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Yes, everything would have turned out so much better if we had pulled out by May 1st. The deadline the former president set. This was going to be a mess either way sadly.
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If there was any doubt that the US was supporting a puppet regime, those questions were answered and are painfully obvious.
I think some of the blame game can be shared with the military and their approach and lack of intelligence.
But it needed to be done. It was a terrible situation with no good outcome.
I just hope that all the people who wanted out, get out. 100%. Was listening to a good slot on NPR today - one part basically said that for the last 15 years the CAI / Intelligence has had a very pessimistic outlook on what will happen when the US leaves, the Military have always had a much more positive view/expectation. I don't care if Biden asked the Military and left it up to them how to do this - it is a cluster f. and it's on his watch. It may have been somewhat inevitable ... but doesn't excuse the mess.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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Nothing excuses the mess as long as one realizes it was always going to be a mess when we pulled out no matter who was in power.
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half measures and diplomacy were always going to leave a vacuum and the Afghan military are supposedly better trained, modern equipment and tactics.. they lack the one thing you can't buy, intestinal fortitude and having to do it yourself. Obviously if we were going to leave, doing so on our own terms were we can move out and protect assets is alot better than what's happening now. The whole thing makes me sick. I spent alot of damn time in the rubble of that s-hole. Anyone thats been there more than 10 minutes knew that we were never willing or allowed to do everything that was needed. Its a shame and I don't think this is anywhere near over. I think we should at this point leave and let them all kill each other like they have their existence. 20 years is a minor inconvenience.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Nothing excuses the mess as long as one realizes it was always going to be a mess when we pulled out no matter who was in power. But that sounds much like the Trump apologists claiming Covid was always going to be a disaster. Trump could and should have made a difference with Covid response. Biden could and should have made a difference here. A very good snapshot I just heard - the biggest failing was treating this in a bureaucratic way and thinking we could handle the processing of all the allies bureaucratically instead of acting with urgency as if this was war time action ... sounds about right.
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What a travesty.
Obama 2.0.
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Then I'll pose to you the exact same question i posed in another thread. Can you name me one time in our history that nation building hasn't failed when we withdrew our troops? We still have tens of thousands of troops in S. Korea to make that work. We even still have tens of thousands of troops deployed in Europe. Ever since the end of WW2. Nixon failed when we pulled out of Vietnam. Look at Libya. Look at Turkey. No matter how you slice it, when you remove all of your military you leave a huge void that will be filled. There is no solution or scenario by which you can remove your military without leaving a mess behind. Especially in this region of the world. You just can't. There's been a huge power struggle in this part of the world for centuries. Thinking there was anything within our power to change that no matter how we left is not realistic. Secretary of State Colin Powell told this president [Bush] the Pottery Barn rule: If you break it, you fix it. Now, if you break it, you made a mistake. It's the wrong thing to do. But you own it. This is what Powell told Bush about Iraq. A place we had no business being in the first place. The same holds true for Afghanistan in terms of "breaking it". Our mission should have been to focus on Bin Ladin and Al-Qaeda, you know, our actual enemies and gotten the hell out. If I were to blame any president for not doing this it would be Obama. Once Bin Ladin was captured we had no business being there any longer. And it would have been a mess then as well.
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Biden about to get on the air and play "pass the buck" at 3:45.
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Yeah, we should have stuck around another 20 years.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Biden about to get on the air and play "pass the buck" at 3:45.
If he can remember what Country he is talking about when he speaks.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
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You need some confefe with your hamburder. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Biden about to get on the air and play "pass the buck" at 3:45.
Yeah, we should have stuck around another 20 years. 
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But unlike what you're used to, Biden will admit he made a mistake. And yes, no matter who was president, since Trump called for a total withdraw by May 1st, it would have been a mess either way.
Hopefully you can wrap your mind around that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Why don't you go or post or two without "whatabouts" and silly insults. I can wrap my mind around anything you dish out, no matter how much yours seems to be spinning.
I made a simple statement any human can understand:
"Biden about to get on the air and play "pass the buck" at 3:45."
Now you say he'll own up to his mistakes.
How 'bout this... Whoever is right watches the other take a week off of Dawgtalkers. If he does both, we both walk away unscathed.
Deal?
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How can you admit you made a mistake while not admitting you made a mistake? That doesn't make any sense.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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"Biden about to get on the air and play "pass the buck" at 3:45."
Now you say he'll own up to his mistakes.
How 'bout this... Whoever is right watches the other take a week off of Dawgtalkers. If he does both, we both walk away unscathed.
Deal?
I said he'll will admit he made a mistake. Now either he will admit he made a mistake or he won't. So this part makes no sense. Whoever is right watches the other take a week off of Dawgtalkers. If he does both, we both walk away unscathed. He can't do both and someone walk away unscathed. He either admits he made a mistake or he doesn't.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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He can he admit he made a mistake AND pass the buck... If he ever finds his way to the stage.
Ooooh, here he comes. This should be good.
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Biden: We're leaving. Sucks to be you Afghanastan.
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Well, I guess that answers that. Biden made no mistakes. It's Trump's fault and Afghanistan simply doesn't matter.
And talk about a bunch of conflicting messages. Dude needs a new speechwriter.
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I just saw a video of people falling off a plane that took off. Unbearably sad.
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Its incredibly sad. They did everything backwards. They should have evacuated the civilians BEFORE the troops. Now they have to send the troops back and it looks like stupidity.
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He admitted that the Taliban advanced much quicker than they expected. I guess you don't consider that a mistake. Of course you think the fact he lived up to an agreement made during the Trump administration should never have been mentioned..
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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And now he says he admits the mistakes made by him and the buck stops with him. See you next week.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You truly live in a world of make believe. What mistake did he admit to??
