DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Stock Market Discussion

I was just thinking...this truly has become a time of hypocrisy at its worst.

We should hold free and fair elections...unless our side doesn't win.

We should have an open market, unregulated, capitalist economy...but not if we lose money.

We need to get rid of cancel culture...unless you say something that offends me.

And so on...

This aged well.

So I don't want to get into a big Covid debate since it is off topic, but I did want to update you on that article you posted, and I am certainly not disagreeing with your friend.

The pangolin paper by Andersen is now considered to be deeply flawed. Even the authors have acknowledged this (though mainstream news keeps republishing the story). The problem is that these type of analysis rely on comparing letters (nucleotides) in data files from one species to another. And they use that to try to guess the origin. All they ever had to compare were letters in text files supplied to them by the Chinese. Anybody can create or change these data files with a text editor. Nobody outside of China has ever handled any physical evidence. What they have determined is that all of the pangolin data had to have come from a single pangolin and the Chinese had started with a story about 28 dead pangolins, additionally they are claiming that they lost or disposed of important samples, and for a number of other reasons, the pedigree of the data is highly suspect. Additionally, a WHO investigation was recently undertaken in which the investigators were blocked from going to locations such as the mines where they say the original most similar samples were obtained from. They obviously need to go there if they are going to find evidence of natural origin.

There is a 9 month back and forth on Twitter between Andersen and many other scientists on the whole debate. I doubt that they will ever really know the origin because this type of analysis is really not capable of telling you how a mutation came to be (manipulation vs nature) only that it happened.

What is happening today is so incredibly wrong that people should be thrown in jail for it. The brokerage companies (that are required by law to represent their customers) are blocking the buying of Gamestop and the other short squeeze stocks and they are clearly doing it to protect dumb hedge fund managers and institutions that got caught taking giant stupid bets. They are literally stealing Billions from their clients today in order to protect these hedge funds. It's not just Robinhood either. The list of companies seems to include E-Trade, Ameritrade, Fidelity, Merrill, Schwab, thinkorswim and Vanguard. Might be a good time to consider which companies you save your retirement with.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/...-it/ar-BB1dbjS8

You nailed it.

Add Firstrade to that list. I wasn't allowed to trade any of those stocks today. One in particular, that was nosediving, I was not allowed to short, even though my position would have been under 10% of my CASH liquidity... Hard to use the excuse of prohibiting margin trading and "protecting investors". I'm a big boy - it's my money. Strangely enough, it permitted me to buy a share and lose money lol.

A full investigation is in order.

j/c...

I have several friends that followed this when it was starting on Reddit and got in on $AMC and $GME. Absolutely criminal that this morning accounts were frozen that people could no longer buy. This has been amazing to watch in real time. There are also millionaires on reddit that helped buy up large quantities as well.

And now, A LOT of these rumors going around...

So, I just opened a low limit order to buy on Fidelity and it was accepted (can't say if it would have executed at a higher price), so maybe some of them were just have outages earlier and don't deserve to be thrown under the bus.

AOC and Ted Cruz agree for the first and possibly only time...

At least twice today I've seen both NOK and AMC spike rapidly only to be frozen for 5-7 minutes without any activity. Both times, it's been around the same stock price, respectively. Insane.

And right when they're unfrozen, the stock price plummets.

The irony of "Robinhood" is almost too much..

How long was Martha Stewart in prison?

More like Sherriff of Nottingham as it is being called on the Twitter.

Hell hath frozen over.

You nailed it.

Funny how there's a fiduciary duty...until they don't want one.

I'm sure this will all end up with all their executives appearing before Congress with a finger-wagging and strong words with no real outcome.

Since Ted replied AOC sent a scathing reply balance is restored.

I saw that, it was a doozy. Although I thought it was a little misplaced. There's no way Ted Cruz has the balls to do anything like she's insinuating.

Not sure it's true but saw the reddit group is already filing a class action lawsuit against the Robinhood App.

This has been fun to follow.

I hope they keep looking for stocks that can get hedge funds bankrupt.

