DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum OBJ, torn ACL

His current contract runs through 2023 (so three full seasons), so I don't think it would necessarily be about extending him but I suppose it could be. But it might result in adding more guaranteed $$ as it would cost the Browns $0 in cap hit to cut him in 2022. I'm assuming because the guaranteed dollars have already been given out, whether by NY or us.

Hmmm... perhaps "fan" is getting read into too much here. The local writers for a team, at the least, shouldn't be against the local team. They shouldn't be more for some other team than the one they report on, and their sole interests definitely should not be in seeing what sort of crap storms they can stir up.

The money is the money... it's all salary over those years, so the cap hits are gonna be what they are. If you add a year or two, then you can begin taking advantage of lowering his cap hits.

If you restructure, it is a new deal, and all new guaranteed dollars get prorated over the duration of the new deal. So, he will go from being a $0 hit if cut next year to a major cap hit.

The other hurdle is that without adding years, any new/restructured deal is likely to result in a LARGER cap hit this year... unless you can somehow convince him to take a pay cut; which I doubt.

"Don't be a Grossi" is what I say. Local beat reporters shouldn't be against or antagonistic towards the team. There's a fine line between that and legit criticism.

Watching his rehab video brings back painful memories of my ACL rehab. Man did that surgery, recovery and rehab SUCK! I do remember being in the same rehab facility as a semi-pro football player and watching his rehab and how it was totally different than mine. He was at a 90 degree knee bend WAY before me.

Don't you think it's odd that when it comes to Baker they blamed all of his problems before this season on our former coaches, but when it comes to OBJ all of hos problems rest squarely on his own shoulders?

It's not about the uniform, it's about who's wearing it.

I suggest people give OBJ the same luxury they afforded Baker and give him a full season with Stefanski.

Half the league is hurting for cap space, so your market of trade partners is already smaller than you'd want. Then, he's coming off an ACL injury. Then, he'd still be a big chunk of dead money. It's a buyer's market for trades and we still take a hit if he's traded.

Nobody is going to give up enough for him to make saving only $3 million worthwhile. There's almost zero upside to a trade of OBJ.

This is a good point.

This is confusing. The only thing being discussed is his injuries, the time he’s missed, and his contract. No one is blaming him for them.

or we can just keep OBJ and make sure our offense remains a massive threat.

If OBJ only has one more year on his contract, cutting him would be foolish. Getting rid of proven talent is foolish. I say you keep him thru his contract, and see how it goes. As far Baker being better without him, I don't believe that. Baker had an epiphany, turned the corner right about the time Odell went down.

People claim they had no chemistry, but Baker was horrible at the beginning of the year. He was inaccurate, and that was not only with Odell. IMO, Odell wasn't the problem, Baker was. To his credit, he learned a new offense in a year with no offseason and new scheme and coaches. The light went on, and I truly believe that if Beckam was still playing when that happened, he would have went off also.

Odell is a threat that is not taken lightly. That means a lot to the whole offense.

Jc

How much was Odell double teamed compared to the rest of the WRs? Pretty sure that plays into things.

The Browns are rarely #1 in the NFL in any good category.

The Brows 2020 team rushing yards per game were #1 in the NFL for at least 2 of the 6 weeks that OBJ suited up, and they were not #1 for any of the weeks he did not suit up.

I think, He kept safeties back.

Edit to clarify: They did not achieve the top spot of #1 in the league in rushing yards per team, at any point of the season after Beckham's injury.

I see no value in trading OBJ, what he brings to the table far and away outweighs any deal we could make IMO.

The issue was Baker no question in my mind on that. If he would have been healthy in the second half of the season I think we all would have seen Baker and OBJ take the league apart. Baker grew unbelievably in the second half of the season. He still has issues, but is clearly on the upside of his growth.

If we were to let OBJ go we would be looking for someone else that brings what he does to our offense, that said why would you even entertain sending him to someone else?

If Berry ships him out of Cleveland (doubtful) I am going to think he isn't nearly the football guy any of us think he is.

The money and OBJ aren't factors IMO.

Regardless what the numbers say of before OBJs injury and after. I at least can't say with certainty it was his presence versus continuing to get accustomed to the new staff, system, etc.

j/c

If the Browns could get out from under OBJ's contract without a ridiculous cap hit, do you think they would do so?

I would say yes.

Would the Browns like to see OBJ here, but under a more-reasonable contract?

I would say yes.

Neither of those two things will happen this year.

There are no guarantees or dead money in OBJ's contract. Getting "out from under it" is not a problem. It's whether it's worth it to trade away a highly talented player based on a few games.

For reasons that are beyond me, a few folks seem to think OBJ had something to do with 2019's horrid play calling.

To my understanding:

When OBJ tore his ACL, his 2021 contract became fully guaranteed (including cap hit)...unless he clears rehab/IR prior to the new league year starting.

OBJ has no dead-cap hit for '22.

If he's traded, his contract goes with him...who pays the $$$ is negotiable, I suppose.

I don't have a problem if the team decides to trade OBJ, I'll trust their judgement, but some of the scenarios out there by different writers are down right funny. Saw one a couple of weeks ago of us trading OBJ to Tampa for a 1st plus a late rnd pick, then yesterday I seen a story from a Detroit writer that had us trading OBJ to them for just a late rnd pick and a backup CB. LOL

If he is traded his whole salary goes with him and we pay nothing. When a player is cut or traded their unpaid bonuses become dead cap for the team that trades them. That means the Giants already assumed all of OBJ’s potential dead cap.

