DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2021 NFL Season 2021 NFL Draft Round 2.. The next move we should do..

I would love that pick.

I'm kind of hoping we trade 59, 89, and our Saints 2022 3rd rounder up to Jacksonville (or 59, 89, and both of our 2021 4th rounders to move up as high as we can) and pick JOK.

This said, I like staying where we are too and picking DT, LB, or DE (would be ok with WR too)

Didn't someone post something about JOK having some potential legal issues from an assault charge or something, or was that another player?

I need to go back through the Draft thread and look, but I could have sworn I saw that yesterday. If so, that combined with being a small LB, or just a Safety playing LB, may be why he is falling.... afterall, if you're going to play him at LB, why not just put another Safety out there?

I missed that. If that's the case, then maybe not...

But you bring up a good question.

Either of the Moore WRs would be GREAT with me

One person mentioned that he might have seen something on Twitter.

ok, so I'm not (totally) insane.

To come back to it, when I look at his measurements, I have to seriously ask: why not just put an actual Safety out there instead of drafting some "special" guy like JOK for LB? Seriously... what is the difference?

JOK: 6' 1", 216 lbs -- that's my size. Average NFL Safety measurements. He had a 10' 4" broadjump, no 40-time.

Sean Jones, for those that remember him: 6' 1", 212#, 10' 2" broadjump
Derwin James: 6' 2", 215#, 11' broadjump

The guy is just a Strong Safety that has been lining up at LB.

I think there is a whole different player and mindset and intangible ability for someone that excels up close to the LOS and is part of the 'front 7' versus someone who plays deeper and safety. You can make a guy play both but having equal impact at both slots is unusual. Guys like Polamalu who could do either completely seamlessly are once in a generation type talent.

It's just a Box Safety mentality... a guy that likes to hit and isn't afraid of run support.

If he can't stay on the field as a true linebacker during obvious run downs then he is not a linebacker. He is a safety.

In no Particular order see us taking a DE DT and WR today ...

Heck no the quality isn't there.
(Wait, I don't know, the quality may be there?????x-1 million)
Related, Maybe they could call Howard Wilson back at Cb, same questions. I'd say, even if you Do you don't know it yet. Big quality change.

I'm guessing your reasoning is that you, just as I am, wish to address our ability to stop the run and mobile QB's at this juncture. I totally agree with that aspect. From a physical standpoint he certainly seems like the perfect specimen to fill such a roll and at this point I am of the opinion he is head and shoulders above the rest in addressing that aspect.

As PPE mentioned there seems to be a rumor of off the field issues yet I can't seem to locate them. One thing for sure, NFL FO's around the league know much more information than we do on these guys. At this point I haven't seen anything that shows me there is validity to those rumors.

As PPE mentioned we could use a box safety to play the same role but at the same time I don't see anyone on the current roster that would match up to his ability. So would I object to such a move? No. Would I advocate and pimp such a move? No.

We are at a point in time that thinking of the immediate future doesn't help us achieve the long term goal. We have Clowney on a one year rental at DE. Developing someone to take over that spot rather than spend another 8-10 million next year to fill his spot is another move I would support.

There is nothing written in stone that says we can re-sign Richardson and even if we do, I highly doubt he'll be here next year. Whether we re-sign him or not I can also see the wisdom of having someone in the pipeline to replace him.

The fact that I consider all of the moves I've mentioned above does not make me feel all warm and fuzzy about giving valuable draft assets to move up that far in round two. As I stated, it's not something that would upset me and I could understand the move. On the flip side I could understand the wisdom in other alternatives.

"For those questioning JOK's presumed drop in valuation"

I believe that GMs are behind in their evaluations. What to do with the tweener? Is he a Safety? is he a LB? Yes... The special skill set isn't something that many teams have the luxury of drafting that early on day one. I am surprised he made it to day two. But, teams at the top of the draft are still looking for special skill sets to fill holes. If the pillars of the team aren't filled, then a special hybrid LB/S won't do you much good. Not to mention, 75% of the D-coordinators in the league don't implement such a player, so you better have confidence that he fills one or the other well enough that you have a full time starter. If not, you pass.

Or they could have picked him last night if he's worth that much. But no, if there is some real issue.

Or ^ it concludes they'd think Greg Newsome is 3 players better, (59,89, and a 3rd in 2022)
than any Cb they could find at pick #59.

If they made that trade now, Or they'd have just picked Jeremiah last night.

Unless Terrace Marshall Jr. Wr LSU is still on the board,
The writers,
The Cleveland media talked me into him, earlier last week, I would like him.

Someone posted that they heard he popped a + drug chest and had pending assault charges. I don't remember who wrote that and don't kow how reliable there information was.

If true then that certainly explains the fall, especially if that assault was against a woman.

If it isn't true, I would draft him as a strong safety. I think he could develop into a Palomalu type player if done right. Simmons went top 10 last year as a tweener/no position/multiple position player. Physically it looks like Simmons is 10-15# heavier but JOK is much more instinctual in his play per my opinion.

Jeremy Chinn is similar size and was drafted #64 but the talent discrepancy is huge. Coming out of college Chinn wasn't half the player JOK is.

