DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Our future?

You are really clueless. Charger has posted on here for years and has always been a left of center guy. You just can't handle someone who is honest.

Oober pointed it out ... and it's an important differentiation ... Where they have MSNBC TV is definitely correct.

P-dawg ... do you want to also call out Fish and insult him for not appearing to acknowledge that Brietbart and American Thinker are essentially equally and opposite to MSNBC?

MSNBC is very left for 90% of their shows
Fox is the right's version of MSNBC

Breitbart and Newsmax are way right of Fox

Fish to my knowledge doesn't repeatedly call out anyone who disagrees with him a Trump supporter or in this case calling out Charger, who is a standup guy, as someone who loves Fox News implying he is someone who is clueless.

I haven't commented on anyone's preferences for their media, Perfect included.

I will say I am personally very skeptical of what I read or see by many of the news sources that are being talked about.

I agree Charger is a stand up guy.

It appeared from your previous post you are calling Perfect "clueless" for suggesting MSNBC is not hard left. The reference to Fish is because he is trying to suggest/insinuate that Breitbart and American Thinker are not Hard Right. It seemed you wanted to address one stance without acknowledging the other. . . . But after your last post it seems your comment was more a general statement, idk.

I also agree that Charger is a stand-up guy, he's always treated me fair.

The statement of me trying to suggest/insinuate that Breitbart and American Thinker are not "Hard Right" is simply not true. This whole argument started from this quote:



I only post articles printed on Breitbart, PJ Media, and American Thinker...hardly from your boogeyman Qanon, whoever/whatever they are!

I didn't attempt to rate the websites.

I said he was clueless because of his comments about Charger. Like I said he has a history of calling out people because they disagree. I Just was pointing out that Charger isn't a right wing guy

I guess shame on me for not asking a direct question ... i thought it was implied several times and ignored when I talked about your sources being the equal opposite of MSNBC etc and it appeared as if you would not accept that as being true.

Is this what is meant by "projecting"? I really never understood what "projecting" is, but assigning beliefs to another seems similar to putting words in someone elses mouth, and that is to assume one knows what someone else believes, thinks, feels, or does, and I think it's not right to label others with an assumption,

(aww whom I kiddin, unless they're a democrat politician, democrats' have shown their true colors for years and I rail against them on a regular basis because I feel they are so dangerous, to safety, if they aren't stopped, but that's not individual members of this board)
(I can't assume what others on here think unless they express it)

He puts words in people's mouths all the time constantly.

I will just say that I have looked and studied that media bias chart and agree with it. It does not matter if I am left or right, accuracy is the basis of my statement.

I can look at pretty much anything that is out in the media, and can assign a level of what I interpret to be opinion or bias.

When you look at the chart, you have to remember that it is just as important to look up and down as well as left or right.

The problem with the media is that opinions are being presented as facts, and that begins a downward spiral.

I used to play a mind exercise game where you argue one position for a period, and then flip it and argue the counterpoint. It is good way for you to develop an appreciation of the others viewpoint.

And I do not watch Fox News, OAN, Newmax or most of the other hyperpartisan right stuff... I can read that type of information, but it is real difficult for me to watch.

I do find MSNBC (TV) obnoxious in its partisanship. That is part of the challenge, everyone stays on their side of the fence and we lose the ability to have real dialogue.

I will 100% agree that MSNBC is left, but not far left because they draw a line at liberal and crap on progressives and everyone left of them. And they are pretty much equal to fox until you get to the evening shows. Fox's big 3 opinion shows are pure garbage with zero fact based reporting or even reality reporting. At least their MSNBC counterparts report fact based stories while adding their opinions. Having said that, I have to add that even I am sick of MSNBC and their centrist/liberal bias, but from the left.

And before somebody throws up their Russiagate coverage, you will never in a million years convince me that Trump did not collude with Putin, never. I will give the right "it might not have been as bad as I thought", but they damn sure did it and it was treasonous. All of this attempted rewriting or whitewashing of history by the right doesn't fly with me. I don't care that a corrupt GOP let Trump off the hook, he was guilty as hell on Russia and the first impeachment. He is also guilty of this inciting insurrection but GOPers are now trying to say it was a peaceful protest that got out of hand... not a riot, not an insurrection, BLM was bigger and worse... Bull Patties! The dead head GOPers that toted guns to state houses then the US Capitol and tried to intimidate then plain terrorize politicians are in no way even remotely close to the BLM protest or associated riots. Even with tons of evidence that much of the riots and violence was perpetrated by far right bad actors at those protest, they still try to make an equivalence. Then they tried to blame January 6th on ANTIFA, but weren't smart enough to realize that getting rid of trump is what ANTIFA wanted... why would they storm the capitol? PUH-lease.

Now we are going into impeachment 2.0 and the right is at it again. They get caught with their pants down and want you to believe you didn't see what you saw because that would be bad for America!... wth? Crocodile tears and cries for unity coming from the right on something we should all be disgusted united Americans after witnessing is a whole new flavor of horse hockey. They want us to overlook an attempted coup. All of their media stations have had to admit the big lie, yet they all still believe it. I don't even recognize this country anymore. Their are very few patriots left, responsible adults left, and stupid/slimy is at all time highs. All of the news stations, right and left, played a huge role in all of this. I long for the days of Walter Cronkite, at least the just the facts reporting.

