're going to pull Teller over to pancake him on running plays and we're going to do it often." And it worked.

Obviously we wanted to attack them to the outside of their defense .. numerous pitches and screens to that direction. Sadly, none of them were executed. Chiefs had our number on a lot of things.

The Chiefs had our # because they're well coached. They are Super Bowl champs for a reason.