DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Fauci Emails

I really do think you and I are pretty much saying the same thing.

I do think it's important to hold people/orgs/countries to account that need/deserve it. China seems to pull this shady crap all the time, and if they truly started a worldwide pandemic because they were goofing around with viruses and didn't care to use proper lab protocols, they deserve a smack upside the head and then some.

I think it's important to play the blame game now, as COVID hasn't yet been forgotten but we seem to finally be out of "the danger zone". Before, certain people were trying to wind up the blame game while Americans were dying. Were they right? Yes, it seems so... but when you're struggling to respond to the virus in your own home, how important was it to go after China? The answer is it wasn't.

I'd like to add motivation as a factor, too. Like you, I think we need to find out if it was China because yes, there should be consequences and yes, China does this gaslighting BS constantly whenever it does something wrong.

I think the problem is that the motivations have become political. I think many people are more motivated to show that Trump was right and that Fauci was wrong and/or hiding something.

To be fair, on the flip side, I think it was also a knee jerk reaction by those who just wanted to dismiss that it could have been China's fault based solely on the fact that Trump was making that allegation.

I definitely agree with you when it comes to the timing of when the cause and origin should be investigated. To me, it was a bad look for Trump to double down on blaming China when he was asked why he didn't disseminate truth about the virus sooner.

I think he would have fared much better if he had just said "Look, there's a virus coming out of China, we need to take it seriously. We're working on Operation Warp Speed. We're trying to figure out protocols and get an understanding." If he would have started on that foot, then he would have been way more justified on the back end railing on China, but that never happened.

I too think it's important to find out the truth. But the whole truth and motivation is something all together different.

Let's say, for the sake of argument it's found that it leaked out from a lab. Would an accidental leak mean China should be punished? Would an employee at a lab who accidentally carried a virus outside of a lab be cause to punish the Chinese government?

Now if it was some "sinister plot on the part of the Chinese government", I could understand that logic. But how could that ever be proven and doesn't that seem like it's a little far fetched?

And I guess that's where I find all of this confusing. Yes, we should know the origin of the virus. As of now they don't believe it came from a lab but are entertaining the possibility of it. And I would like to have a solid answer to that question.

I just don't think we'll ever know with 100% certainty and I'm quite confident we'll never know if there was motivation or intent.

I doubt we'll ever find out the truth either.

To answer your question, if it was an accident, then I would limit punishment to one commensurate with negligence. What I'm worried about, though, is that it was an accident that was covered up. If that is the case, the intentional cover-up, to me, is definitely a punishable offense.

I think it might be a far-fetched theory to think that this was developed as part of a sinister plot, but I do not think it to be far-fetched that China would intentionally cover up its own negligence.

Even if China plotted to create and disperse the virus it does nothing to change the fact that Americans chose to politicize how to respond. It's an established fact that national leadership knew at the start the virus was extremely dangerous and deadly. It's also an established fact that conservative media played it as a hoax and were more outraged by mitigation efforts than by the death count. It's also a fact that they did this in an effort to keep their president from looking incompetent.

And now the guy is talking to conservative conferences with his pants on backwards.

Yeah, I think what Pit, OCD, oober and I are all talking about here infers 2 different things that should all be independently considered, but largely are not due to politics:

1) The origin of the virus
2) The U.S. response

Even if China was at fault, it has nothing to do with the U.S. response to the virus once it was discovered. That has been muddled by politicians on one side to say that it's all China's fault, regardless of the U.S. response, which isn't true.

It has also been muddled on the flip side to say that it doesn't matter at all if China was responsible, which I also don't think is true.

What we're saying is that there are two things in play here that need to be viewed separately.

I don't dispute a word you said with the former administrations handling of the situation. Those facts are evident for anyone willing to look at them.

I just feel the issue of the origin of the virus and how the virus was handled here are two separate issues.

I liken the situation to a house fire. The question we're looking at now is how the fire started. The issue you're addressing is that when the fire department showed up to the scene, they just stood there and watched it burn. Telling you things like "it would just disappear". That it will "go out on its own".

I have always asked myself,what are the odds that this pandemic started in a city that just happened to have a lab working on the coronavirus.
The odds have to be astronomical.

j/c

So there was a couple articles about the work DRASTIC did - that was well written and informative.

Here is another great read from the Seattle Times:

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-worl...ecame-credible/

I have no knowledge of political bias of that media source - but the reporting is very good and factual with links to the events/articles they reference.