I can see both sides of this with regard to MSNBC and how they present the "news" ... which stories they cover ... where they stand in the political spectrum. OCD - to your point, I don't know that it makes them centrist - they are simply an extension of the political arm of the Democrats. They will do, present and promote candidates that they believe will have the largest % of the vote.... If a candidate, no matter how worthy, is promoting agendas that are seen/believed to alienate large parts of the electorate and drive them to the GOP or make them not vote, they they are not going to promote them. Bernie fits that to a tee.

So now you're going down the rabbit hole with Throw.

Again, the relative position on the Y axis makes a difference. You can be a factual partisan.

That is why MSNBC is higher than Fox on the accuracy scale.

I'm not so much going to try and debate the accuracy of each one. I think it's far more about what they do with the part that's accurate.

Sometimes the original premise is accurate from both sources. It's when they begin to extrapolate on the accurate part where both sources go wrong. You can take an accurate point then go from that point to some pretty convoluted conclusions by twisting every assertion you make from there forward.

My wife watches MSNBC a lot. I often time have to remind her to, "listen to what they actually said rather than the conclusion they draw from it".

I think in both cases you have to really sift through what they say to find out truth from opinion. I have never actually broken it down to degrees.

The problem is that we do not have real left/right debate anymore.

Crossfire, the McLaughlin Group, Point/Counterpoint, we have lost part of our heritage...

and classic comedy.

And man the comedy was great!

But it would be hard for me to disagree with you about having healthy left/right debates anymore from media sources. And to me that's rather sad.

I'm more liberal when it comes to social issues and a little more conservative on foreign policy. Not liberal enough for progressives and anyone who doesn't walk the chalk line on the right is certainly labeled a liberal.

I think there is a middle ground that could be reached on many issues but the problem is that in our world today nobody wants a middle ground. At least for the most part. It seems to be an all or nothing game played by both sides.

I'll use education as an example. One side wants to make everything free and the other side wants to do nothing. There's a middle ground that could greatly reduce student debt without having a huge giveaway program. It's just not what seems to be a popular view by either side.

I am the poster child for education... it’s the best damn investment that this country ever made.

It is not just me, the income differential over a lifetime of work is significant. Literally the government could give the money away and it would pay for itself.... depending on the degree.

That does not say that it should be run better...

I believe in the principle that funding eligibility should be tied to income potential.

My wife, who started college at 45 came out with a degree and a lot of debt. 6.5 percent interest is overly burdensome when you have borrowed an equivalent of a Porsche or Vette. I was in the position to refinance at about half the interest.

Yikes, I know what those numbers look like, and it is a challenge.

Yeah, sadly education became an area where predatory interests moved in. I've seen loans anywhere from 6.8% to 7.5%. In my eyes, it very much closely mirrors the 2008 housing crisis. In this case, the Government handed out buckets and buckets of loans, which was also done by private institutions to follow suit. For-profit colleges were especially aggressive in getting students to take out loans in order to grab hold of the gobs of money that came out. Degrees and actual educational advantages be damned.

In many cases, loans were handed out to tons of people who had either no interest, misguided interest, or no business at all receiving a higher education. This swelled up the demand for college education and made the price skyrocket. That resulted in people like your wife and others who actually wanted and deserved that education to pay out the wazoo and come out of higher ed with exorbitant loans. The people who also had no business getting a higher education also came out with exorbitant loans, and were in no better position to pay them back, to boot.

So now, here we are. $1.3T in loan balances and rising. The boat is full of water from a huge leak. The Democrats' solution is just to dump all the water out of the boat. The Republicans' solution is to just let the boat sink. Nobody is actually trying to fix the leak, which is the insane cost of education.

I think the Government needs to significantly revamp the way it hands out loans and the amount, because it is just forming a massive debt bubble. Admittedly, I fall short on the "how to do that effectively" aspect.

Nobody in Government wants to go that route, though, because it would cause a lot of universities to collapse the same way a lot of banks did in 2008, but perhaps on a grander scale. To me, it's a solution that is painful for the short term, but far better in the long term.

Spot on.

I agree. Upper education has become a farce. Schools don't care if people flunk out. They just want the money. Both schools and lenders need to do a better job of vetting people before admission and lending the money.

Compare your undergrad work to your law work. You will see the difference right there.

People go for some undergrad degree, take a bunch of electives and courses they like the first couple of years, then flunk out and have a ton of debt on their hands.

In Law, you had to pass the LSAT. That shows your baseline is capable of the course load.

The you get hammered the first year or two. How many people did you know that flunked out in their last year of law? Probably not many. Most flunk out before or in year two.

Don't string undergrads out for 2-3 years to then watch them fail out.

You heard the saying about Law School.

Year one they scare you to death. Year two they work you to death. Year three, they bore you do death.

I think it needs to be more like that at the undergraduate level. If you are in engineering, you can only take electives for so long before you have to start a heavy load of mathematics.

Yes, I know it isn't all that simple in a course like that, but with all the crazy degrees a person can get these days, switch your major a time or two and you can have multiple good years at the frat hall.

Yeah I completely agree. There needs to be a major overhaul. As it stands right now, education is undervalued. If you had a college degree alone 30 years ago, that was considered elite. Now so many places are pumping out degrees that a Masters has become the new Bachelors.

As I've said multiple times, for the most part, higher education has become a business.

Yes, there are certain jobs where you need that degree. But colleges and universities are businesses, and if adding a degree program in, say, paleo diet brings them customers (students) they'll do it.

Says a trump supporter.