DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Biden Does Away With Keystone Pipeline Jobs

Yeah well “we the people” select the Government. At least that’s how it’s worked for over 200 years....until ....well you know.

Your still


As DL already pointed out "The government"

Now who is the hell said I hate GM's products. I have loved many of them over the years. I also didn't work for them. I worked for the Dealerships, and GM had nothing to do with the company. It was short for General Manager which was my position at the dealerships for years.




Nothing everybody else understands ever makes sense to you.



Wow you still make Bob Uecker look like a Babe Ruth with all of your swings and misses.

Here's your problem. You're pointing to how switching over to EV models is stupid. That people aren't ready for them. That when all these new models come out in 2025 you are comparing them to "200 miles to a charge" with claims that it will take "6-8 hours to charges them".

None of that is true. So while you want to isolate that to GM, it's auto makers across the board who are doing this. Most every auto maker is relying more on crossover vehicles and have done away with many of their car models because they simply weren't selling.

Every auto manufacturer misses on some of its new models and those loans have been paid back. Chrysler paid there's back too.

You've moved the goal posts from EV's won't work to GM is stupid. EV's will work and every auto manufacturer across the globe know it unless you think they're all wrong and you're right.

This whole "GM is stupid because they stopped making many cars" is s side bar argument you brought up mid stream. Focus.

Oh good lord, really? We're going down this rabbit hole on a joke?

I guess that would depend on what your definition of "fast" is. There will be many in our society, and there is now, that have limited means with which to purchase a vehicle.

I would venture to guess that the resale value of EV's will have to get to the point of being affordable to much of our society before we see wholesale changes. I do agree with you that EV's will take over the vast majority of new car sales in short order.

As with anything, when you mass produce a product the price comes down. I anticipate that the cost of EV's will be very close to the same price as gas powered vehicles over time.

It’s moving fast depending on how you look at it, and where.

Europe has been moving quickly toward EVs. Porsche, BMW, and Audi/VW have already started building new facilities to build 100% EV cars. Charging stations were already accessible, but now there’s a massive development of infrastructure for EVs.

My issue is that consumer demand hear in America is growing for that. It wasn’t that long ago that Americans claimed Tesla wasn’t gonna work.....and now look. Got a big ass plant being built in Texas of all states.

It’s not gonna be as fast here in America simply due to the size of the country. Another aspect that we have a ton of people who love to be stuck in their ways. You got the passive aggressive losers still parking their lifted trucks in charging spots just to make whatever useless point they believe in.

However, the reality is that the most common argument against EVs is the range. But the way technology has been progressing, that’s gonna be one of those arguments that don’t hold any water, but people say anyway because they don’t WANT to believe anything else. Especially because the average american’s daily commute is something that EVs won’t be a hassle anyway, but they THINK it will be.

Audi just dropped the new RS E-Tron....my god what a glorious looking ride.

And yes, as you’ve said and I’ve also said repeatedly, with more development and such, the EVs will be coming down in price, like literally everything else in life.

Two biggest complains of EVs - range and charging times - are also gonna be the two easiest things to fix.

Then the only argument anybody will have left is the emotional arguments like “well, what about the workers that make gas engine parts”

And my response will be “free market capitalism”

Here's the hilarious part about the "200 miles to a charge" part of the argument. Most average homes have two vehicles. One is mainly for local travel to and from work and errands.

The average annual mileage for a vehicle is 12,000. Even at the high end it's 15,000 miles. At 15,000 miles that's just ever so slightly over 41 miles per day. Unless someone is going on vacation or driving long distances for work, they would not be driving over 200 miles in a day. And I know that most of those who have brought this up own more than one vehicle.

And as has been pointed out to them, the average miles per charge portion of this is being extended with the new technology.

As someone who doesn't know beans about science, I'll be curious to see where it goes down way down the road in terms of increasing the charge. Increasing the storage capacity of the battery seems to be the obvious goal, but I'd be interested to see what else develops.

Incorporating a solar element to the vehicle itself as an added charging method? Cordless charging parking spaces akin to how our phones charge? I'm just spitballing, but it'll be interesting, I think.

Exactly. The vast majority of people use their cars to commute. The amount of times people go on extended road trips vs everyday commuting usage is so drastic, the argument simply falls apart when doing any sort of research.

Most people are gonna come home from work with atleast half a charge left. So the only way charging times become a problem is if....you don’t put it on the charger before you go to bed at night.

And with the cost of charging, most people will not come anywhere close to paying for electricity from charging as they would paying for fuel.

I think you agree that yes, we need a lot more infrastructure investing with regards to charging locations in public. But I’ve noticed a funny trend that the main people against EVs are also the people who live in houses....that have the best access for charging ports.

