DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Defense...Where do we go from here?

That's good, and I doubt we're going to lose anyone to coaching searches this year.

Not a lot on the "fire him now" bandwagon.. most seem to be on the give him more talent and another year or two, if we don't improve.. well then we need to consider it.

You can't properly gauge and defense that has Sendejo and Free Safety and Tavierre/MJ Stewart in the slot for large chunks of the year.

Agreed. I think most want to give the guy time to work with better personnel. Plus, with the season the Browns had, it is more than appropriate to have a holistic approach to continuity across all coaching.

I think fans were a little more upset with Woods at the beginning of the season, but after many realized the holes that existed on the defensive side of the ball, many came to the conclusion that it wasn't all on him.

Exactly. Woods did fine in San Francisco with his D. We didn't have the best talent plus we had guys in and out of the lineup with Covid and injuries. Let's give him some better players and stability and see what happens.

I agree...for me it's another of the "In Ski We Trust" type things. Ski knows Woods well...if he thinks Woods should get another shot - and with better players - then I can get on board with that.

It's only a small thing - but think Woods was the CB or Secondary coach in SF not the D coordinator who was Saleh.

Where do we go? Find speed at the LB position. Another quality pass rusher. Speed at the corner position. I guess I should just say, we need speed at all the back end positions. I would go into the offseason as if Greedy and Delpit don't exist. Not that I don't think they will return, or be good, but sign guys with speed to cover fast WRs. Upgrade at corner and safety. If they both come back strong, then good depth will be built.

At LB, the trend is fast sideline to sideline guys who can cover. We don't have one of those now.

I think we have a sideline to sideline LB now in Phillips but he's the only one we have. I agree we need more speed at the LB and secondary positions.

Agreed. Still would like to see more of him.

I'm not sold on Berry ( fo ) as Defensive talent evaluator's yet . Offence , ok and Ski is the man .. Delpit , Elliot or Philips were not my picks by a long shot .. Philip flash's some speed .. I didn't see much from Elliot in his snaps .. I suspect all three will be on next years roster . Well maybe Delpit.

I Want to draft Physical DB's ..

That was me.. and it really hit home during the Steelers game when the announcers said that in their talk with Woods, he basically said that this game was going to be painful for him because he KNEW he had to give them everything underneath and that we would give up a lot of yards...

I think the dude wants to be a lot more aggressive but realizes he didn't have the players to do it this year.

But still, IMO he needed to rush more than 4 against a 35 year old backup QB on 3rd & 14.

WE NEED LINEBACKERS AND THEN MORE LINEBACKERS~!

LBer?

We need like 6 guys

DE: yep
DT: yep
LB: yep
Slot corner: yeppers
Outside Corner: yep
Free Safety: you betcha.

As far as I'm concerned we have to find 2 starters in Free Agency. 2 or 3other short term stop gaps and hope we can fill the other 2 in the draft to start from day one.

Why not just say the whole defense lil fella?

Adding a difference maker at every level of the defense is imperative

I suppose it could be said we already have difference makers, maybe just not the difference for which we hope.

That said, I don't think many would disagree. I think LB might be the one position where we don't need to do a whole lot. I say that based on comments made by Woods that he would prefer a D that only employs 2 backers.

The general feeling is we need another edge to apply pressure. I am not going to say we don't, but for me, I would rather have a tackle that can apply pressure up the middle. That really disrupts a QB.

No doubt we have to get better on the back end if Woods is ever going to be able to run the D he wants. The guys we currently have either aren't all that good, and the ones that are always seem to be hurt, so we need to have numbers back there.

I think it's more of a case where a couple hits on new guys can push others down the roster where they belong.

-CBs that are supposed to be depth are no longer starting each Sunday.
-Rotational/depth LBs aren't playing every down

etc.

I agree. At least with-in reason, size isn't all that important.

Getting to the ball carrier and sticking with receivers is the key component for a defensive unit.

