DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon applies for reinstatement

As it turns out, you were the smart one here.

Can't let high drugged up people play games in the NFL, but, it's not my business who the NFL suspends or let's play.

It is not what goes into, but what comes out of a man that defiles him.

Defiles?

That is deep. **Scratching me head.

Not to interrupt the revelry, but I think that's a typo (replace the l with n)...just to be clear. Carry on...

No it's not an N. It's from the Bible, Jesus said it, and it's defiles or defileth but surely not define.

Josh's Answer:

https://nfl.com/gordon-appeal-070721/...html

Perfect for Gordon. I hope he gets another chance with some other team for ONE reason only- so he can support his children in some way other than taxpayers paying for their support.

You're presuming that's what he would do with the money.

I don't think Josh is a bad person y'all. All reports are that he is a decent guy but he has a drug issue. So football aside (I feel he's burned that bridge), none of this means he won't be a father or work for his kids. Hell amazon is hiring locally with no pot tests...

Deja vu all over again.

At this point I’m not sure he could even help a team, but I will root for him to finally overcome … though I won’t hold my breath

Just throwing out this elephant in the room (at least for me) about the JG marathon and yet another appeal. I wish him the best and success overcoming his issues.

How would the NFL serve itsself, its image, its reputation, and also The Game if Gordon was denied? As is, we can't argue about where the bar is set; nobody has seen it. A ban might be a deterrent.

My opinion is that it's great that they've given Josh as many chances as they have. But at what point do you stop looking like a compassionate entity to looking like an abused wife who keeps allowing her abuser to move back in over and over again?

Point well taken.

FOR ME, I never thought smoking weed should ever stop anyone from making a living so I think this conversation is silly and that is where the suspensions started.

I find it shocking as well that in this day and age we as a society still love to stomp the life out of someone for making a mistake. I feel no need to keep Josh or anyone else from making a living over drug abuse period.

I think and thought he needed help, he had issues growing up and I understand I fought some of those battles myself and I won those battles. And you and many others are making a huge mistake by trying to define Josh as a person for his struggles. I want him to win his fight and to go on and live a productive life, you and many others want revenge and that is a shame. We as a people need to start pulling for each other we are all any of us got and we truly need each other.

I am glad that someone in the league has the heart to care enough to want to afford Josh a chance and I don't care how many times he fails at trying to collect himself I still want him to have a chance because at the end of the day he is a human being, and it's what I would want for myself and for the people I love and care about.

I try to avoid these sort of threads because I find people in todays world are losing or have lost their ability to have a heart to care about something or someone outside their inner circle. It's time we started living up to who we pretend to be, and for me it starts by standing up for and by being there for people just like Josh who struggle yet need a chance.

We really don't disagree in some respects. I agree weed itself should not be a reason for an NFL suspension or the punishment by any employer. Sadly, weed is not the only issue here. Here's where we disagree.

Whether we "believe" or "feel" that weed as well as possibly some other drugs shouldn't be a banned substance, it is. And it is that way according to a collective bargaining agreement between the players and the NFL. The players agreed to this and it is a part of their contractual obligation.

So it seems what you believe is that people should be able to sign a contract, agree on the conditions of their employment, then never have to answer for breaking that contractual obligation. That a contract means nothing, your word should mean nothing and that somehow the fact you broke that contract the NFL should not follow the recourse you agreed to.

It also seems that you believe that no matter how many times someone craps in your yard, you should welcome them to crap in it over and over again. At some point you're out of chances. At some point it's up to an individual to live up to their obligations rather than try and point the blame for their actions on someone else.

For me this is simple he is a human being and you missed that.

Try hiding from being human it will catch up with you every time. People matter more for me then a contract and I don't think Josh has ever gotten away with anything in fact out of all of this who truly is the biggest loser?

Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.


I didn't notice this before but try living it and stop saying it until you actually mean it.

I don't really see it as a weed issue no matter ones position.

It's a issue of rules. A person follows them or they don't.

Unless the rules change, pot is off limits. I am all for giving extra chances, but I agree with Pit, at some point you aren't making a mistake, you are simply choosing to break the stated rules.

Josh has had plenty of chances. It's time to cut bait with that guy. Let him go play in the XFL or whatever the league is called.

I agree with some of the "Enough already" crowd. I want the best for him, but is there no limits? This is free country and we are all entitled to consequences. Is he entitled to unlimited chances and does he seem to believe that he can look past all guidelines? Limits are for everyone.