Me too. But, you're probably invested in those hedge funds in your school retirement funds, whether you know it or not.

Nah. Alaska’s system is nowhere near like STRS in Ohio. I don’t even get a pension. I’d do much better financially, along with retirement, if I worked in Ohio.

And even if I was, I don’t mind at all. I’d hate for my retirement to be built on predatory scumbags that wish to bankrupt companies to flip a profit.

So, in Alaska, (aside from the money you get for being a citizen), you get NO money for retirement? None? No pension, no nothing? Your years of teaching don't even transfer to other states, if you move, like you said you would?


If so, wow.

I know my cousins years of teaching in N.C. transferred to Ohio, where they now work.

Oh, one other thing. I'd hate for your retirement to be built on my taxes. And please, don't anyone tell me "it's self funded". Bull.

Here’s an L. Go ahead and take it.

An "l" for the citizens of Alaska, of course.

Ahhh, the free market, such a fake reality.

You know it’s bad when the far right, middle, and far left are out here wrecking the hedge fund managers and robinhood in unison. Wall Street really played themselves.

There is no such thing as a free market. That should’ve been made very clear the last few days to every American. If the wealthy have their agendas threatened, this happens.

JMO, but if the goal was to wreck people, it should have been stopped.

It financially helped a lot of little guys while wrecking a billionaire stock market gambler. I can live with that.

Agree, but wrecking something is literally the point of hedge funds, which have now been operating for decades freely.

The point of the most recent movement was to "wreck the wreckers."

Is it right? No. It's a modern-day Robinhood scenario, which is very ironic considering the actions of Robinhood Investments.

I thought Robin Hood generally stole from the Kings people and was essentially stealing people's tax money and giving it back to them...

Ironically, yesterday, Robin Hood became Sheriff of Nottingham.

As to Peen's comment... It's exactly as dawglover stated. The masses set out to wreck the wreckers - the finacially elite that do something (that should be illegal) to destroy businesses and reap the rewards.

Shorting stocks allows people to manipulate stocks that they don't even own. These hedge fund's short positions in Gamestop amounted to 140% of total stocks. How does that make any sense?? Nothing good can come from that. Yet when the tables were turned, they cry foul, make phone calls, and change the game in the middle of it. The tables were turned because these funds are arrogant enough to rub our noses in it... Just as they did when they set the world economy on fire, painted on a smug grin, and paid themselves bonuses. This time the little guy said "no more". The little guy needs to keep standing up and saying "no more", or nothing ever changes.

I am not sticking up for hedge funds, but if they get hurt little guys do get hurt.

Large mutual funds have all sorts in investments.

Haha, I didn't mean to make this about Robin Hood itself, but the whole premise was to rob from the rich and corrupt and give to the poor.

In the current situation, it's retail investors of less affluent backgrounds screwing over billionaire institutional hedge funds.

I see what you're saying, and nobody wants to see the little guy get hurt. Hell, I actually think what Reddit is doing will ultimately get the little guy hurt because I just don't think it's sustainable.

But the ends don't justify the means, as you imply. Maintaining wealth of mutual fund holders that are bolstered by whatever these hedge funds are doing does not excuse what the hedge funds are actually doing.

This is a DRASTIC comparison, but if I create a fund that is heavily invested in clubbed baby seal pelt futures that is lucrative for investors, at the end of the day, I'm still investing in clubbing baby seals, and I am a much bigger benefactor of it proportionally than those who are fund-holders.

There are no guarantees in a casino. The uber rich shorters got a little too comfortable and are taking a bath... boo hoo. The redditors all know they can lose their butts if not careful, both sides know there is risk involved, but only the rich side is crying foul.

Same goal as hedge funds.

$DOGE

Reddit and Robinhood gamified the stock market, and it’s going to end badly

The stock market turned into a spectacle to rival Super Bowl LV this week, as retail investors and hedge funds faced off over GameStop stock. Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes will have a hard time providing as much entertainment to viewers around the world as this latest step in the gamification of financial markets.

