DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Chauvin Trial

You're real concerned about the bad cops who have one second degree murder conviction to answer for.....how concerned are you for the 100s of unsolved murders in Chicago committed against blacks by blacks.....same thing happening in EVERY major city....yet the nightly story is about the less than one percent of bad cops.....NOT the thousands of unsolved deaths in black communities....BLM...if that one person is shot by cop....where is the outrage for all the other lives?

I completely agree with this. The good people of a group should be called out to not tolerate and do away with the bad apples amongst them. But when this line of reasoning was applied to Muslims and radical Islamic terrorists after 911, people who dared question why these people who carried out acts of terrorism in the name of Islam were tolerated among the rank and file, were labeled as racists and bigots.

In both cases we have people taking things to the extreme and labeling the entire group, and I think that's where the major problem lies. People sticking up for the good cops are no different than those that were speaking up for the good Muslims. Neither are evil people defending the criminal acts of the bad apples.

I find that deflection and irrational.

I'd like every crime to be solved and perpetrators brought to justice.

In this case - we have LAW ENFORCEMENT murdering civilians. . . just me but that escalates the attention I pay to the situation.

I've never actually understood this line of thinking. Of course everyone is concerned about murders, violence, mass shootings and everyone whose life comes to an end through violence in our society. You should rightfully expect better from the police than gang members and murderers.

But here is what the cause is of my confusion. When a person decides to become a police officer, they choose to uphold our laws. They make the choice to enter a profession to protect and serve their community. They place themselves in the position to be accountable for a higher standard than your average citizen. They certainly have decided to place their conduct under the microscope.

One would think that at the very top of the list the police are in a position where "we should expect" accountability. I mean if a portion of our population can not trust they will be treated fairly, that their life is on the line by the very people who are supposed to protect them, where do we go as a society?

The comparison you seem to be making is that we should expect equal media coverage and outrage about those who have chosen to commit criminal behavior by killing people as we do for those who have sworn to protect and serve their communities and enforce the laws, not commit murders.

And to carry that one step further, much like in the Chauvin trial where cops actually testified against him for what was right, we had many Muslims who stood up against the radical arm of their religion as well. In both cases we didn't see it nearly enough. But in both cases we did see it.

I agree. As a comparison, should we be concerned and rail against people who pollute the rivers? For sure. Should we be notably more concerned if reps from the EPA are dumping in the rivers? Absolutely.

[quote=northlima dawg

And I really did not expect the RIGHT thing to happen. I thought they would get him on the manslaughter charge and let him walk on the other two charges.
And if he would have walked on all three-boy would it have been ugly

[/quote]

The jurors knew what would happen too if he wasn't convicted on all 3. Makes me wonder if the evidence wasn't there if they would have convicted him anyway. Glad it didn't come to that.

There is ONE thing that has changed the entire way we see, perceive and think about this entire issue. One thing. The IPhone/Galaxy/Android phones.

Everyone and their left handed brother carries a video recorder in their pockets now. That video can go Nationwide in an hour. The prosecutors, the police commanders HAVE to be accountable or it's THEIR jobs. That teen doesn't video Chauvin? He goes free and Floyd is another stat.

Iphone = accountability

Apparently, the citizens got tired of waiting for courts, politicians etc to hold bad cops accountable, and decided to impose accountability themselves.

Wherever it comes from, it's welcome. I was raised to hold myself responsible for my actions and their consequences. Accountability. These people should be expected to meet the same requirements.

It literally took a man to be strangled to death by an officer over a period of 9 minutes to get a conviction against the officer.

It could be considered torture.

If it was not recorded, no one would have believed it. There is no explanation other than cruelty and meanness that could explain the actions of Chauvin.

That's my belief as well.. The police need to police themselves.. To hell with the Blue Wall... If police know that they won't be covered up for, they would be idiots to keep on acting is a manner that is against policy.

This is why the trials of the other officers are so important. Probably more important than the Chauvin trial. These ones speak directly to anyone that has ever turned a blind eye.

Don't get your hopes up any time soon. I mentioned this earlier:

- Without the 9 minutes+ of video, nothing would have changed.
- I've seen it reported a few times this was the first case that 'fellow officers' have testified and provided testimony that damned the cop being tried.
- I also quoted the initial report from Min PD - and how it totally lied and mis characterized the events in an effort to protect Chauvin.

Bottom line - without the video none of this happens. I guess it's progress because that's better than before. But to think the ONLY way the police are going to be held accountable for murder and abuse is when there is crystal clear video evidence taken by a 3rd party by-stander. I find that tragic.

While you bring up an interesting question there's nothing to suggest what was happening outside the courtroom that had any influence on the jurors. Or that it will in the future. But it's the same talking point the right wing media keeps furthering. In fact, they go one step further in some cases suggesting that's why Chauvin was convicted.

It's the old, "But what if" scenario that could be used in almost any situation to bring doubt with no substance to base a "what if" on.

Good points

First reports by the police in this case were before They knew there was a video,, as you pointed out.

But from this point on, Police will have to act as if there will be a video out there. Which erases your entire point.

Why would they do that? Why would they admit to something before they even know if evidence to the contrary exists? As far as I know there has been no punishment dished out for a false report. If nobody pays the consequences for filing a false report, where is the motivation to prevent them from being made? They will only admit guilt when the evidence is provided to show they are guilty.

Even then, after the video came out did Chauvin or any of the other officers admit and guilt? No, they won't act like a video exists until one comes out.