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Then I'll pose to you the exact same question i posed in another thread. Can you name me one time in our history that nation building hasn't failed when we withdrew our troops? We still have tens of thousands of troops in S. Korea to make that work. We even still have tens of thousands of troops deployed in Europe. Ever since the end of WW2. Nixon failed when we pulled out of Vietnam. Look at Libya. Look at Turkey. No matter how you slice it, when you remove all of your military you leave a huge void that will be filled. There is no solution or scenario by which you can remove your military without leaving a mess behind. Especially in this region of the world. You just can't. There's been a huge power struggle in this part of the world for centuries. Thinking there was anything within our power to change that no matter how we left is not realistic. Secretary of State Colin Powell told this president [Bush] the Pottery Barn rule: If you break it, you fix it. Now, if you break it, you made a mistake. It's the wrong thing to do. But you own it. This is what Powell told Bush about Iraq. A place we had no business being in the first place. The same holds true for Afghanistan in terms of "breaking it". Our mission should have been to focus on Bin Ladin and Al-Qaeda, you know, our actual enemies and gotten the hell out. If I were to blame any president for not doing this it would be Obama. Once Bin Ladin was captured we had no business being there any longer. And it would have been a mess then as well. I agree with the premise that America has no business Nation building or policing the world. I disagree that Biden gets a free pass on however it goes because it was inevitable. It was going to be a chit show one way or the other ... this is worse than it needed to be. AND it's on his watch.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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Its incredibly sad. They did everything backwards. They should have evacuated the civilians BEFORE the troops. Now they have to send the troops back and it looks like stupidity. THIS 100%
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You truly live in a world of make believe. What mistake did he admit to?? You know that they stuck with Trump's plan right - and that Trump's date was May right? I mean Biden owns this - but you, like Fish, crowing about it when you never once to my recollection uttered a criticism of Trump is just Hypocrisy.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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You truly live in a world of make believe. What mistake did he admit to?? He admitted that the Taliban took over much faster than he thought they would. Unless of course you're trying to make some bogus claim that isn't a mistake?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Yeah, even when I stated it in my above post he avoided it like the plague. I expect him to continue that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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LOL, okay, that's quite a reach that you think recognizing the obvious is saying "I was wrong". Besides, he passed the buck 179 times in ten minutes. Pound salt.
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You truly live in a world of make believe. What mistake did he admit to?? He admitted that the Taliban took over much faster than he thought they would. Unless of course you're trying to make some bogus claim that isn't a mistake? See I don't actually want to get into defending Biden or the administration as a whole ... but the whole operation was based on what the military on the ground said needed to be done. So Biden isn't going to say "I made a mistake because I thought the Taliban took over faster.... " .... Neither is he going to name specific units or divisions or specifically whose inteligence was wrong ... if he did he would be vilified (rightly). So what he said is precisely as far as I think he can go while saying that they all got it wrong. I don't even want to get into a Trump whattaboutism - but with so many Trumpers who never called out the last administration when they royally screwed the pooch, jumping up and down with glee that this is happening to Biden I do want to say say with complete certainty is that if this had been Trump's watch it would have been JUST as bad and possibly worse. And Trump would be on twitter and Faux News telling the world that it was NOT his fault and that his Generals are crap and there would be fingers pointed in every other direction.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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You truly live in a world of make believe. What mistake did he admit to?? You know that they stuck with Trump's plan right - and that Trump's date was May right? I mean Biden owns this - but you, like Fish, crowing about it when you never once to my recollection uttered a criticism of Trump is just Hypocrisy. Dude, you and your buddies act like every criticism has to have a Trump disclaimer attached. I said Joe would pass the buck... That's all. Me not being critical of Trump has nothing to do with Sleepy Joe screwing the pooch... and doing exactly what I said he would do.
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Once again I see you refuse to address that this was in agreement with the deal Trump went along with to withdraw. As I said you would and expected.
Yes, saying things didn't go the way you thought they would is admitting you were wrong. It's not complicated. But with your back up against the wall I understand how the only ammunition you have in response is "pound salt".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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... and doing exactly what I said he would do. Only that's not what happened. Just because you refuse to admit it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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Another one of those "We were wrong about the timeline" doesn't mean you admitted you were wrong people.
He wasn't wrong to remove our troops. It was actually honoring an agreement made by the previous administration. You know, honoring a commitment made by America. I'm sure after the previous four years that seems like a foreign concept to you.
Actually Biden said in his speech mistakes had been made and the buck stops with him. Did you even listen to it or are you just here spouting off?
The title of your own CNN source.
Biden admits Afghanistan’s collapse ‘did unfold more quickly than we had anticipated’
And why would ticking off our allies bother you now? Before you were always about doing what's right for America no matter what our allies thought. I guess the 2020 elections changed your mind about that.
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but the whole operation was based on what the military on the ground said needed to be done. You are assuming a lot in this statement. I'm not so sure we listened to the intelligence on the ground. I know in the past the politicians did what they wanted regardless of the situation on the ground. This isn't a swipe at Biden. If anything it is a swipe at politicians overall.
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You said he'd state he made a mistake.
He didn't say that. He said it happened quicker than they thought.
Even you should be able to see the difference. If you ever got your head out of bidens behind.
But I suppose in the next day or so, biden will run/trot/jog his skinny suit up to the mic and make some other comments.
When he's told to.
And Kamala is.............where? Giggling.
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I agree with Biden. there was never a "good time" to withdraw from a place like Afghanistan.
anybody on this board who honestly thinks any of this could've been prevented is fooling themselves.
this was ALWAYS gonna happen no matter when we left. a lot of y'all and people in the media are simply arguing in favor of the military industrial complex, and lack the awareness to realize that.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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