Punting on stocks has always had a sporting element: the thrill of placing a bet and watching the game play out. But financial markets now offer a chance for combat as well as entertainment. The element of combat was introduced with the proliferation of hedge funds that actively short stocks to hedge their positions. Widespread shorting—when you borrow a share, sell it, and hope to buy it back at a lower price—ensures that longs (owners of the stock) are set against shorts in a zero-sum game. With the morality tale of good individual investors on Reddit battling the evil hedge funds shorting stocks, the game was complete. In a populist moment, what could be more fun than seeing lethal combat between individuals and institutions, outsiders and insiders?


How did the gamification of financial markets happen? There are many culprits, including a bored and socially distanced workforce staring at screens during a pandemic, and low interest rates that make traditional saving silly and borrowing to buy stocks cheap, but the most important is the resurgence of the retail investor. You can’t fully gamify an industry without finding a technology to allow many new players.

In the last five decades, institutional investors became the dominant force in financial markets. The rise of defined benefit plans and then the switch to defined contribution plans consolidated market power among the mutual funds where workers invest retirement assets and the hedge funds that promise pension plans and endowment managers exorbitant returns. But that changed two years ago.

A fundamental change in the business model of financial brokerages brought the retail investor back: the rise of zero-commission trading. Commissions were already under pressure as new entrants—notably Robinhood—were funded by venture capitalists eager to find another industry to disrupt with bountiful capital. Brokerages realized that their business model was upside down. They didn’t need to charge their customers commissions to make money; there was much more money to be made by not charging their customers. The allure of “free”—demonstrated by Facebook and Google—was far greater than conventional business models.

As we’ve learned from the internet, what appears to be free is far from it. Just as Facebook and Google monetize user information by selling advertising, Robinhood and all the brokerages that have migrated to zero-cost commission capitalize on information. But there’s a twist. The brokerages don’t sell their users’ information; they sell their lack of it. The fundamental problem for market makers in financial markets is the danger of transacting with people with information—no one wants to trade with someone with more information because they know they’ll lose. That problem is what gives rise to so-called bid-ask spreads (the difference between the price at which you can buy and sell an asset) as these spreads reward market-makers for the risk of transacting with informed traders.

Robinhood and other zero-cost brokerages monetize their hold on active traders who are decidedly uninformed. They sell these trades to a new generation of market makers, like Citadel Securities, who pay for the ability to realize a bid-ask spread without taking the risk of trading with informed traders. Retail investors get to trade for free, the new generation of Wall Street behemoths like Citadel monetize their ignorance, and the old-line investment banks that used to pocket that bid-ask spread have moved on to becoming, like Goldman Sachs, some combination of a commercial bank and a hedge fund. Fun is had by all.

The gamification of financial markets comes with many costs. This will end badly for the retail investors, though it is not clear exactly when and how, and some will make money along the way. In the process, financial markets will do what they have done for centuries, though it is little acknowledged: reallocate wealth from the uninformed to the informed. Every bubble is associated with redistribution, and much of the alpha that professional investors boast about is nothing more than timing gains that are redistributions from other parties. The current populist moment in financial markets, like many other populist moments, will only serve to amplify that redistribution toward the rich and informed, all the while suggesting that it is doing the opposite.


Even more is at stake for the real economy. Financial markets are meant to provide price signals that help allocate resources and to provide mechanisms for funneling capital from savers to firms that need that capital. Gamification reduces those important functions to a sideshow. As retail investors reckon with their losses, they will lose faith in the valuable functions financial markets provide.

As with Facebook, or any seemingly “free” market, putting the genie back in the bottle will not be straightforward. It isn’t obvious how to regulate a market where participants are willingly trading their attention. Individuals are not being charged anything, and there is no obvious informational edge that is being capitalized on unfairly. Yet losses will arise over time and financial markets will suffer a further loss in credibility. Until that reckoning, your long-run health will be best served by being a fan and not a player—if you can stomach what the game is doing to the players, that is.

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1744383/28/stock-market-discussion