OF PARTICULAR INTEREST - there is an event from March last year that seems to contradict and provide proof that the previous article about DRASTIC is not accurate. In the Drastic article it claimed Shi Zhengli claimed that the Wuhan lab was not working on Covid/Sars strains of virus .... but this report with a link highlights that Shi Zhengli didn't say that at all:

March 11: Scientific American publishes a profile of virologist Shi Zhengli, who heads a group that studies bat coronaviruses at WIV. “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China,” she said. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “Could they have come from our lab?” The article said that after the virus emerged, Shi frantically went through her own lab’s records from the past few years to check for any mishandling of experimental materials, but she “breathed a sigh of relief when the results came back: none of the sequences matched those of the viruses her team had sampled from bat caves.” She told the magazine: “That really took a load off my mind. I had not slept a wink for days.”
https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...w-coronavirus1/ (link contained in the origin text).

So like everything else - choose your sources and 'truths' carefully and fact check.

At the end of the day, I don't know the truth. But I'm willing to listen.

All this BS blaming Fauci is a diversion... That's all that Newsmax, OANN, FOX have going for them....

Because it matters. It matters to the credibility of the WHO and the CDC and anybody else who would have shamelessly told us otherwise for the last 2 years. All those people running around saying "TRUST THE WHO" trust the facts, poo poo you stupid imbecile who think this started in a lab, shame on you for blaming the Chinese.


You think the Chinese government is above putting a few hundred thousand of its own people at risk to bring the global economic system to its knees? Pfft.

IMO the Chinese Gov would sacrifice 50 percent f their population if it killed off 50 percent of Americas population.

I agree. That makes it look like they didn't do it. At least in their minds.

I see three Trump supporters who seem to hope there is a there there... IMHO none of it matters because Trump IS SOLELY responsible for the craptastic job him and his minions did handling this. Blame China or libs if you want to, nothing will ever take the blood off Trump's hands.

And again, I see the importance for science and medicine, BUT NOT for the crying GOPers looking for somebody to blame instead of Trump. Trump did not create or spread this initially; he just lied about it, downplayed it, and tried to ignore it as it was killing hundreds of thousands of Americans. That can never be forgotten.

They are two different issues.

1. Root cause and origin of the virus. And it is important scientifically and possibly politically.

2. Trump's inept and incompetent handling of the response to the virus. I honestly think you could have taken a dozen posters from Dawgtalkers from all areas of the political spectrum and they would have coordinated a better response, a consistent message to the public .... and it would have saved tens of thousands of lives.

I can think of about a half-dozen who would have performed just as abysmally, too.

You know what might be a good idea... Put watchdog scientists in China to monitor their actions.. Oh wait, Trump took the ones we had there away.

Oddly enough, no pandemic while they were there, but suddenly, they are gone and BOOM.. A pandemic.

Some stuff on this board you just CANNOT make up.

That's even funnier if you read it out loud in John Madden's voice!

It's odd how on this board accuracy passes for humor.

Trump says China “should have told us” about coronavirus. He removed the official meant to do that.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/23/21190713/coronavirus-trump-china-cdc-embed-quick

The Trump administration cut a CDC position in China meant to detect disease outbreaks months before the coronavirus pandemic

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-cdc-cut-health-expert-job-china-months-before-coronavirus-2020-3

Exclusive: U.S. slashed CDC staff inside China prior to coronavirus outbreak

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-healt...k-idUSKBN21C3N5

I think there's a saying about the truth often being the funniest. Dude tries to substitute an actual fed Coronavirus response for blame game after he's removed people/resources that would've done just that.

This presidency will continue to boggle people's minds for decades.

Okay goalposts. So if we had members from the CDC in China, that would have prevented the pandemic???

Maybe try reading...


Apply your comprehension skills and tell me what that sentence means... Hint: It has NOTHING to do with your response and links.

I'll try explaining this to you as simply as I can. Many people have asserted that China purposefully unleashed this virus. With no watchdog there, that could have been easily done and hidden. So what has happened is that Trump himself removed the very mechanism we had in place to try and prevent this and then his supporters come out and make wild claims that China did it on purpose.

So IF people wish to claim that China did it on purpose, then what Damon said made perfect sense. Trump took away the only safeguard in place to prevent that. He opened the door for a viral attack by China with no way for us to verify what happened.

Now I think the entire idea of China purposefully unleashing a virus is foolish. Just another in a long list of crazy Trumpian conspiracy theories we see on a regular basis. But one thing is certain, if we still had those CDC people in China, it would have been far easier and more likely for us to determine the origin of the virus after the outbreak.

