DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Biden Does Away With Keystone Pipeline Jobs

It’s only “too little too late” to those who give up.

Thanks for the spelling correct. I get confused on that one sometimes.

I have already said I am for green. Maybe not to the scope or urgency advocated by some, but developing a battery that can power a passenge car that doesn't look like a toy isn't beyond our grasp.

I think Quantum Glass is the answer. Go all in there.

We need the ability to go 500 miles on a full charge, and need to be able to fully charge in about the same amount of time it takes to fill up a car with gasoline.

I understand it may have to come in steps but we can get there.

The big one for now is charge time. Most people can live with a 250 mile range as long as they aren't bogged down by a 5 hour charge time. Get that down to 2-3 minutes and we will have a good stating point.

Oh...price point at the charging stations has to be level to what it costs to fill up now.

Maybe you know...I see EV charging stations at various places. What does it cost to hook up?

Agree with nearly all the post ... but regards the time factor and the convenience factor? I think there are generations coming thru - and will continue to come thru - who are willing to accept a little extra cost and a little inconvenience for the sake of using EVs. But yes, one decade it'll get there.

Right now the cost of vehicular charging is roughly $5.00 per 100 miles.

Great, so I'll be 16 again and won't be able to drink. This sucks.

Not necessarily arguing, but I thought that the overall cost comparison wasn't so simple. You do end up saving money, but the savings become really dramatic as your monthly mileage goes up.

The first time I have the opportunity to I will.

According to you, where you've been wrong in this debate over and over again, is to point the finger in the other direction.

You claimed that EV's got 200 miles to a charge. WRONG!

They now make batteries that get over 300 miles per charge and they're starting to develop some that get close to 400 miles per charge.

You claimed the charging time was 6-8 hours...............

Groundbreaking battery to cut electric car charging times from 75 minutes to just 10 minutes

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style...e-a9177781.html

Failing to keep up with advances in EV and battery development leave you posting things that are long outdated and in no way represent the reality of what is actually going on today.

This is WHY auto makers are turning to producing EV's more and more. They keep up with the technology while you are living in the past and call them stupid because you have no idea of what's actually going on.

Thoughts from someone who works in auto manufacturing:

EVs are the future. The next 10 years are going to be crazy in the automobile industry.

Just some things to think about though...most people don't realize the investment it takes to switch from making ICE and hybrid vehicles to full EV vehicles. Not just new lines to sub-assemble and install the batteries, but the construction of the car frame, and the floor specifically, is dramatically different. This takes huge investments from auto manufacturers.

Why are manufacturers OK taking on this cost? They know you'll pay for it. The profit margins are going to be huge, just like it is on SUVs and trucks. Why make regular cars where the profit margin is so low? The cost of new cars is going to skyrocket to cover these investment costs.

Also involved with this is advanced technologies related to automated driving. The cost to develop these technologies is immense. But they are coming soon as well.

So, you have all these costs and investments related to all this new technology on top of a weak car market due to the pandemic. Some car companies aren't going to make it through the next 10 years - I see a lot of consolidation coming. You already see it with a lot of auto companies teaming up to share costs for EV development.

But, for better or worse, it is coming.

Things I think about though - I don't think our current electric grid can handle the coming influx of EVs. Major investments will need to be made. We already see the rolling blackouts out West.

Also our grid is extremely vulnerable. There is no doubt in my mind that China could shut us down right now if they wanted to; only thing stopping them is that we could probably do the same or worse to them. Not sure how to fix this.

Along with this, China produces the main bulk of the rare-earth metals that are used in a lot of our advanced electronics.

Really, all this renewable energy is pointless. What we need is a Manhattan Project-type investment in nuclear fusion technology. Put the United States out in the lead for the power technology that shows the most promise for the next 100 years, not just the next 20.

But too many of our politicians have too much money invested in fossil fuels and "green" energy.

An entire post full of theories and suppositions only to arrive at a typical conclusion for those who try and find excuses not to make progress.

No evidence. The only actual evidence we do have is that EV's are already being made and nothing he states seems to be an issue.