I agree on the bonuses part...or I should say that that is how I understand it. I believe the team unloading the player can negotiate to pay the salary (or part of it) of the departing player...maybe not.

I also believe/understand that OBJ had no '21 dead cap (due to the Giants having to eat the bonus)...until he went on IR.

Since he is on IR, they can't cut him. He won't come off IR until well-after the new league year begins...so his '21 salary is guaranteed. It is not equal to dead cap, but it is essentially the same regarding his '21 salary.

Or so I understand it.

The $12.8 million in "dead cap" on spotrac is ours. It is the guaranteed portion of this year's salary. Once that is guaranteed on March 19th, it *is* Dead Cap. It is a cap charge that is stuck to us whether he is here or not... that's the definition of Dead Cap.

We cannot cut or trade him before then; not until he is healthy... SO, ANY trade will only net us a savings of $3 million this year (the unguaranteed portion of his salary, plus bonus & workout money). We will be on the hook for $12.8 million no matter what. Given that, do we REALLY need to free up $3 million so bad that we give up on what he brings to the offense?

Nope.

JMHO, what he brings to the offense can be debated....his personality and "need for the ball" plus his temper tantrums...he's not my favorite player by a long shot. Getting on a home town writer for doing his/her job ain't right. They should offer up opinions, read it, evaluate it, and move on. They just speculate about what could happen, just like fiction writers....enjoy. I'm not sure OBJ is the asset everyone assumes he is....and he can't stay healthy...availability is HUGE...as the Chiefs how important their tackles missing cost them...GO Browns!!!!

Unless we are overwhelmed with a trade I would keep OBJ. Let's see if he and Baker can get some chemistry. Let's se if he can stay healthy. Give it this season and then make a decision next year. JMO

From my POV, the only justification to keep or trade OBJ is productivity. If he was consistently scoring two TDs a game, every game... this would be a no brainer. But if the data indicates his productivity is not worth the continued investment, or that the team suffers in some way for him being on the field... then moving on should be a no brainer was well.

I don't personally 'like' OBJ because I think he is a distraction, a diva, and overrated... BUT I wouldn't trade him at this point either. I think we should all see how well this next year goes before we even consider that. With Baker looking like he's finally come into his own, with the team looking like it's ready to be an annual contender for the foreseeable future, with the coaching stabilized, and finally an offseason where Baker and OBJ can get into a rhythm... it's just crazy to trade him before you see if that bears fruit.

Well said. I'm very curious what him and Baker will look like now that everyone is more familiar/comfy in the offense. I'm guessing/hoping that a lot of the lack of being in sync that we were seeing early in the year before OBJ went down will magically disappear now that Baker seems to have gotten his head around the offense and is more comfy.

Yet that's not the way it's been reported that any of his team mates see him.

That is true...but if they DID see him that way, they would not say so publicly. He's earned his rep via the media...even if it's not correct. I don't care.

We won't be able to trade him now even if we wanted to...and as Purp said, the $3mil we could save by cutting him isn't worth it/that.

Now, it is my opinion that...had he not gotten injured, there is no way we would have kept him at his current contract number for '21. He'd have been cut or re-structured. But the point is moot...or should I say more moot.

They may not speak out against him in public, but then they wouldn't speak out about what a great team mate he is either. Which many of them have.

As far as the rest of your post I don't think any of us have any idea if they would have "kept him at his current contract" or not for 2021.

Baker made a huge turnaround during the second half of 2020. I attribute that to both Bakers hard work and Stefanski's coaching. How that may or may not have impacted the Baker/OBJ connection is anyone's guess and that would make the worth of OBJ a huge variable. To me that's a huge guessing game with nothing to validate either side of it.

clearly, you don't follow him on Insta. His teammates are always chiming in, liking, etc.

Way I see it...

Guy is busting his butt trying to get back on the field. I truly believe he's bought into the Stefanski/Browns way.

There is also, given he's not going to be healty by the beginning of march. Browns are going to take on most of his salary this year too.

THe guy's a world class WR. You're not going to get a much better receiver in the draft. It also allows us to address other positions of need too. Give Baker another year of working with him. Along with Stefanski and Co.

If he performs at the level he has been these past 2 years. it's not going to hurt us. If he goes back to the guy he was in NY, then our Offense is just as potent.

He's not actively harming the team any... I don't see any reason to move him.

If he's unhappy, thats another thing entirely. But he doesn't seem to be unhappy.

I agree.

My opinion is we need to put this talk to rest. Why would other teams trade for him at this point unless we were simply giving him away?

This is one of the strongest, deepest receiver drafts in years (one we probably best tap in to at some point) and you get them on rookie contracts.

Beckham isn't on a rookie contract and he is currently rehabbing from injury. If he wasn't on the Browns, how would people feel about trading for him considering the facts at hand? Other teams front offices aren't full of fools, as much as we would like to think so.

I mean, everything has a price but overall not good. But it goes beyond last season. The guy has been injured each of the last four. That's alarming.

...why not both?

This is the correct answer.

JJ, no brainer.