Man, you're just exasperating at times (day times, night times).

We'll try this one more time, let's see if you can actually answer the question... Here's the quote:


Soooo... If we had watchdogs there, that would have prevented the pandemic??

They would have caught the infected in a butterfly net and quarantined them before the virus got out??

In the words of Sleepy Joe -- "C'mon man".

No, none of the nonsense your mind dredges up is even remotely a factual talking point... wild tangents from the GOPer echo chamber solve nothing.

Let me simplify this so even you can wrap around it; The CDC was there for oversight. This oversight might well have not stopped anything, but it might have just as well stopped a leak if there was one. This is not a hard concept to grasp.

Then Trump, in his infinite wisdom, slashed those jobs to save a buck. Almost 600K are now dead in America from covid and one of our first lines of defense was discontinued because Trump hates science and facts.

There is really NOTHING more to it. It's not confusing in any way. It's not even debatable at this point because the facts are in. Any defense of Trump's actions in this is nothing more than delusional belief in the cult of Trump.

Context is everything. First you must read the crazy posts about how "China did it on purpose" that were being posted before this was posted. In the words of Trump, "We should boycott you!"

That's what I thought...

I'm not going to read the whole back and forth thing you and Pit have going on.

But just out of curiosity - are you trying to suggest that removing one of the oversights and safety nets that were in place was all cool and groovy because no matter what they wouldn't have prevented what happened ? So unless something could have prevented it at all - that's the only reason to have it in place?

I just read this one line and if that's out of context, apologies. But if that is your point I think maybe you might want to reconsider.

I mean - we can just get rid of hurricane warnings, tornado warnings and tsunami warnings right ... they won't prevent the event. We can also get rid of early warning missle defense systems too.

We gonna save a bunch of money here fellas. I smell tax cut.

Nope. Not at all. That's the result of Pit's constant shifting of talking points to make it look like a poster is saying something they're not. It's consistent in 90% of his posts, everybody knows it, everybody reads it. He creates arguments that never existed in an effort to show us all his intellect. He's a pretty smart guy, but much more of a savvy troll.

Daman says removing oversights caused the pandemic. I've quoted his outrageous statement several times now. It's absurd. That's all.

This place cracks me up. This conversation starts with me calling out a post that basically blames Trump for the pandemic itself, a few posts later people wonder if I condone removing oversight as if I'm sticking up for Trump. I said nothing of the sort.

Once again, let's look at the craziness he was responding to. Context is everything but you use isolation to try and twist things....



He was responding to crazy. As I said before yet you still can't comprehend it. The context of his reply was addressing the assertion that "China did this on purpose". It would have been nearly impossible for them to have done this on purpose if we were watching them the entire time.

It seems you are just having a problem keeping up.

Context; the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.

since you capitalized UNLESS... in order to have any kind of investigation to determine if it was weaponized or not... don't you first have to be willing to admit it came from a lab?

If you run around denying to the public that there is any chance it came from a lab, what is the motivation to do the investigation to determine if it was an accident or on purpose? There is none.

Gotcha. Some stuffed shirts from the CDC office in Beijing would have prevented Covid from leaving a lab in Wuhan.

Hey, if you believe that -- more power to you. Twist and turn the outrageous statement however you want, Trump didn't cause Covid. The primary job of anyone over there is to help deal with an outbreak when it happens. Not sure if you know how things work, but there's no problem to deal with until the outbreak already exists, I suspect you already know that though.

Keep tryin'.

Now who's twisting. Still fuzzy on that context thing i see.

I'm curious how you know this. I'm not saying you are right or wrong but we pulled basically 30 people out of their positions in an office building in Beijing.. so to say conclusively that they could have prevented an intentional leak from a lab in Wuhan, 700 miles away, seems a bit presumptive to me.

That's just a fairy tale to try to loosely tie Daman's outrageous statement to some kind of element of reality. Trump could have doubled the staff in Beijing, we'd still be exactly where we are today.

You forgot the second half of this line of thinking...

You're supposed to follow it up with, "but if any of these things do happen, someone's gonna have hell to pay! (after we figure things out using the resources we just cut)"

Conclusively may be a bit of a stretch. But I have FATE on a bit of a tangent and that's always fun.

We may or may not be where we are today, but we would know a lot more than we know today.

Really? Like what?

I'm done playing with you. A steel trap is hard to open. If you have multiple people on the inside you know a lot more than having nobody on the inside. Hopefully you can at least grasp that much.