I have always felt that speed is a key component on D. Reacting is what defenders do, and when you are reacting, you are already a step behind.

If you aren't, you are guessing, and that's not a good defensive strategy.

I am not forgetting those guys. When I say speed, to me it is functional speed. Simply being fast isn't worth a darn if they suck at other things.

This is why I never put a lot of faith in 40 times. Unless someone is running straight down the field, your ability to run in a straight line is overrated.

Reaction time or what some call a quick twitch, the ability to read and diagnose what is and will happen next, the ability to play sideline to sideline and shift quickly on your feet have more to do with your game speed than how fast you can run in a straight line.

I guess our Line backers are Slow Twitcher's

or non-twitchers

Seeing Goodson trying to cover receivers or backs is hard to watch

Of course. Straight line speed in shorts is one thing but has to be compared to watching game film and gaging game speed.. they are related but not the same thing.

Instincts plays a big part in "game speed" as well. If you diagnose faster and get a 2 step head start on others, you sure do appear to be a lot faster.

I agree.

Make no mistake, a 40 time does have value and does provide a baseline on a players speed. Many times this speed also translates over to functional speed.

That is where tape factors in to the mix.

No doubt a gross gap in speed is going to show. A players who runs a 4.1 is almost always going to have more functional speed. When comparing players, one who runs a 4.5 and the one who runs a 4.65, maybe not so much.

Pretty much.

Heck the fastest clocked on field times go to running backs almost every year (admittedly, it's when they break through to nothing but green grass and actually get to run in a straight line without looking back for at least 35-40 yards, but still...)

I do enjoy when those tiny, speedy guys lose speed and balance as soon as they are carrying the weight of a uniform and in cleats, though. Or the WR's who slow way the F down as soon as their heads are turned back looking for the ball and they can't maintain their hips. Good times.

There is definitely talent on this team. However, the problem is not necessarily with the players. Woods sucks! His scheme sucks, and he knows NOT how to scheme to his players strengths. This defense was constantly in prevent. No creativity whatsoever. And opposing teams know this. I’m not sure what the answer is short of firing him. Which many don’t want to do in the name of continuity. Remember Hue Jackson in the name of continuity.....

He never had his starting back end. Every week it was different. I'll give him another year.

How many other teams would Sandejo start for? Wilson? Smith and Goodson were a pleasant surprise but still pretty average.

What about the CB's we signed off the street to start? The one that had never played in an NFL game before? Not sure I would say that was "talent".

If there is such a thing anymore, we need a three-down linebacker that is good enough to never come off the field.

We need TWO DE's that scare other teams. Vernon is gone, and when Myles rotates out, we need someone in there that can still create havoc for the other team.

We need TWO DT's because Ogunjobi is likely gone. If we can keep Ogun, then we just need one that is a monster in both Run game and pass rush.

We need help at CB and Safety... call it depth, or make them starters, whichever. Whatever. Delpit is unknown, at best. Greedy is unknown right now. If this season has taught us anything, this defense NEEDS plenty of quality depth in the secondary.

So if I read you correctly, we need a lot of help on D.

The off-ball linebacker market is less than ideal at least and we still don't know who's going to re-sign with their current teams.

David is a beast but he's what, 31-ish?
Matt Milano and Jayon Brown can cover well enough but they will likely be looking for Joe Schobert money.

We would either have to run it back with limited vets and look to the draft or explore a trade for a cash strapped team. It's possible we could kick the tires on Avery Williamson, Kwon Alexander or some other guy who was less-than-ideal the past couple seasons (heck maybe even swing for the fences and give Reuben Foster about 925k and yet another chance to resurrect his career :p), but I'm still hoping for a trade option.

Then again, The Jags have no cap reasons to trade Myles Jack, so I guess we continue to try to find the future in the draft.

Ugh...I hate the LBer position.

New plan, build the front 4 and the secondary and let a couple LBers run around in between. There really is a ridiculously limited number of versatile LBers in this league unless you run a 3-4 defense.