DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Clowney

Bone.....

I've seen every game since the early 60's. Even the blacked out games in the??? early 90's. Bar off I-480 and State Rd pirated them. Even the police were there watching it.

All I gotta say is.....

I don't know if the same is true among other fan bases. Browns fans have a tendency to expect immediate contributions from players, even third-round selections if they don't get production immediately. There is a tendency to write a player off. What the Browns organization has done in the past and some fans have condoned is fail to be patient enough to develop guys. Over and over this has been a patern. We're done it with Njoku, Teller, Peppers, hell, OBJ and Baker too. Elliott may not work out but at this time the composition of the interior D-line is deep enough to wait and see.

Here's a scenario nobody is considering. I was talking to my cousin about Clowney and the team's approach to the draft came up. Every year my cousin wants to add a big-time offensive weapon so predictably he mentions Kyle Pitts while we're on the phone. I'm sitting at my PC while we talk. So I go to Profootball Network's draft simulator and start a draft. Pitts fell to 12 and I offered picks 26, 59, 91 and next years 2nd rounder to the Eagles. If the simulator could accommodate a player trade I would have offered Njuko instead of the 2022 pick. Anyway, they took the deal and we draft Pitts. As far fetched as this might seem, I think I'd do this on draft night.

Far fetched is being too kind.

No harm in an ask.

Give me 3 defensive players, injuries happen and depth was lacking.

NJoku is so dialed in... it'd be a disservice IMO to trade him.

I would think it would be a mistake to think that Richardson would be the lone player asked to shoulder the Clowney signing.

Richardson in my view is one of our better most reliable defenders and a real asset. I love the guy so I am biased. That said at some point I think the Browns who overpaid last season for Hooper will take more then a few glances at his salary -vs- Njoku. IMO Njoku is the better player who has had health issues thru most of his career and at this stage is the better talent between himself and Hooper. His ceiling is higher and in every measurable he grades out better.

Will all know better after the draft, will the Browns draft cheaper at say WR which is very possible. But there like at all times will be changes. The same can be said on the O Line we have Callahan who has brought along every player we have brought in.

I guess my point is there are many places we could look to cut salary and not skip a beat. I think it would be wrong to cut Richardson's salary and not include and employ some other options?

This whole Pitts thing is whimsy on my part (can you say whimsy while discussing pure football?), IDK. Anyway, it would limit roster options. It might mean not getting another interior DL to play 1-tech behind Billings. It would also move the team down a tier or two about adding Cornerback help but this draft is pretty deep with Corners.



I was impressed with Njoku's development, especially late last season. But I've been persuaded that Pitts may be the most special talent at TE in the past 20 years. Five years of control on Pitts would be very enticing. Stefanski loves TEs and Pitts is supposedly other-worldly. Staying with my conjecture on Pitts for a moment, by adding him you could trade Njoku in a separate deal and recoup some draft assets.

Again this is SWAG, nothing more. This would be hyper-aggressive Andrew Barry trying to win the ship this year!

Honestly, this wasn't even my idea. My cousin hatched this and I just ran with it.

Hard to exaggerate my enthusiasm at this point in the season which is pretty standard for me, even before drinking my weight in Kool-aid coladas, and this before the Draft! Stoked and more! Unconfirmed sources suggest some of these folks can even tackle and can get themselves off the field. Simply put{ Gamechanger. The ELF is alive and well for the season.

Hats off to Berry!

Juke won't be here next year.

Clowney only counts 3.8 million against the cap.

We have 10.3 million remaining for our cap in 2021.
-

??????

Pinky, are you thinking what I'm thinking??

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/jadeveon-clowney-14410/

He is only a $3.87 million cap hit this year

Yeah, he’s undoubtedly here for one year. I think we’ll even continue to look for one more impact free agent on D

Contract Notes:
Per Game Active Bonus: $58,823 ($1M, 8 LTBE)
$1M playing time incentives
$1M sack incentives
2022-25 years automatically void after 2021 ($3.6M dead cap)

All talk of needing to restructure or cut Richardson can be officially tabled. We don't need to do any such thing to sign our rookies.

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be an urgency/need to do so looking at the contract structure.

It depends on the incentives.


In reading past the point of my reply, everything looks good.

I love this idea but first let me say I am always working out "far fetched" ideas in my head knowing they are not likely to happen. It is fun and a way to help get the draft here sooner.

My ideas usually involve us trading back a little and getting a slew of high picks to do so. I will say this is a lot more fun when we are picking closer to to the top of the draft.

Man I hope you guys are right.

I’m just not a believer in this dude.

Still have a box of the Browns Illustrated, maybe 3 seasons worth as well as my Browns 1969 poster of Kosar and company hanging in my office. I hope this team becomes as exciting as that team was.

General response....

I don't like the love we're getting on the Clowney news. This guy could very well be Olivier Vernon all over again (overall, nowhere near as effective as hoped). Guy is always dinged and he's recovering from a knee procedure. He's the poster-child for the potential-never-yielding-the-results situation.