I am for due process and for second chances. He has had more than a reasonable amount of both. Nothing mandates that the NFL has to be the ongoing venue of failure, that it must put him back in and allow failure to compromise another team again.

I am for due process, but I oppose undue process.

I've been staying out of this discussion. I have no problem with giving 2nd or even 3rd chances. But Josh has had at least 10 by now, and he keeps breaking the rules. It's not about the weed for me, it's about keeping to the terms of the agreement. He has no sense of honor.

I don't care if the NFL reinstates him, so long as Cleveland is not involved.

JMHO, I don't understand the folks who sign him....their drug "experts" will keep him clean...right. When does the old "availability" maxim come into play. Yes, he had super human football skills....BUT, he's nearly NEVER available and TRUST, right.....Go Browns!!!

There is NO REASON why the NFL or any employer should be allowed to set in place rules that infringe on the personnel choice of anyone who works for them. They have no roll in public safety and the league itself has real safety issues but they don't endanger the public they endanger the players.

You guys want to talk about something lets talk about why it is the league gets away with these rules to begin with? and again I believe this has way more to do with exacting revenge on Josh then it does what's good for football and Josh, mostly good for Josh. Never lose sight that he matters and that he has value as a person, a human being. Not that it seems to matter he may have suffered a brain injury from playing football that causes him to have difficulty with commitment, reason, and a host of other issue that we all have seen come up from football injuries. But that is not what is discussed what is discussed are rules that IMO the NFL has NO right to impose to begin with and so lets toss Josh say a prayer tonight and feel good about ourselves because we are kind and compassionate beings who care far more about Josh then we do say our football team.

I don't think the NFL has a right to end anyone's career for weed or for that matter any other drug their a business and their business is NOT law enforcement. Employers in this country have been allowed to turn their employees into slaves to set in motion rules that strip employees of their right to privacy. I have worked for employers that test their employees for drugs and they fire people I think it's wrong, and it is if you believe in the rights given us under the constitution the one and only time I give a waver for this is when public safety is involved but this issue is far and away removed from that. But still we have worked society to the point that they think its Okay anyway and I disagree strongly disagree.

I think Josh matters far more then this stupid rule, and as a compassionate caring person I want him to be given a chance to get it together and be all he can be so maybe someday he can achieve all he is capable of achieving and the hell with anyone who thinks that its better that we enforce rules that the league set in place that I don't believe they should be allowed to have to begin with. But if you insist then lets be dead curtain that Josh's issues aren't a result caused by head injuries.

The way I look at it, Josh belongs to a players union that agreed to a contract, and as a member of this union he is obligated to abide by the rules of that contract. His elected peers took part in the negotiations and a majority of his fellow players voted to accept the contract. There really is no argument to support that he was wronged. It isn't some rights violation that was forced upon him.

Agree.

Do I think it's a waste of time to test for many of the drugs, sure. Let him Tony Montana mountains of nose candy, who cares, if he can still perform? However, there are terms of your employment that state otherwise and the NFL is ultimately concerned with protecting their brand.

I would protect my brand, too, if I just landed a $100B TV/streaming rights down.

Bottom line, Josh Gordon isn't bigger than the game, he had one big year 8 years ago and has lived off that reputation ever since. He's Sandy Lyle in Along Came Polly.

jc

The problem with allowing weed or other drugs is like JG did: Get high before the game. Pretty sure nobody wants to play a violent game with a high player. That is a potentially dangerous situation.

One other thing ..... Gordon has already admitted to many, many different drugs, some of which are extremely addictive, (I admit that I don't know the value of these) and since he is broke, I would guess there would be an opening for corruption if he couldn't afford hid drug fix.

I understand many of your points.

The fact is you are focused on the rule and not the rule breaker. You may not like the rule, but until that changes, you can't keep breaking the rules.

I notice that not a one of you will take on the issue that perhaps Josh has suffered a brain injury and that is the cause of his inability to make better choices for himself.

We see players having to end their careers or that end up living in their cars or under bridges or commiting suicide as a result of brain injuries suffered while playing football. Has it at all occurred to any of you that he may be a victim of playing football?

I also notice that you all don't or won't even consider that Josh has suffered greatly from his poor choices, in fact nobody has suffered more thru all of this then he has.

When is enough enough? Or is the thirst for revenge more important then any possible underlying cause of his issues to begin with?

We as people need to be far more compassionate and understanding and supportive of each other then we are, and this at the end of the day says far more about us then it does Josh. When did it become more important to exact revenge or to punish someone then it is to be supportive, caring, loving?