J/c

I think JOK is falling because, for all the highlights, he has a fair share of lowlights as well. People are trying to sell him as the Lamar stopper, but he misses too many tackles. If he has highlight hits on first down and second down, but whiffs on a tackle and gives up a TD on third down, how valuable is that?

Lamar Jackson makes great tacklers miss. JOK missed something like ~17% of his tackles last season. link If a QB leaves a receiver out to dry, Owusu-Koramoah will stick him. If he's trying to tackle Lamar in the open field, I have my doubts.

I would still be on board with adding JOK, but he needs to cut down on the fly-bys.

The Ohio State Linebackers, is there a LB out there in this draft that can do it all.

Pete Werner, Lb, Ohio State, is the all around guy who can do all you ask.

Obviously info is limited, but I can't help but believe that GM's have something that explain JOKs fall.

Nearly everywhere the guy was pretty consistently being touted as a early teens type draft pick. For every team to pass and push him to day two is head scratching without something being a red flag.

Maybe it is just a case of he ND hype machine at work trying to fool the scouts and GM's. It isn't rare that ND players sound better then they actually play.

Manti Teo, please answer the white courtesy phone.

I wouldn't be surprised to see us go Milton Williams if he is available. His testing numbers are insane (https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/milton-williams) and he had pretty good production. He is a little older than we would normally take a player in the second round. His closest comparison based on his body type and testing numbers is Aaron Donald.

Those are serious numbers. So he’s got short arms, he’s fast and strong.

I like Ellijah Moore way better, a tonload of receivers more desireable than Rondale Moore.

Nothing good on offense ever ended up at Purdue, except maybe a qb, and maybe some offensive line.
Forget that though^.

Rondale's best time was as a Freshman, IN A YEAR, when you don't have to Reach, at Wr,
how could he possibly be the best option at 59.

Alright 11 Wr's go today in the picks before 59, and uhh he's the 16th WR to go, nd uhh. ya got me on a technicality,
NO, he's still probably
are there 11? not sure, there's a LOT, a lot of WR's to fall in love with before , I just don't like Rondale Moore if, to the Browns.
Terrace Marshall,LSU WR
Elijah Moore,Miss. WR
Ihmir Smith-Marsette,iowa WR
Amari Rodgers, Clemson WR
Amon-Ra St. Brown usc WR

I basically don't want Rondale Moore altogether, at least not until a later round (5), let some other team select him, I hope.

I would hope they totally moved on from Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, if there is a problem, then don't waste the gamble.

Rondale Moore Wr Purdue, Is he 5'9 or is he 5'7, 2 places say 5'7
It's becoming an issue for, I don't even like guys less than 5'11 at WR, it's got to be something to consider,
It's not like there aren't better options, (if his best year was his freshman year, ) that could be bad or good.
I hope another team drafts him, so the Browns have no opportunity to make a mistake, Time to move on.

Partly why I didn't like D'Wayne Eskridge mocked to the Browns by Kiper 2 weeks ago,
5'9 180 D'Wayne Eskridge, Western Mich Wr. notes- small, struggles w/ press coverage. 15 career tds, 3 star.

Moving on from HIM, but I still like him better than Rondale Moore. Just Me! Moving- on ugh.

I posted it, was reading it on twitter last night from quite a few people, I don’t know how reliable they were though.

I was extremely online last night and didn't see anything like that (at all) from anyone let alone a reliable source.

Imagine how good this team would be with a KR like Josh Cribbs ... Enter Rondale Moore

Rondale Moore is 5'7, same height as Jaelon Darden...which in size is a lot like our own Jojo Natson whom is tiny himself.

I posted a link perhaps a month ago, of a scouting site who watched every play of Rondale Moore and claim he has the worst hands of any of the WRs they scouted this year...but who knows, as I can't say I've seen a ton of him.

I saw Todd McShay talking about him and he said that he talked to several GM's about it and none mentioned any injury concern nor any character concerns. FWIW

Good, the Bengals pick a lazy OT.

Well Saint it looks like we got your guy at a bargain basement price. To me this puts to rest the off field issues. If there's one thing this FO does it's their homework. That and we both know unsubstantiated rumors run amuck during the silly season. Most likely someone floated the rumor and it was repeated by others.

Hopefully this will also put to rest the idea that the LB'er position isn't valued by Joe Woods.

I'm having visions of Murray to Moore. Glorious!

Or is that Frodo to Samwise? Ehhh...same difference.

Well I was pretty close
DT check, and double check if you count Marvin Wilson
LB double check
s check
backup swing tackle check
kick returner check
DE none drafted but we did sign Romeo McKnight
CB check
QB wait till next year

We may not have to wait on QB. You never know who is going to flush out from camp cuts. You can't automatically say the QB cut isn't any good.

Every team needs QB's but they can't afford to keep too many of them on the roster. That is a position many to all teams try to side a guy over to the practice squad.

As far as I know, Keenum is the only back-up at this point, and I think his position is safe for at least 1 season with a 3rd qb on the roster. We are a contender. I don't think we want to be in a situation where some totally untested player has to step in for Baker if he gets hurt.

Until we feel good enough about some QB we keep on the actual roster and not a practice squad position, Keenum is safe.

To me, QB is an important enough position we should keep 3 on the game day roster. I could always figure out how to cover for a guy who plays on punt cover or return teams.