I do like the signing, I think it's a great move to address a need while being mindful of the shrinking cap situation. Very very shrewd. But the guy signed a cheap 1-year deal LATE into FA. The guy hasn't touched his potential and has actually regressed in many stat areas over the past few years. He HAS had someone on the other side taking attention away in his first few years in the league (Watt).

The people that started saying 'Superbowl' and such after this signing made me start rolling my eyes. I think expectations need to be tempered.

This is a concern for me as well....the injuries. However, I don't look at the two situations the same. One, we didn't give up player or draft assets to get Clowney, and two, we aren't paying him $26.5M over 2 yrs.

The injury issue is real and I think fans should expect that there is a good chance Clowney will be missing games.

Having a DE rotation is nice as a hedge. And Clowney's versatility to play on the interior is also nice as well.

We made the divisional round last year and have a better roster. What should the expectations be?

I never really have been either. I think most of that was weighing him against his draft status though. The biggest factor has always been him staying on the field, obviously.

The (over)reaction by the media is fine, but we were a SB contender before the signing. The media portraying him as some kind of savior doesn't match the price we paid anyway.

The ceiling is high and the floor is a one year contract that is only bad if he straight-out busts... Given the other talent (previously) available at the position, this was the move that made the most sense. We weren't about to give big contracts to Hendrickson or Lawson. We've improved the group and added a lot of versatility at a reasonable price-tag -- with no long-term commitment.

Bottom line, in one season's time, the situation has done a 180. This season, Clowney needs the Browns much more than the Browns need Clowney... if he wants any chance of a "ride into the sunset" type contract, he needs to stay on the field and ball out. Ball's in his court, after four teams in four years, it's time to put up or shut up.

Hoping to stay healthy and leverage the fact we have the AFC North third-place schedule that helps us try to make the playoffs. After that, anything can happen (good or bad).

When I think about Clowney, I don't think about him as a pass rusher, I look at him as a DE that can set the edge and stop the run. We don't have that and missed that last year. Myles is a great pass rusher but very average against the run, this helps both guys. I would like to believe that with Clowney on the team last year, a 900 year old chad henne doesn't run for 14 yards

We struggled defensively against the Ravens last year. This kind of move could be made as much for games against them as anything else. Clowney knows how to set the edge against the run, and can also help keep a guy like Jackson from escaping the pocket. Jackson is nowhere as effective when he has to stay in the pocket and make good decisions and passes.

We will almost certainly add another Edge in the draft. We want to be able to send wave after wave of pass rushers against opposing QBs. I am really excited to see our defense in action. (and we haven't even hit the draft yet!)

I see what you're saying, but we also came in 3rd in our division.

More specifically, though... I was talking about the expectations around what he's going to do for our D (not the team overall).

Bernie must have been pretty good to be playing for the Browns as a 6yo.

I like the signing and hope he can stay healthy. If he can we should have a great D. However, being that it is for 1 year and his injury history I feel we should still address D in the 1st round. Jamin Davis or Collins from Tulsa could be a very good pick. Because of questions about Greedy and Denzel we should draft another CB. Our D is not quite done yet.

I'd say the floor is that Clowney is the exact equivalent of Vernon. Solid against the run, but never really gets to the QB and misses some time to injury.

For his price tag, that already makes him a win vs. Vernon, to be honest.


That's the FLOOR.
The ceiling, to lean on his presser comments, doesn't really exist.... there is no ceiling. On paper, we have three of four DLine that cannot be singled consistently. Myles, Richardson, and Clowney will beat you like a drum if you don't give help now and again. If Malik can elevate himself to that level, then we have a starting four that all need doubled.... that is a nightmare DLine.

The reality is that opponents are still gonna get theirs. The mighty Rams DLine with Aaron Donald still had teams run on them. They still had games where they didn't get pressures or INT's... and this was with some of the DB's we now have. It's the NFL; even the guys that suck are pretty darn good. What we now have is a set of guys that can flip a switch and get after it when it's needed, or, they can play less aggressive and be more read-and-react and still make/create plays. Without superior DT's inside, the duo of Myles & Clowney alone has a ton of potential, but if we add in pressure from both DT spots while still stuffing the run, then those two become very very dangerous.

McKinley--Clowney(inside)--Literally anyone else--Garrett on assumed passing downs.....

J/C

I expect us to be in the hunt for the AFCN crown and be a playoff team.

I’m a little afraid about us having a negative point differential last year, despite our winning record. That usually doesn’t hold up.

BUT ... i think we have improved on D and our O will be more efficient too

Not so worried about that. Ravens 1 and Steelers 1 were 63 points of our negative differential.

We also had teams like the cowboys and titans beaten by 4 touchdowns and let them close the gap because we just didn't know how to finish strong..

So, one, I don't see anybody beating us by 30 points next year and two, if we learn how to put people away instead of letting blowouts become "we need to recover this onside kick" games.. we will be fine.

The floor is the ceiling.