Many of us need to aspire to be who we think we are as apposed to who we really are and that starts when people are struggling, that is when we need each other most.

I am done here I have said my piece, I believe you most of you are wrong on this and I think you have a lot to do in terms of self evaluation, I really do. I don't think you are bad people I think you just don't look at why you believe what you do and see how that has negatively impacted all of our worlds.

Placing more value on Josh is where we all should be IMO not in some meaningless rule.

Come on...LOL...though I do agree he is probably brain damaged. At least brain challenged.

He had this problem in college. Probably high school.

If he is brain damaged, all the more reason to not allow him to play football.

The league has EVERY right to hire whomever it wants under nearly any condition it wants. It is their league, they get to set whatever standard they want.

However, to back that up, all of the players MUST belong to the NFLPA player's union, which agreed to all of it. So, the player's representation has also said it is ok.

Lastly, these conditions exist prior to employment. They all know going into it what the expectations of them are. They have Agents who only get paid if the player gets paid, so you know the Agent has also told them before they actually sign with a team or get drafted. The NFL uses, last I knew, the exact same drug-testing standard as most sports, which is also what the Olympic committee uses, I believe, and it is primarily in place to look for "performance enhancing" drugs, but added to that is checks for all illegal substances.


If Josh doesn't like it, he is perfectly free to go play in any other league. He could go to the CFL, the XFL (or whatever other startup there is) or any of the semi-pro leagues around.... but, he has to play by THEIR rules, too. In the end, he wants the biggest paychecks there are, so he keeps coming back to the NFL - and they still have the same rules they've had all along, and he still thinks he's above them.

And this is supposed to be an argument to allow him to continue to play football and further cause injury to the brain so he can have his capacity to reason reduced further??

All while then enabling him to continue to obliterate whatever connection to reality remains with narcotics?






Did you ever stop to think that the most compassionate thing for Josh is to allow him to feel the full and unrelenting consequences of his actions?

Sometimes, you just have to let the clown finish their act.
You don't help someone reach rock bottom by propping them up. Anytime that may have worked, ever, has absolutely been the exception - and Josh is no exception. Tough love is REAL love.

j/c

There is so much irony on this topic. I have two points about the NFL in Josh's (type) regard:

#1 - There are stretches of the year where the "team" can have no contact with the player...yet the NFL drug tests year-round. The team cannot provide support and counsel throughout the year to help with your demons, but the NFL can random drug test you. The "rules" are NOT set up to help a player...but to "catch" him screwing up;

#2 - I don't think the NFL has any right to hand down penalties for victim-less rule breaking. There should be guidelines that are out there but that exist for TEAMS to administer and/or follow...and those guidelines should be very, very, uber specific to avoid the (seemingly) usual nature of those NFL-level decisions.

Last comment...I'm amazed at the number of posters who support a lifetime ban in his situation and others like his. He hasn't hurt anyone but himself...he breaks rules, he gets suspended. If a team wants to sign him, they should NOT be beholden to the whims of the "NFL". The "NFL" pretending to care about the player(s) is a joke.

Again, you forget about the rules in place.

I may not like the rules, but it doesn't matter what I like. There are a lot of rules in games and life that I don't like.

Josh knows the rules and continues to break them. This isn't that hard.

My understanding is that the weed rules and such fall under the whole "protecting the shield" thing. Gotta keep that shield shiny. Nobody is arguing whether or not Gordon broke the rules, or whether he deserves the consequences of said rule-breaking.

What I don't understand is how that means we can't talk about the continued applicability of the rule, especially when it comes at a time when weed is steadily losing its standing among punishable offenses.

Beyond that, dude got high and submarined his own career. He had the NFL/world by short hairs... and somehow he's dependent on the viability of the XFL/CFL/whatever to make a living. I think keeping context as to what he did and who he hurt (not to mention the logic of a lifetime ban for a guy that very well won't play another snap in the NFL anyway) is what is trying to be argued here.

Dude has duped enough teams in the NFL. Any owner that gives this junkie a roster spot should be required to pay back teams the money Josh earned while with that team.

If the rule changes, and if it is ONLY pot at issue with him, then this is germane. Until then, though, it's really as simple as "The rule is there, and he broke it."
Whether or not anyone feels the rule shouldn't be there any longer doesn't matter right now. That is an aside and a completely separate issue from his reinstatement request. If the rule is gone the NEXT TIME he requests reinstatement, then it's a factor.... but it isn't part of it right now.