The action of Lying to the public then finding out that there is a video out there that contradicts statements made will cause them to think before lying about it at the very least.

We disagree. People overall tend to take a cops word for things. They are put in a place of trust and people tend to believe them. At least the white community by and large. The fact it was cops themselves that testified against Chauvin I think is a huge part of the reason he was prosecuted on the second degree murder count.

We live in a society where things are judged on perception more than actual facts. Just look at how the defense tried to use the fact that Floyd used drugs and had previous run ins with the law to justify his murder. Why? Because attacking the victim works. Without that video and other cops testifying, Chauvin would be a free man.

I'm not going to pretend they will simply give all of that up based on the conviction of one cop. Just look at how many times it's worked in the past. I'll let you figure out the odds of success of such a tactic from there.

Tell me why the overwhelming majority of African Americans are killed by other African Americans. What's being done to fix that? where are you on those issues and what are you doing about it? That's a FAR FAR FAR more important issue that doesn't seem to be getting enough attention and it pisses me off because it needs solving.

By the way, here are your statistics for total crime by murder, rape and other offenses. It's not the DOJ but FBI, the most recent I could find was 2016 done by an easy Google search. I don't see any outlandish numbers that prove police are targeting African Americans so there you go. Prove to me there is.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21

You need to stay on topic....

Is it right for the police to kill a disproportionate number of black/brown people just because there is a higher incidence of crime in those areas?

General crime statistics that you referenced has nothing to do with the fact police treat people differently in those communities.

But I will give you some insight or at least the perspective of someone that grew up below the poverty line.

A lot of it has to do with economic and education. I should come as no surprise that poorer communities have higher crime rates. The examples Native American, black and brown communities. Areas that have little wealth have crime. Poverty is the great equalizer and it does not care about your race or ethnicity. A person with a good job is probably not going to commit a crime and risk jail time.

My three oldest sisters were out of the house married and pregnant by 17, another married at 17. If you want to start off life behind with a lower chance of succeeding start your adult life with a child and no real education..

I had no idea people in those communities took an oath to protect and serve. I had no idea they took an oath to uphold the law. When you are breaking the very laws you took an oath to uphold you just set yourself to a higher standard.

Even though you get it you refuse to address it.

Hey, I've shared my national statistics which show comparable arrest numbers across races. It shows exactly what I hoped it would and it's something you can't argue with. By the way, I'm still waiting for you to share your information. Where is it? You're so passionate, where are the numbers, facts to back up your positions? I asked you to prove your points and so far you've done absolutely nothing except get emotional. Yes, there are racist cops here and there just as racist people do exist. However, it's not as widespread as you, the media, or social justice warriors are making it out to be.

In addition, not wanting to discuss black on black crime is a HUGE problem. Why don't you want to talk about that? You should want to. The majority of African Americans are killed by other African Americans. Instead of trying to conjure up the hoax that is systemic racism from police you ought to be looking at African American family structures, society, and how people are being raised, schooling. That would fix a whole hell of a lot of problems right there so get to it. Don't be afraid to talk about the real problems just because the media doesn't cover them.

When did our citizens on the street take an oath to protect and serve our communities?

You can't discuss that, didn't you know? You become a target.

Maybe it's because neighborhoods and police departments in every city in our nation have special boards and special parts of their departments already dedicated to addressing this issue. Then you have people like tasty acting as if it's being ignored. And once again, without you even bothering to see that what I'm saying is true, agree with him.

You also gloss over the fact that the police take an oath to protect and serve our communities. Then in an attempt to sidetrack all of that you go along with trying to compare the acts of the police with common criminals on the street. "Yeah! Instead of looking at those who sworn to protect us, let's talk about something else!"

I guess I am losing you, I don't know what you are talking about.

Probably because I am not as invested as you are in this conversation.

Maybe it's because you would rather post your feelings than look at the facts.

Every city has citizens groups against violence in their cities. Every city has special departments dedicated to gun violence in their cities.

Yet when the subject of those sworn to protect and serve comes up people wish to change the subject or divert away from it.

Fine...whatever....you win the prize.

And then Pit said:

Oh, you fond a meme! I guess that's better than actually addressing the conversation. It's all the craze on the internet these days. Did you have anything of substance to actually say? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Nah, I usually wait for your nap time. There is no "addressing" the conversation when you're in the room, it's more like a grade school he said, she said lunch table talk. Eventually everyone shuts up and watches you play pin the tail on the donkey.

The most humorous thing is that you can't see it for yourself... Must be the blindfold.

Then please show where and when the subject was changed and by whom rather than some personal attack if you can manage to do that. It appears you think being challenged in a discussion is cause for some personal vitriol. But I guess that's easier than trying to defend your position.

Focus FATE, focus.

There is nothing to defend. You change every subject, move every goalpost, distort EVERY post reply that is not in lockstep with your own.

Nothing to defend, no need to focus.

Time for you to get your last word though...

So I guess that means no you aren't going to show where the subject was changed in this thread or who it was that changed it. Just as suspected. Just more noise and no substance.

This is priceless coming from you. Everytime someone posts something you can't counter you change the subject.

Maybe you could start with hitt



But you probably are still looking to blame someone else.

BBC Anchor SHOCKED when former police officer Brandon Tatum refuses to follow leftist "Systemic Racism" script


https://rumble.com/vg00m7-bbc-anchor-sho...ystemic-ra.html

So yet more noise. Can you show where it was me who changed the subject in this thread? No, you can't. But thanks for jumping on the bandwagon.