I would understand if people from the city would be against it due to lack of charging locations within the city...but it’s the people in the suburbs/rural areas doing the most whining. And that just doesn’t make any sense.

Porsche already has a version of wireless charging for cars parked in a garage. It’s a plate that’s set up and mounted on the ground. You drive the ride over it, almost like how you pull up to an oil change spot (obviously not a hole or something), and it charges the car overnight without you even having to plug it in.

It definitely takes long for a full charge so you have to be conscious of that, but the tech already exist.

I have no doubt EVs are the future but I have one concern that nobody seems to think about, price. When you pay a lot for a gasoline or diesel vehicle, you are pretty much guaranteed it will retain a certain amount of value when you are ready to sell. But battery powered cars may be closer to cell phones in how they retain value as charging capacities, software, computing requirements, and battery interfaces change over time.

For me, now that EV's are starting to become usable (space to haul around family and/or my hockey gear... EV's have been limited to clown cars until very recently) I'm really taking notice. The last thing they have to do is to show their reliability over the long term. Depending on this, my next car purchase could be a Tesla model Y or something similar.

And I think here in The United States at least, that's why manufacturers are waiting until 2025 to come out with so many new models. That will allow for the time needed to show proof of concept. Here in the states we are a little behind the curve as it pertains to EV's compared to much of Europe.

It seems that in the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries we were a nation who thrived on leading innovation and showing how we can. Lately it seems we have turned into a country who makes excuses as to why we can't.

Oh, that's cool.

Your sounding more like my wife every day Pit



Please show me and everybody else where I said that. Dropping cars from their lineup for 4 years is what I called stupid. Putting all your eggs in one basket by making ONLY electric cars when the infrastructure is not in place yet to support them is stupid. Pretending that they will have the problems with mileage range and charge times is stupid, as they may or may not be ready in 2025.... well make that 2024 as GM's model year changeover is in Sept.



OK Bennie


You either don't care, or didn't see that I posted I was wrong about the six to eight hour charge time. I'm going with you didn't see it.



I am comparing them with what is possible today, and posted a link that proves it, and is fact. Hell you can claim anything you want for in the future but that does not make it true or a fact.



Once again your making something up. SMH That's beneath you bro. Did I ever say they won't work? I will save you some time bro. No I didn't. I said they need to increase the mileage, and decrease the charge times before they start mass producing electric only vehicles. They also need to get the infrastructure in place with so many more charging stations. You know the old saying man. They are putting the cart before the horse, when everybody knows the horse goes before the cart.

Your turn buddy

who? Must be a boomer thing.

I was thinking along those lines, of implanting wireless charging into the interstates for long drives that could charge while you drive, increasing range.

It's almost something that will be required for long range driverless trucks.

Someone else said it above, that EVs are finally stepping into the real world and moving away from the tiny, and IMO hideous looking, cars.

As they become to look more like our typical models, they become more enticing to the average consumer. Add in that EVs reduce the number of engines, drivetrains, etc, and parts can be much more interchangeable between models, making them cheaper to produce. Every unique part a manufacturer has to buy, store and assemble adds to cost.

Maybe I should have talked about sponge Bob, and Bubble Guppies so you could keep up.

These quicker charging times and added mileage are already in the pipeline. It's not some futuristic idea. That's been shown to you already.

And once again, you seem to pretend that charging stations won't be provided for something that is becoming more and more popular. Pretending supply and demand won't catch up or isn't a thing isn't a practical viewpoint.

That idea has been tested to utter failure in Europe. And they also tested solar panel highways and they where terribly horrid as well, they couldn’t even hold up to bicycles. And after all that they discovered a 10 min stop to pee and charge was enough to go another 70 miles. So why?

The best idea IMO, they came up with was using donor vehicles that had huge batteries that moved along with traffic for recharging on the move.





But the same thing applies. If you can get 50-70 miles out of 10 min charge. Why?

I think the financial feasibility of wireless charging or mobile "refilling" stations that travel the roads would be a deal killer from jump.

But I could easily see a common power plant battery system where cars all have the same interchangeable units and charging stations just charge a flat fee to swap out the "batteries" in a few minutes and you are on your way. Basically this would be like gas stations now, but instead of storing and selling gas, they store and recharge batteries and swap them out for consumers. And this could easily be done and leave plenty of room for EV manufacturers to innovate better systems if the units were more like universal fuel rods that insert into the batteries and configurations developed by big auto.

Think of this in terms of usb charging. All the batteries that use usb ports to charge, use universal "standard" adapters to connect for charging. If all battery configurations used the same "fuel rods" inside their battery systems, then pre charged rods would be the equivalent of a tank of gas in the new EV car economy. This would eliminate the need for charging stations and much of the cost/need of a home charging station.