I was answering peens question on what the current charging costs are. Charging station charges on average of around $5.00 per 100 miles. Currently, no pun intended, it takes roughly 20-45 min for a 300 mile charge, and faster charging stations are coming online all the time.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with since I am basically agreeing with you that EVs are the future? Maybe you just like to argue?

I'm just saying there are going to be growing pains, not just for automobile manufacturers, but also for utility companies to get there. I live this every day in my job. There are no theories. Reason you aren't seeing it is because the scale of EV production and use is not anywhere close to what it will be in 10 years.

And what I say about green energy is true: In 50 years, we will be getting most of our energy from nuclear fusion; not windmills and solar panels. We, as a country, should be investing way more into this technology than we currently are; it is the future, not windmills and solar panels.

EVs play right into this because they will be getting all their energy from the grid that is powered by fusion reactors.

Research economies of scale...we aren't close to being there for EVs yet.

First off this will be a gradual process. It isn't going to hit our infrastructure in one swift blow.

Secondly, to arrive at your conclusion you will fist have to figure out how you're going to arrive at some sudden turnaround in permits for nuclear power plants. As of now that's virtually non existent. I'm not trying to say that your idea isn't sound in theory.

I do however wonder how you arrive at the conclusion we will be majorly dependent on an energy source that almost no permits are even being given with which to expand that source?

Not to keep asking questions. Is that based on charging at home or at some charging station, or some combination of the two?

Don't bother looking it up. If it was important enough, I would look it up myself.

There has to be some cost difference between plugging in at home v at some charging station.

I would assume there is, at home, once you have paid for the electrical equipment required, all you are paying for is electricity. Plugging in at a remote charging station you are paying for the electricity, maintenance on the equipment, convenience, etc. I would assume it's no different than cooking at home vs eating out.. the same food is more expensive when you are paying somebody else to provide it.

Ah, I understand now...you are confusing nuclear fission with nuclear fusion. Do some research on the SPARC reactor and come back to me.

SPARC is the type of technology we should be investing in, not solar and wind.

I'll do that.

The efficiency of an auto engine, fuel to energy, is around 18 percent.

The efficiency of a fossil fuel power plant is 35-39 percent, fuel to energy.

Electricity is a better power source, and the above does not consider renewable sources such as solar, hydro or wind.

Nuclear too, but there are obvious issues.

Can you use capitalism, and the free market, to get there or do you admit they'll demand all top down control of peoples decisions just like communist Russia.

I am not a communist.

Good it's been to long since I have seen you bro



Oh really??? Here is a list of the top 11 electric vehicles for 2021 as far as mileage range. 8 of the TOP 11 have real world mileage ranges with miles in the 200's

https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/energywise/electric-cars-longest-range

As for charging times..... I was wrong but look at the article I linked to. Charging times at home range from 10 1/2 hours to 32 hours and rapid charges 22 to 44 minutes.

As far as the article you posted claiming a 10 minute, that article is 16 months old and the ten minute charge has not been achieved yet as shown by the 2021 models being produced now. Your article also clearly states "Breakthrough with electric car batteries could reduce charging time to 10 minutes" COULD not does or will.



Oh really lol 8 of the top 11 mileage ranges this year fall in the 200 mile range (from 225 to 295 miles)



GM has stop producing most cars for the model years 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024. Which is stupid. It will cost them market share as those who want cars will buy them from another manufacturer. You see I am not living in the past, I am against forcing things down the people's throats instead of letting the market take it's natural course and change over time as it becomes more cost effective and convenient. Everybody knows electric vehicles are the future, we just disagree on the timeline to switch over to them.

You're not actually disagreeing with me. You're actually disagreeing with the auto makers. All of which will have multiple new EV models out by 2025.

You are disagreeing with not only American auto manufacturers but those across the globe. Somehow you feel that you know more about the proper timeline for this than they do. That all of their market researchers have it wrong and you have it right.

You see, they aren't looking at what is in the 2021 models. They're looking at the advances currently being made in charging times and miles per charge. That's exactly why they're going to be releasing all these new models in 2025.

These huge multi billion dollar corporations didn't get to where they are today because people like us know more than they do about the products they themselves manufacture and sell. A production line has to sell enough product to remain viable. That's why GM stopped making so many cars. You can't keep making vehicles you're losing money on.