Rechargeable cordless tools that run on battery packs work like this now. If you have one battery, you can use the tool until the battery drains then you have to wait until the battery recharges to use the tool again... but if you have multiple batteries, you just swap them out and keep using your tool while the used one recharges. Also, each cordless tool (in a set) is different but uses the same battery and connection interface.

Just my thoughts.

I really don’t see a automobile battery swap in less than an hr. But who knows what the future could bring? Electric forklifts swap out and recharge that way but I know it takes time to swap out because of the weight and safety concerns. And cars are out in the weather? They seal those up really good.

They have been shown that they are working on them, not that they are complete. What has been show to you is the link I posted showing that in 2021 8 of the TOP 11 cars are in the 200 mile range (225 to 295) and that charging still takes a while 22 minutes to 32 hours.



and pretending like they will be is a recipe for disaster. As of today there is not one charging station in my county or in six of the neighboring counties.

Yeah I don't see the swap as being feasible.

The weight of the batteries, the size, and then the storage of expelled and charging batteries on a scale of a highway rest area? That would require very large storage area and a lot of man-power, equipment and work bays.

At best a system where the manufacturers agree on a specific size and mounting of the battery, that uniform across all vehicles and under the car, but accessible from underneath, that could be automated. But we would be years if not decades from that.

The simplest solution is just rapid charging. Plug in and in 5 mins you have a 200 miles charge. How far away is that, and how safe would it be for the consumer to plug in themselves, or are we back to the service attendant days?

How many times a year do you drive a vehicle more than 200 miles in a day? How many vehicles do you own?

The answer to those questions alone show that having at least one EV makes sense for most people.

The only problem I see is cost of an ev. I would be a perfect candidate since I rarely ever drive over 200 miles in a week,let alone a day. The thing is my wife does and we can't afford to have the payment for a second car. The thing is I might be able to afford a used one years down the road but what is it going to cost to replace the batteries? From what I understand they have a much shorter life cycle than the car itself, and they are very expensive.

As much as I would love to own an EV it won't be cost effective to until prices come down.

Yeah, it's certainly not going to be practical for everyone. At this time from everything I've seen the average battery life is about eight years.

I think as with most things as production ramps up costs will come more in line.

I've never purchased a car new, and probably never will. As such, I'm curious to see how these newer (translation: more usable) EVs do after 5-10-15 years of use and a couple owners. What do the repair bills look like when you've gotten past 100k miles?

Every time I have to go to Cleveland or Sandusky to see one of my Doctors or go to the Hospital. Also anytime we travel to see family in Kentucky, Columbus or Cincinnati. We own three vehicles. My wife's car which she uses for work. My car, and my motorcycle.

There are many people working as sales reps who routinely put 40-50,000 miles a year on a vehicle. Be it theirs, a company vehicle, or a rented vehicle.

Maybe not so much the rented vehicle because they fly to a point then rent a vehicle to call on customers or potential customers.

You should lower your carbon foot print and get a E-bike

So it would be quite practical to own one EV in your family. Like I said, as of now they don't replace every vehicle for every reason. But for most families and their every day use, one EV in their family would be very practical.

I may end up doing that, but with my wife now retired we are weighing the possibility of only having one vehicle. I am a morning person and she is a afternoon person. At least thus far we have found we really don't need 2 cars. I guess it just boils down to if you Had to do something and the other had the car you would be stuck unless we Ubered.

Right now, we need range. This covid deal has screwed up the road trip plans we had once she retired in July.

A Subaru Outback is what I have settled on. Looks to be a perfect fit for the 2-3 week roadtrips we want to take over the next few years. A EV just doesn't cut it for us at this time. I am not going to spend near $40,000 on the Outback and spend maybe another $25,000+ on some EV we will only use around town which usually amounts to a grocery run or something like that, which is usually inside 5 miles of the house. Maybe 10 miles tops.

I will purchase the Outback and keep her 3 year old Sentra for kicking around locally. The Sentra is a nice car with all the bells and whistles, but that is her car. It's not the kind of car I am going to sit my fat ass in and go driving around the country for 3 weeks.

Yeah, I've never tried to claim it was for everyone. At least not at this time. The thing is, at some point that Sentra will get old.

Like I said, we don't drive as much anymore. Add in the fact we have always kept cars for 10 years before getting a new one, I doubt it will get that old, at least mechanically. I can easily see that vehicle not picking up 600 miles a month.

E-bike and peripheral neuropathy don't mix

How would it be any different than you jumping on your motorcycle for a ride?

maybe not on the President, but it's from his wing and shows the mind-set of these people.

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/repor...-sworn-congress

You have to remember, Pelosi nearly had members wrapped in bubble wrap to be on the floor for the vote to confirm her as Speaker again.