If you ever have a question, read Pitdawg's post above this, evidently his perspective is

Big corporations know best, and people don't. So if there is ever a conflict, the big corporation is right. ...

and I am not a communist. (Might makes right! right?)

They do know best about their products, what will sell and how to market them. Learn to read.

I read that SUVs Vans and Pickups make up like 70% of all vehicle sales.
So it only makes sense to me that auto makers will begin making fewer sedans as the market dictates a waning interesting the latter.

I see more crossovers filling that void where people want more than a sedan but less than an SUV.

Then there’s me. I drive a 5 speed manual transmission compact. EVs are cool but I’ll miss shifting. I do have a 4x4 compact truck for hauling and such. I only put maybe 500 miles on it a year anymore... except the years I attend Burning Man.
If or when I could ever justify a ‘vanity’ car purchase this is what I’d be after. Anyone want to hand me $20,000-$30,000 out of the kindness of your heart?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1977-datsun-280z-39/

Then once most vehicles driving jobs are obsolete, they'll blame illegals for it.

more interestingly, will be how the politicians find a way to tax us when there is no gas tax, license taxes, etc etc

One thing we can all have confidence in is that they'll find a way.

And that it will be 2x as much as the current system.

Electricity usage tax?

Carbon dioxide emission tax, based upon the amount of air you breathe out?

That last one was a joke, FYI.

And they will continue to spent with 50% efficiency.

Methane emission tax, based upon the amount of broccoli, cauliflower and Brussels sprouts you eat?

*Hands Pit a q-tip* Clean out your ears. I called General Motors stupid, not every auto manufacturer. SMH



Your right I do think I know more than the big shots who are out of touch with people. You see I sent most of my 32 years in the Car business working for GM. I not only dealt with people 6 days a week for all those years I also dealt with GM execs in both sales and service. I dealt with execs from Chevy, Buick, GMC, and even Cadillac. You may know a lot more than me on a lot of subjects but this sure as hell isn't one of them my friend.



You mean those same market researchers that thought GM could get away with the "Delamination" see horrible paint problems GM vehicles 1980 through 1997. Which caused them to lose a lot of customers who never returned.

Maybe you mean the market researchers who thought these vehicles were a good idea
Cadillac Escalade EXT
Cadillac Cimarron
Chevrolet Chevette
Chevrolet Citation
Pontiac Aztek
Pontiac Fiero
Cadillac Catera
Chevrolet Vega
Geo Storm
How about the Lotus Elan? Yes GM bought Lotus and produced this plastic body monstrosity.
THe 2000 to 2005 Monte Carlo
Oldsmobile Cutlass Diesel and other Diesel cars from the late 70,s and early 80's
Chevrolet Corvair One of the dangerous cars ever sold.
Cadillac ELR LMFAO the only sold 105 of these electric suckers in one who year and could not give the damn things away.
Geo Metro Convertible
Cadillac V8-6-4 Yep those market researchers loved that engine


So yes I think I know more than the market researchers, and many of the execs. Not because I am smarter but because I dealt with the public all those years. I talked to them, I listened to them, and I understood them. I also cared about them. Something GM and their big wigs didn't and still don't do. I could be rich if I got 10 cents for every time I heard a GM exec tell me the people were going to do what GM wanted them to do. They think and have thought that they could convince people to buy what GM wanted them to buy. They have not spent as much time worrying about building what people want to buy.



That huge multi billion dollar corporation that had to be bailed out by us tax payers to the tune of
11.2 BILLION dollars. That's right 11.2 BILLION that's the company that you want to stand behind and tell me that they are smart.


The government has never had to bail me out with 11.2 Billion so I stand by my statements of knowing more than GM's market researchers and big wigs.

Maybe to you, but you just gave them an idea

Ha, me and my big mouth.

Who’s them? And if you’re so smart and know so much about how a bad managed company General Motors is and hate their products. Why did you work for them so long.and use their handle here? You could have easily went elsewhere. Mmmm? Doesn’t make sense to me. Disgruntled employee maybe? Yeah that must be it.

I read it as The Government.